Their man made theology cannot be seen in scripture
An Article on free will
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Wrong
We have the parallel expressions
John 12:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 3:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
It's the same world in both passages. Scripture joins the passages and interprets the term world for us, but your theology will not allow that scripture interpret itself. Instead, it must be determined by your gnostic theology and so you never deal with the obvious parallelism
God causes me to visit each and every verse that you quoted.
As a reminder for you, for the definition of the word "world", you hold a death grip on "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ".
According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:
- if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
- if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
- The conclusion: Christ succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ failed in saving Nancy of the world.
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of John | |
| The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who fails to take away the sin of the world! (civic 1:29) | The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of Hebrews | |
| But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he ineffectively suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might ineffectually taste death for everyone like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God. (civic 2:9) | But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of Titus | |
| For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, even people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God but they enjoy salvation but they suffer punishment but they enjoy salvation-punishment (civic 2:11) | For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of Titus | |
| But when the kindness and the love of mankind which includes God-displeasing sin-immersed self-willed under the wrath of God people like Nancy of God our Savior appeared (civic 3:4) | But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared (Titus 3:4) |
Lord Jesus says "men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light" (John 3:19-20) in the immediately same conversation as John 3:16!
Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The word of civic | The Word of God | |
| For God so loved the world like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever loving the darkness hating the Light by self-will choosing to believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (civic 3:16) | For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The First Book of Free-willians | The First Book of Timothy | |
| Who will have all men to be saved, but God's will fails miserably with saving people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 civic 2:4) | Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Second Book of Free-willians | The Second Book of Peter | |
| The Lord breaks his promise because he is patient with you people like Nancy of the world who will never be a part of the Body of Christ, not wishing that any should perish but people like Nancy perish without ever coming to repentance. (2 civic 3:9) | The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9) |
Notice the phrase "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author, the First Book of John inspired by the glorious Holy Spirit.
You brought up 1 John 2:2 which shall be examined in a moment, and the other location is "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one" (1 John 5:19).
The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one, so current Christians are excluded from "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19.
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The First Book of Free-willians | The First Book of John | |
| He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing, Christ's atoning sacrifice fails for ones such as people like Nancy. (1 civic 2:2) | He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2) |
Crucially, you quoted where the Apostle declares THE LOVE OF CHRIST CONTROLS US! BEAUTIFUL CHRIST!!! But you free-willians absolve yourselves from being controlled by Christ.
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Second Book of Free-willians | The Second Book to the Corinthians | |
| For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died and now live in Christ, including people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing (2 civic 5:14) | For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died (2 Corinthians 5:14) |
You quoted your Calvinist god Loraine Boettner, and his quote reinforces that your Free-willian Philosophy abounds in confusion.
We Christians have a God of order, for it is written "God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the holy ones" (1 Corinthians 14:33).
Your blanket statements after you quote your god Boettner errantly coupled with your use of scripture are traditions of men.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE MY REDEEMER!!!
civic
Well-known member
Refuting you is easy squeezy. Like a sitting duck.
Faith does precede life, regeneration , salvation but its not Gods faith, its the faith that man places in Christ to save them.
See below from Jesus own teaching. After-all He is the Savior in whom salvific faith is placed in right ? He should know.
Jesus never once taught that faith was given , granted or a gift .He said " YOUR FAITH " has saved and healed you. Not the faith I gave you healed you.
Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( not the faith I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith (not the faith I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."
Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( not the faith I have given you ) has made you well!"
Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith(not the faith I have give you ) has healed you."
Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.
Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.
Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.
Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.
Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."
Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."
Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.
John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.
Gods universal love below :
See Barnes the calvinist below :
The world - All mankind. It does not mean any particular part of the world, but man as man - the race that had rebelled and that deserved to die. See John 6:33; John 17:21. His love for the world, or for all mankind, in giving his Son, was shown by these circumstances:
1. All the world was in ruin, and exposed to the wrath of God.
2. All people were in a hopeless condition.
3. God gave his Son. Man had no claim on him; it was a gift - an undeserved gift.
4. He gave him up to extreme sufferings, even the bitter pains of death on the cross.
5. It was for all the world. He tasted "death for every man," Hebrews 2:9. He "died for all," 2 Corinthians 5:15. "He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world," 1 John 2:2.
That he gave - It was a free and unmerited gift. Man had no claim: and when there was no eye to pity or arm to save, it pleased God to give his Son into the hands of men to die in their stead, Galatians 1:4; Romans 8:32; Luke 22:19. It was the mere movement of love; the expression of eternal compassion, and of a desire, that sinners should not perish forever.
See Calvin on John 3:16
For God so loved the world. Christ opens up the first cause, and, as it were, the source of our salvation, and he does so, that no doubt may remain; for our minds cannot find calm repose, until we arrive at the unmerited love of God. As the whole matter of our salvation must not be sought any where else than in Christ, so we must see whence Christ came to us, and why he was offered to be our Savior. Both points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish.
Even Calvin the founder of your doctrine refutes you
Next
Refuting you is easy squeezy. Like a sitting duck.
Faith does precede life, regeneration , salvation but its not Gods faith, its the faith that man places in Christ to save them.
See below from Jesus own teaching. After-all He is the Savior in whom salvific faith is placed in right ? He should know.
Jesus never once taught that faith was given , granted or a gift .He said " YOUR FAITH " has saved and healed you. Not the faith I gave you healed you.
Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( not the faith I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith (not the faith I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."
Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( not the faith I have given you ) has made you well!"
Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith(not the faith I have give you ) has healed you."
Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.
Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.
Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.
Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.
Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."
Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."
Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.
John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.
Gods universal love below :
See Barnes the calvinist below :
The world - All mankind. It does not mean any particular part of the world, but man as man - the race that had rebelled and that deserved to die. See John 6:33; John 17:21. His love for the world, or for all mankind, in giving his Son, was shown by these circumstances:
1. All the world was in ruin, and exposed to the wrath of God.
2. All people were in a hopeless condition.
3. God gave his Son. Man had no claim on him; it was a gift - an undeserved gift.
4. He gave him up to extreme sufferings, even the bitter pains of death on the cross.
5. It was for all the world. He tasted "death for every man," Hebrews 2:9. He "died for all," 2 Corinthians 5:15. "He is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world," 1 John 2:2.
That he gave - It was a free and unmerited gift. Man had no claim: and when there was no eye to pity or arm to save, it pleased God to give his Son into the hands of men to die in their stead, Galatians 1:4; Romans 8:32; Luke 22:19. It was the mere movement of love; the expression of eternal compassion, and of a desire, that sinners should not perish forever.
See Calvin on John 3:16
For God so loved the world. Christ opens up the first cause, and, as it were, the source of our salvation, and he does so, that no doubt may remain; for our minds cannot find calm repose, until we arrive at the unmerited love of God. As the whole matter of our salvation must not be sought any where else than in Christ, so we must see whence Christ came to us, and why he was offered to be our Savior. Both points are distinctly stated to us: namely, that faith in Christ brings life to all, and that Christ brought life, because the Heavenly Father loves the human race, and wishes that they should not perish.
Even Calvin the founder of your doctrine refutes you
Next
No thank you, I do not plan to stop talking about these verses that you quote which you adulterate that demonstrate your thoughts that lead to Christ's failure atonement according to your traditions of men a.k.a. the Book of Free-willians: John 1:29, Hebrews 2:9, Titus 2:11, Titus 3:4, John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2, and 2 Corinthians 5:14.
God causes me to visit each and every verse that you quoted.
As a reminder for you, for the definition of the word "world", you hold a death grip on "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ".
According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:
- if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
- if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
- The conclusion: Christ succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ failed in saving Nancy of the world.
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of John | |
| The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who fails to take away the sin of the world! (civic 1:29) | The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of Hebrews | |
| But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he ineffectively suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might ineffectually taste death for everyone like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God. (civic 2:9) | But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of Titus | |
| For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, even people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God but they enjoy salvation but they suffer punishment but they enjoy salvation-punishment (civic 2:11) | For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of Titus | |
| But when the kindness and the love of mankind which includes God-displeasing sin-immersed self-willed under the wrath of God people like Nancy of God our Savior appeared (civic 3:4) | But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared (Titus 3:4) |
Lord Jesus says "men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light" (John 3:19-20) in the immediately same conversation as John 3:16!
Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The word of civic | The Word of God | |
| For God so loved the world like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever loving the darkness hating the Light by self-will choosing to believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (civic 3:16) | For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The First Book of Free-willians | The First Book of Timothy | |
| Who will have all men to be saved, but God's will fails miserably with saving people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 civic 2:4) | Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Second Book of Free-willians | The Second Book of Peter | |
| The Lord breaks his promise because he is patient with you people like Nancy of the world who will never be a part of the Body of Christ, not wishing that any should perish but people like Nancy perish without ever coming to repentance. (2 civic 3:9) | The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9) |
Notice the phrase "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author, the First Book of John inspired by the glorious Holy Spirit.
You brought up 1 John 2:2 which shall be examined in a moment, and the other location is "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one" (1 John 5:19).
The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one, so current Christians are excluded from "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19.
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The First Book of Free-willians | The First Book of John | |
| He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing, Christ's atoning sacrifice fails for ones such as people like Nancy. (1 civic 2:2) | He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2) |
Crucially, you quoted where the Apostle declares THE LOVE OF CHRIST CONTROLS US! BEAUTIFUL CHRIST!!! But you free-willians absolve yourselves from being controlled by Christ.
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Second Book of Free-willians | The Second Book to the Corinthians | |
| For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died and now live in Christ, including people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing (2 civic 5:14) | For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died (2 Corinthians 5:14) |
You quoted your Calvinist god Loraine Boettner, and his quote reinforces that your Free-willian Philosophy abounds in confusion.
We Christians have a God of order, for it is written "God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the holy ones" (1 Corinthians 14:33).
Your blanket statements after you quote your god Boettner errantly coupled with your use of scripture are traditions of men.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE WHO REDEEMS HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE!!!
civic
Well-known member
more of calvins eisegesis( fale teaching ) as there are 2 groups in 1 John 2:2
1- the sins of the believers
2- the sins of the unbelievers including everyone in the world- the world in 1 John are all those under the power of the evil one- the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life.
refuting your unbiblical teaching is easy since your doctrines are anti-gospel.
These Greek Lexicons affirm world means all, everyone, the whole world without exception. The meaning/ definition below proves your belief is wrong.
Thayers
Cosmos: the inhabitants of the
5. world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. )): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29 ( L in brackets); ; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); ; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 (cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536)); ἀρχαῖος κόσμος, of the antediluvians, 2 Peter 2:5; γέννασθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 16:21; ἔρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον (John 9:39) and εἰς τόν κόσμον τοῦτον, to make its appearance or come into existence among men, spoken of the light which in Christ shone upon men, John 1:9; John 3:19, cf. 12:46; of the Messiah, John 6:14; John 11:27; of Jesus as the Messiah, John 9:39; John 16:28; John 18:37; 1 Timothy 1:15; also ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον, Hebrews 10:5; of false teachers, 2 John 1:7(yet here L T Tr WH ἐξέρχεσθαι εἰς τόν κόσμον; (so all texts in 1 John 4:1)); to invade, of evils coming into existence among men and beginning to exert their power: of sin and death, Romans 5:12 (of death, Wis. 2:24; Clement of Rome, 1 Cor. 3, 4 [ET]; of idolatry, Wis. 14:14). ἀποστέλλειν τινα εἰς τόν κόσμον, John 3:17; John 10:36; John 17:18; 1 John 4:9; φῶς τοῦ κόσμου, Matthew 5:14; John 8:12; John 9:5; σωτήρ τοῦ κόσμου, John 4:42; 1 John 4:14 (σωτηρία τοῦ κόσμου Wis. 6:26 (25); ἐλπίς τοῦ κόσμου, Wis. 14:6; πρωτόπλαστος πατήρ τοῦ κόσμου, of Adam, Wis. 10:1); στοιχεῖα τοῦ κόσμου (see στοιχεῖον, 3 and 4); ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, among men, John 16:33; John 17:13; Ephesians 2:12; ἐν κόσμῳ (see Winer's Grammar, 123 (117)), 1 Timothy 3:16; εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου, to dwell among men, John 1:10; John 9:5; John 17:11, 12 R G; 1 John 4:3; εἶναι ἐν κόσμῳ, to be present, Romans 5:13; ἐξελθεῖν, ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to withdraw from human society and seek an abode outside of it, 1 Corinthians 5:10; ἀναστρέφεσθαι ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, to behave oneself, 2 Corinthians 1:12; likewise εἶναι ἐν τῷ κόσμου τούτῳ, 1 John 4:17.
6. "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" (cf. Winer's Grammar, 26): John 7:7; John 14:27 (); ; 1 Corinthians 1:21; 1 Corinthians 6:2; 1 Corinthians 11:32; 2 Corinthians 7:10; James 1:27; 1 Peter 5:9; 2 Peter 1:4; 2 Peter 2:20; 1 John 3:1, 13; 1 John 4:5; 1 John 5:19; of the aggregate of ungodly and wicked men in O. T. times, Hebrews 11:38; in Noah's time, ibid. 7; with οὗτος added, Ephesians 2:2 (on which see αἰών, 3); εἶναι ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου and ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου τούτου (see εἰμί, V. 3rd.), John 8:23; John 15:19; John 17:14, 16; 1 John 4:5;λαλεῖν ἐκ τοῦ κόσμου, to speak in accordance with the world's character and mode of thinking, 1 John 4:5; ὁ ἄρχων τοῦ κόσμου τούτου, i. e. the devil, John 12:31; John 14:30; John 16:11; ὁ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ he that is operative in the world (also of the devil), 1 John 4:4; τό πνεῦμα τοῦ κόσμου
b. of all mankind, but especially of believers, as the object of God’s love J 3:16, 17c; 6:33, 51; 12:47.
William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.
Conclusion: you have turned a blind eye to the biblical meaning in favor of Calvin’s false teaching. You follow the teachings of man.
Next …….
Hope this helps !!!
Nlo that is your love of a false theology
Just like scripture you ignore
1 John 5:19 (KJV 1900) — 19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
Just like the lexicons you ignore
the world, and everything that belongs to it, appears as that which is hostile to God, i.e. lost in sin, wholly at odds w. anything divine, ruined and depraved (Herm. Wr. 6, 4 [the κόσμος is τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς κακίας]; 13, 1 [ἡ τοῦ κ. ἀπάτη], in Stob. p. 428, 24 Sc.; En. 48, 7; Test. Iss. 4:6; Hdb., exc. on J 1:10; Bultmann 33-5.—Cf. Sotades Maronita [III BC] 11 Diehl: the κόσμος is unjust and hostile to great men) IMg 5:2; IRo 2:2. ὁ κόσμος οὗτος this world (in contrast to the other world) J 8:23; 12:25, 31a; 13:1; 16:11; 18:36; 1J 4:17; 1 Cor 3:19; 5:10a; 7:31b; Hv 4, 3, 2ff; D 10:6; 2 Cl 5:1, 5; (opp. ὁ ἅγιος αἰών) B 10:11. ‘This world’ is ruled by the ἄρχων τοῦ κ. τούτου the prince of this world, the devil J 12:31b; 16:11; without τούτου 14:30. Cf. also ὁ κ. ὅλος ἐν τῷ πονηρῷ κεῖται the whole world lies in the power of the evil one 1J 5:19.
William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature : A Translation and Adaption of the Fourth Revised and Augmented Edition of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch Zu Den Schrift En Des Neuen Testaments Und Der Ubrigen Urchristlichen Literatur (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1979), 446.
Does it irk you if God keeps his promises
John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
No Nancy failed to believe
Christ has died for and provided salvation for all
Christ died list
1 Timothy 2:4–6
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Isaiah 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned every one to his own way; And the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
1 Timothy 4:10
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
2 Corinthians 5:14–15
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
John 11:51
And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
2 Corinthians 5:19
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
It scripture not free willer you ignore
So you attempt to use a verse which uisd unklimited in its scope to prove limitation while falsifying what others hold
Do you really hate scripture that much?
John 3:14–18 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
or you just hate the idea of using all of scripture because it will not support your theology?
TomL, you possessively owned "my interpretation of John 12:47" in response to the post in which God caused me to quote the Apostle Peter as follows:
know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God
(2 Peter 1:20-21).
Therefore, your "my interpretation of John 12:47" substantiates that you preach the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9) in opposition to the Holy Spirit's Truth (John 14:6).
Lord Jesus declares "in vain they worship Me, teaching as instruction the precepts of men" (Matthew 15:9).
You are condescending toward me with your "Um".
In John 12:47, according to your Free-willian Philosophy, both unbeliever Bob and unbeliever Alice represent "the world":
- if unbeliever Bob chooses to believe in Christ, then God must profit believer Bob with eternal life.
- if unbeliever Alice chooses to believe not in Christ, then God must punish unbeliever Alice with eternal damnation.
- The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being rewarded with eternal life is whether a person “chooses to believe in Christ”.
Your interpretation is your believing "the world" in John 12:47 overrides or controls "the world" in John 3:16, but more evil results from your misinterpretation which is explained in the next section.
You are condescending toward with your "Hello"
You caused yourself to repeatedly preach that John 12:47 dictates the meaning of the word world in John 3:16-17; on the other hand, God caused me to proclaim that the word world in John 3:18 is contextually contiguously relevant in the same dialog as John 3:16-17 as compared to the temporally distant dialog in John 12:47.
Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47 is as follows. Here is the precious and pure Word of God "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
Lord and God Jesus Christ saves each one from the wrath of God who believes in the Son whom the Father has sent; in contrast, every one goes to hell who does not believe in Jesus (John 7:21-27).
The Son says "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day" (John 6:39).
There are two contexts regarding saved persons and unsaved people within the 29 words issued by Jesus recorded in John 12:47:
| Clause | Context | |
| If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him | unsaved people / all unbelievers | |
| for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world | saved people (now and then) / current believers and future believers |
We Christians hear Christ clearly convey that the world contextually includes exclusively current believers and future believers, that is, saved people, as per His loving "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47 is as follows. Of the word "world" in John 12:47, your heart assigned the definition of "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" in a fashion similar to civic.
| Clause | Context | |
| If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him | unsaved people / all unbelievers | |
| for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world | the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[ |
The implications of your "the world" in John 12:47 are multiple.
According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin unbelievers:
- if Bob chooses to believe in Christ, then God must profit Bob with eternal life.
- if Alice chooses to believe not in Christ, then God must punish Alice with eternal damnation.
- The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being rewarded with eternal life is whether a person “chooses to believe in Christ”.
On to another dark consequence of your Free-willian Philosophy "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[" is that your heart's treasure renders Christ's death an abject failure for every unbeliever who dies as an unbeliever because Christ failed to save that saved unbeliever (see John 12:47 and see the Alice example above).
Your belief in failure atonement results in Christ being a false prophet because Jesus fails to save all that he died to save.
The context around John 12:47 is relevant.
Your heart set "the world" equal to "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[", so your heart equivocates "the world" into a thing of "all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me".
Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The word of TomL | The Word of God | |
| If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save any unbeliever who calls in his own initiative speaking his self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me. (TomL 12:47) | If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. (John 12:47-49) |
See your heart has your "the world" of unbelievers being superior to Jesus because your unbelievers speak on their own initiative in contrast to Jesus who says "I did not speak on My own initiative" (John 12:49).
A deeper sinister darkness lurks in your context for John 12:47. Both Bob and Alice start off as part of the world, so even believer Bob is unsaved because unbeliever Alice is unsaved which causes the entirety of your the world to be unsaved from the wrath of God. Do not be deceived, Lord Jesus said "to save the world" in John 12:47 - "the world" is an aggregate phrase indicating the entire world - which for free-willians is your "the world".
Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18 os as follows as per the Holy Spirit. Let's look at Jesus' term the world in a directly adjacent critical text to John 3:16-17:
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(John 3:17-18)
Clearly, unbelievers of the world are judged as their default state of being as per Christ recorded in John 3:18 (which is directly adjacent to John 3:16-17 instead of way over to John 12:47 that fails as a proof text for your Free-willian Philosophy as demonstrated above).
The world, the dead in sin, must be born of God in order to righteously perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God (John 3:3); furthermore, Lord Jesus Christ establishes the ordained order of salvation of born of God preceding faith in John chapter 3 with John 3:3 preceding John 3:16 all in the same dialog.
Your Free-willian Philosophy holds that the dead in sin cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ), so your Free-willian Philosophy is false and in a state of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the dead in sin do not cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ).
The word "world" in John 3:16 is exclusively the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
You will never be able to formulate a right interpretation of scripture in your own initiative because the Lord illumines your self-willed (2 Peter 2:9-10) inability to discern the very Righteousness of God when He conveys "why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right" (Luke 12:57), so you are incapable of judging rightly according to your own interpretation; therefore, you blindly throw out "You failed to rebut my interpretation of John 12:47".
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!
civic
Well-known member
Yes a major failure as his Calvinism has crumbled once again with these ridiculous cut n pastes we have seen 100’s of times now.
civic
Well-known member
Your false teaching on elect, chosen, predestined, determinism exposed. You don’t understand the atonement and its scope.
It is a lie that Jesus doesn’t love everyone, all the world for which He provided atonement for as scripture declares
Nowhere in Scripture does it say Christ ONLY died for the elect:
He died for ALL (1 Tim. 2:6).
He died for ALL MEN (Rom. 5:18; 1 Tim. 4:10).
He died for US ALL, for ALL OF US (Isa. 53:6).
He died for the UNGODLY (Rom. 5:6).
He died for CHRIST-DENIERS (2 Peter 2:1).
He died for SINNERS (Rom. 5:8).
He died for EVERY MAN (Heb. 2:9).
He died for MANY (Matthew 20:28).
He died for the WORLD (John 6:33,51; John 1:29 and John 3:16).
He died for the WHOLE WORLD (1 John 2:2).
He died for the WHOLE NATION of Israel (John 11:50-51).
He died for the CHURCH (Eph. 5:25).
He died for His SHEEP (John 10:11).
He died for ME (Gal. 2:20).
Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
As we see above the Apostle Paul says we are to pray for " ALL " people everywhere even for the " kings in authority" and then uses the same word in the same context of " ALL " people with Jesus giving His life as a ransom for all. All does not mean Jew/Gentiles as some falsely teach. It means all men, all mankind, everyone ALL PEOPLE EVERYWHERE.
You cannot have ALL mean two different things in the context of the passage. That is once again being dishonest with the text and reading ones doctrine into the passage which is eisegesis
As seen in my posts I have plenty to say from scripture that opposes Calvinism. You are projecting since it’s your heart that makes false accusations against Christ.
hope this helps !!!
I'm not interested in departing from where we currently are in our discussion, civic, so here is where we are:
The Lord eliminates your ability to discern the very Righteousness of God when He conveys "why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right" (Luke 12:57), so you are incapable of judging rightly according to your own interpretation.
Your "hope this helps" about your post truly helps in demonstrating your failure to understand context, again. By God's grace for God's glory, I am sequentially segment this post to make it easier to understand context.
- Interpretation of Holy Scripture
- @TomL's constraint on John 3:16-17 by John 12:47
- Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
- Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
- Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18
- Dogma and doctrine are importantly Truth (John 14:6)
- Interpretation of Holy Scripture
You inherit the writings of other people as your own writings when you exalt those people's writings as authority in your posts.
Your heart's treasure securely holds to that which you call "The Golden Rule of Interpretation".
When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.
That's a very high authoritative bar that you set there, civic, your "Golden Rule of Interpretation".
Your fleshly mind's "common sense" is all that you need, and you can make "plain sense of Scripture" exclusively using your "common sense" before you are born of God according to your cumulative writings.
Now, the time has come to compare and contrast your dearly held belief with the Apostle Peter's words:
The Fleshly Traditions of Men Holy Scripture know this first of all, that every prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for it matters not whether prophecy was made by an act of human will, or men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God
(2 civic 1:20-21)know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God
(2 Peter 1:20-21)
Peter and I are God-centered.
You and TomL are man-centered.
- @TomL's constraint on John 3:16-17 by John 12:47
TomL caused himself to repeatedly preach that John 12:47 dictates the meaning of the word world in John 3:16-17; on the other hand, God caused me to proclaim that the word world in John 3:18 is contextually contiguously relevant in the same dialog as John 3:16-17 as compared to the temporally distant dialog in John 12:47.
- Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
Here is the precious and pure Word of God "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
Lord and God Jesus Christ saves each one from the wrath of God who believes in the Son whom the Father has sent; in contrast, every one goes to hell who does not believe in Jesus (John 7:21-27).
The Son says "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day" (John 6:39).
There are two contexts regarding saved persons and unsaved people within the 29 words issued by Jesus recorded in John 12:47:
Clause Context If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him unsaved people / all unbelievers for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world saved people (now and then) / current believers and future believers
We Christians hear Christ clearly convey that the world contextually includes exclusively current believers and future believers, that is, saved people, as per His loving "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
- Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
Of the word "world" in John 12:47, your heart assigned the definition of "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" in a fashion similar to TomL.
Clause Context If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him unsaved people / all unbelievers for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[
The implications of your "the world" in John 12:47 are multiple.
According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin unbelievers:- if Bob chooses to believe in Christ, then God must profit Bob with eternal life.
- if Alice chooses to believe not in Christ, then God must punish Alice with eternal damnation.
- The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being rewarded with eternal life is whether a person “chooses to believe in Christ”.
On to another dark consequence of your Free-willian Philosophy "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[" is that your heart's treasure renders Christ's death an abject failure for every unbeliever who dies as an unbeliever because Christ failed to save that saved unbeliever (see John 12:47 and the Alice example above).
Your belief in failure atonement results in Christ being a false prophet because Jesus fails to save all that he died to save.
The context around John 12:47 is relevant.
Your heart set "the world" equal to "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[", so your heart equivocates "the world" into a thing of "all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me".
Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Word of God again and again and again.The word of civic The Word of God If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save any unbeliever who calls in his own initiative speaking his self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me.
(civic 12:47)If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
(John 12:47-49)
See your heart has your "the world" of unbelievers being superior to Jesus because your unbelievers speak on their own initiative in contrast to Jesus who says "I did not speak on My own initiative" (John 12:49).
A deeper sinister darkness lurks in your context for John 12:47. Both Bob and Alice start off as part of the world, so even believer Bob is unsaved because unbeliever Alice is unsaved which causes the entirety of the world to be unsaved from the wrath of God. Do not be deceived, Lord Jesus said "to save the world" in John 12:47 - "the world" is an aggregate phrase indicating the entire world.
God caused me to address TomL's specific Free-willian Philosophical point, and you injected yourself as TomL's champion regarding TomL's Free-willian Philosophy, so you are one who does not receive Christ's sayings (John 12:48 - notice John 12:47 which is directly adjacent to John 12:48).
- Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18
Let's look at Jesus' term the world in a directly adjacent critical text to John 3:16-17:
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(John 3:17-18)
Clearly, unbelievers of the world are judged as their default state of being as per Christ recorded in John 3:18 (which is directly adjacent to John 3:16-17 instead of way over to John 12:47 that fails as a proof text for your Free-willian Philosophy as demonstrated above).
The dead in sin must be born of God in order to righteously perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God (John 3:3); furthermore, Lord Jesus Christ establishes the ordained order of salvation in John chapter 3 with John 3:3 preceding John 3:16 in the same dialog.
Your Free-willian Philosophy holds that the dead in sin cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ), so your Free-willian Philosophy is false and in a state of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the dead in sin do not cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ).
The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
- Dogma is important Truth (John 14:6)
Your heart discounts the concept of dogma with your words "I'm all about the TRUTH never dogma".
Now while they were passing through the cities, they were delivering the dogma which had been decided upon by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem, for them to observe (Acts 16:4).
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!
civic
Well-known member
Sorry all the Biblical Greek lexicons refute your false claims about the cosmos/ world as demonstrated from the scriptures. You espouse the man centered doctrines of Calvin over scripture.
The readers can all see the biblical definition is on my side not yours. You gospel is a false gospel for a few predetermined souls instead of for all the world, everyone in the world, the world for which Christ made atonement. The gospel for all , the atonement for all through faith in Christ. Bible Basics 101.
hope this helps !!!
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
If Christ didn't die for every man, then how shall Christ be justified in judging the world?
Your man-centered "I chose Jesus so He must now give me eternal life" is the traditions of men leading to worship in vain (Matthew 15:9).
Let us visit the Bible passages of John 1:29, Hebrews 2:9, Titus 2:11, Titus 3:4, John 3:16, 1 Timothy 2:4, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2, and 2 Corinthians 5:14 which you presented as your free-willian philosophy shifting sand (Matthew 7:21-27).
God causes me to visit each and every verse that you quoted.
As a reminder for you, for the definition of the word "world", you hold a death grip on "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ".
According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin, ungodly multitude, unbelievers:
- if Tom of the world chooses to believe in Christ before he dies, then God must profit Tom with eternal life being saved from the wrath of God.
- if Nancy of the world chooses to believe not in Christ right until her dying thoughts, then God must punish Nancy with eternal damnation being under the wrath of God.
- The conclusion: Christ succeeded in saving Tom of the world, and Christ failed in saving Nancy of the world.
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of John | |
| The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who fails to take away the sin of the world! (civic 1:29) | The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! (John 1:29) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of Hebrews | |
| But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he ineffectively suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might ineffectually taste death for everyone like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God. (civic 2:9) | But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. (Hebrews 2:9) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of Titus | |
| For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, even people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God but they enjoy salvation but they suffer punishment but they enjoy salvation-punishment (civic 2:11) | For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, (Titus 2:11) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Book of Free-willians | The Book of Titus | |
| But when the kindness and the love of mankind which includes God-displeasing sin-immersed self-willed under the wrath of God people like Nancy of God our Savior appeared (civic 3:4) | But when the kindness and the love of mankind of God our Savior appeared (Titus 3:4) |
Lord Jesus says "men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their works were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light" (John 3:19-20) in the immediately same conversation as John 3:16!
Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The word of civic | The Word of God | |
| For God so loved the world like Judas Iscariot and people like Tom and people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever loving the darkness hating the Light by self-will choosing to believe in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (civic 3:16) | For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (John 3:16) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The First Book of Free-willians | The First Book of Timothy | |
| Who will have all men to be saved, but God's will fails miserably with saving people like Nancy of the world who are eternally under the wrath of God, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 civic 2:4) | Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:4) |
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Second Book of Free-willians | The Second Book of Peter | |
| The Lord breaks his promise because he is patient with you people like Nancy of the world who will never be a part of the Body of Christ, not wishing that any should perish but people like Nancy perish without ever coming to repentance. (2 civic 3:9) | The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9) |
Notice the phrase "the whole world" occurs twice in the same book with the same author, the First Book of John inspired by the glorious Holy Spirit.
You brought up 1 John 2:2 which shall be examined in a moment, and the other location is "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one" (1 John 5:19).
The Apostle John further wrote "you have overcome the evil one" (1 John 2:13), and John uses the "you" to refer to Christians exclusively; therefore, no Christian lies in the evil one, so current Christians are excluded from "the whole world" in 1 John 5:19.
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The First Book of Free-willians | The First Book of John | |
| He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing, Christ's atoning sacrifice fails for ones such as people like Nancy. (1 civic 2:2) | He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 John 2:2) |
Crucially, you quoted where the Apostle declares THE LOVE OF CHRIST CONTROLS US! BEAUTIFUL CHRIST!!! But you free-willians absolve yourselves from being controlled by Christ.
Your adulteration of the Holy Scripture is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
| The Second Book of Free-willians | The Second Book to the Corinthians | |
| For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died and now live in Christ, including people like Nancy of the whole world who lie in the power of the evil one, even until they stop breathing (2 civic 5:14) | For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died (2 Corinthians 5:14) |
You quoted your Calvinist god Loraine Boettner, and his quote reinforces that your Free-willian Philosophy abounds in confusion.
We Christians have a God of order, for it is written "God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the holy ones" (1 Corinthians 14:33).
Your blanket statements after you quote your god Boettner errantly coupled with your use of scripture are traditions of men.
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE ONE WHO REDEEMS HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE!!!
civic
Well-known member
Projecting you are the one promoting the determinism of Calvinism not me.
Back to the drawing board with a valid argument
You are arguing a strawman.
Behold, your response is devoid of Holy Scripture! Your Free-willian Philosophy is a dead end! You are incapable of correcting that which cannot be corrected!
Your "hope this helps" about your post truly helps in demonstrating your failure to understand context, again. By God's grace for God's glory, I am sequentially segment this post to make it easier to understand context.
- Interpretation of Holy Scripture
- @TomL's constraint on John 3:16-17 by John 12:47
- Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
- Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
- Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18
- Dogma and doctrine are importantly Truth (John 14:6)
- Interpretation of Holy Scripture
You inherit the writings of other people as your own writings when you exalt those people's writings as authority in your posts.
Your heart's treasure securely holds to that which you call "The Golden Rule of Interpretation".
When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.
That's a very high authoritative bar that you set there, civic, your "Golden Rule of Interpretation".
Your fleshly mind's "common sense" is all that you need, and you can make "plain sense of Scripture" exclusively using your "common sense" before you are born of God according to your cumulative writings.
Now, the time has come to compare and contrast your dearly held belief with the Apostle Peter's words:
The Fleshly Traditions of Men Holy Scripture know this first of all, that every prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for it matters not whether prophecy was made by an act of human will, or men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God
(2 civic 1:20-21)know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God
(2 Peter 1:20-21)
Peter and I are God-centered.
You and TomL are man-centered.
- @TomL's constraint on John 3:16-17 by John 12:47
TomL caused himself to repeatedly preach that John 12:47 dictates the meaning of the word world in John 3:16-17; on the other hand, God caused me to proclaim that the word world in John 3:18 is contextually contiguously relevant in the same dialog as John 3:16-17 as compared to the temporally distant dialog in John 12:47.
- Christ's context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
Here is the precious and pure Word of God "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
Lord and God Jesus Christ saves each one from the wrath of God who believes in the Son whom the Father has sent; in contrast, every one goes to hell who does not believe in Jesus (John 7:21-27).
The Son says "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day" (John 6:39).
There are two contexts regarding saved persons and unsaved people within the 29 words issued by Jesus recorded in John 12:47:
Clause Context If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him unsaved people / all unbelievers for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world saved people (now and then) / current believers and future believers
We Christians hear Christ clearly convey that the world contextually includes exclusively current believers and future believers, that is, saved people, as per His loving "If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world" (Lord Jesus Christ, John 12:47).
- Your context for Christ's sayings recorded in John 12:47
Of the word "world" in John 12:47, your heart assigned the definition of "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ" in a fashion similar to TomL.
Clause Context If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him unsaved people / all unbelievers for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[
The implications of your "the world" in John 12:47 are multiple.
According to your Free-willian Philosophy, the following represents fleshly people, dead in sin unbelievers:- if Bob chooses to believe in Christ, then God must profit Bob with eternal life.
- if Alice chooses to believe not in Christ, then God must punish Alice with eternal damnation.
- The conclusion: the causative factor for a person being rewarded with eternal life is whether a person “chooses to believe in Christ”.
On to another dark consequence of your Free-willian Philosophy "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[" is that your heart's treasure renders Christ's death an abject failure for every unbeliever who dies as an unbeliever because Christ failed to save that saved unbeliever (see John 12:47 and the Alice example above).
Your belief in failure atonement results in Christ being a false prophet because Jesus fails to save all that he died to save.
The context around John 12:47 is relevant.
Your heart set "the world" equal to "the ungodly multitude; the whole mass of men alienated from God, and therefore hostile to the cause of Christ[", so your heart equivocates "the world" into a thing of "all unbelievers who call in their own initiative speaking their self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me".
Your adulteration of the Holy Word of God is evident in your quotations augmented with your heart's thoughts in your posts:
And so go your adulterations of precious and Holy Word of God again and again and again.The word of civic The Word of God If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save any unbeliever who calls in his own initiative speaking his self-willed change of heart from unbeliever to believer in Me.
(civic 12:47)If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
(John 12:47-49)
See your heart has your "the world" of unbelievers being superior to Jesus because your unbelievers speak on their own initiative in contrast to Jesus who says "I did not speak on My own initiative" (John 12:49).
A deeper sinister darkness lurks in your context for John 12:47. Both Bob and Alice start off as part of the world, so even believer Bob is unsaved because unbeliever Alice is unsaved which causes the entirety of the world to be unsaved from the wrath of God. Do not be deceived, Lord Jesus said "to save the world" in John 12:47 - "the world" is an aggregate phrase indicating the entire world.
God caused me to address TomL's specific Free-willian Philosophical point, and you injected yourself as TomL's champion regarding TomL's Free-willian Philosophy, so you are one who does not receive Christ's sayings (John 12:48 - notice John 12:47 which is directly adjacent to John 12:48).
- Christ's context of Christ's sayings recorded in John 3:16-18
Let's look at Jesus' term the world in a directly adjacent critical text to John 3:16-17:
16 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one believing in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life 17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(John 3:17-18)
Clearly, unbelievers of the world are judged as their default state of being as per Christ recorded in John 3:18 (which is directly adjacent to John 3:16-17 instead of way over to John 12:47 that fails as a proof text for your Free-willian Philosophy as demonstrated above).
The dead in sin must be born of God in order to righteously perceive King Jesus of the Kingdom of God (John 3:3); furthermore, Lord Jesus Christ establishes the ordained order of salvation in John chapter 3 with John 3:3 preceding John 3:16 in the same dialog.
Your Free-willian Philosophy holds that the dead in sin cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ), so your Free-willian Philosophy is false and in a state of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33) because the dead in sin do not cause themselves to be born of God (have life in Christ).
The word "world" in John 3:16 is the population of persons who currently are or in the future will be imparted the work of God unto salvation that is faith/belief in Lord Jesus Christ whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).
- Dogma is important Truth (John 14:6)
Your heart discounts the concept of dogma with your words "I'm all about the TRUTH never dogma".
Now while they were passing through the cities, they were delivering the dogma which had been decided upon by the apostles and elders who were in Jerusalem, for them to observe (Acts 16:4).
Your heart makes false statements about God and man. Free-will is a conjured concept of the traditions of men (Matthew 15:9).
In Truth (John 14:6), the Almighty God is Sovereign (Genesis 1:1) in the affairs of man (Daniel 4:34-35)! PRAISE THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF THE FAITH!!!
civic
Well-known member
The same cut n paste
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Does he really expect others to try to engage with such rambling responses?
civic
Well-known member
It’s not a good format for online discussions in a forum like ours.
Good job.
