amazing grace
Active Member
Well, I totally disagree.
It's plan that scripture totally contradicts Trinitarianism.
All Claims of The Son's Deity
- Thread starter Johann
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It's plan that scripture totally contradicts Trinitarianism.
Runningman
Active Member
The one God is the Father alone and that Jesus is God’s Messiah (not God Himself). The Bible explicitly states this so it's Biblical and God is defined in the Unitarian sense. Hence Biblical Unitarian.
synergy
Active Member
Where did you get the word "alone" from? You are hallucinating again, as usual.
"that Jesus"? How many Jesus are there in unitarianism?
The Word who was God dwelt on Earth as Jesus. Since God can never cease to be God, eexcept within unitarianism, Jesus is God.
civic
Active Member
adding to the bible which is a big no no
Runningman
Active Member
Biblical Unitarianism is spelled out completely and clearly from cover to cover. The clearest examples are John 17:3 and 1 Corinthians 8:4-6, but there are also the thousands of times God is called a He, Him, His, You, I, but never a they or a them. I am sure it must be difficult to not have the same sort of validation from Scripture that we Christians enjoy. It's nice to be able to open the Bible and see God and the prophets affirm us Unitarians so completely.
dwight92070
Active Member
Jesus told His disciples that, after He left them, they would be brought before kings and governors for His names sake, leading to an opportunity for their testimony of Him. Luke 21:12-13
Then in verses 14-15 He says: "So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute."
In Matthew 10:19 He said: "for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say."
Could the Uni's explain how Jesus, who according to them is only a man, who had already died and ascended to heaven, could give the words to His disciples that they were to speak?
My father and mother have both died, and I haven't heard a word from them since - and I know that I won't, until I join them in heaven. So how could Jesus, also just a man, communicate with His disciples, and tell them what to say in that very hour that they are brought before a king or a governor?
Then in verses 14-15 He says: "So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute."
In Matthew 10:19 He said: "for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say."
Could the Uni's explain how Jesus, who according to them is only a man, who had already died and ascended to heaven, could give the words to His disciples that they were to speak?
My father and mother have both died, and I haven't heard a word from them since - and I know that I won't, until I join them in heaven. So how could Jesus, also just a man, communicate with His disciples, and tell them what to say in that very hour that they are brought before a king or a governor?
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synergy
Active Member
You continue to dodge my questions and statements. Answer my questions.and I'll be more than happy to address your statements. Where did you get the word "alone" from? How many Jesus are there in unitarianism? Why do you believe the Word, who was God, ceases to be God when He dwelt as Jesus on Earth?
civic
Active Member
They deny Jesus is the Word who was God. That’s how they dodge John’s prologue.
Runningman
Active Member
The Father is the only true God so He alone is God because of what the word only means. Small words can carry great significance, don't ignore them again.
synergy
Active Member
That's Monotheism which Trinitarianism upholds.
That does not follow. Nowhere does the Bible say that the Father alone is the true God. Stop with the falsehoods.
I choose to ignore your small words that you maliciously insert into Bible verses.
I see that you ran away as fast as you possibly could from my question below:
Runningman
Active Member
Yes, the Father as the "only" true God in John 17:3 linguistically follows to the conclusion that the Father alone is God. Why? Because the Greek word μόνον (monon) in John 17:3 literally means alone or the only one. Crack open a lexicon if you don't believe me. In the context of John 17:1-3, only modifies God with the object being the Father. This refers to the exclusive deity of the Father who alone is God. So once again, Biblical Unitarianism can hold its own just fine against denials. We have solid scriptural Proof for what we believe, but you don't.
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synergy
Active Member
The Greek word μονον in John 17:3 is assigned to "the only true God", not to "You", the Father. μονον only modifies the title “the only true God,” which in Jewish Monotheistic usage distinguishes the true God from idols, not one divine person from another. In fact, John 17 immediately refutes your interpretation, because Jesus claims prerogatives that only God possesses. Jesus shares eternal pre-creation glory with the Father (17:5), He gives eternal life (17:2), and He possesses all that the Father has (17:10), all of which would be blasphemous if the Father “alone” were God in the Unitarian sense you falsely assert.
John 17:3 αυτη δε εστιν η αιωνιος ζωη ινα γινωσκωσιν σε τον μονον αληθινον θεον και ον απεστειλας ιησουν χριστον
As usual, you continue to run away as fast as your legs can carry you from my question below:
Runningman
Active Member
In the flow of what Jesus said, Jesus was praying to the Father and said to Him "You, the only true God" so he was not just giving the Father a title, but excluding all others from being "the true God." Only is an adjective modifying God, not modifying the word "true" and not "Jesus." So the object of exclusive deity of the Father alone.
Notice how Jesus didn't say "We are the only true God" but instead used the singular pronoun "You" to described the Father who alone is the only true God. Notice how Jesus distinguished himself from the only true God and said he is the one "You" have sent. So there is a sender vs. sent distinction.
There is no ambiguity about what Jesus said as he spoke to the Father. It's quite crystal clear “that they may know YOU, the only true God” So no matter how you want to spin it, whether only modifies God or the Father is a meaningless distinction because it still refers to the same person. It's also meaningless to look further into the context. The Father was already identified as the only true God who alone is God. You can't change it no matter how hard you try.
dwight92070
Active Member
Jesus told His disciples that, after He left them, they would be brought before kings and governors for His names sake, leading to an opportunity for their testimony of Him. Luke 21:12-13
Then in verses 14-15 He says: "So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute."
In Matthew 10:19 He said: "for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say."
Could the Uni's explain how Jesus, who according to them is only a man, who had already died and ascended to heaven, could give the words to His disciples that they were to speak?
My father and mother have both died, and I haven't heard a word from them since - and I know that I won't, until I join them in heaven. So how could Jesus, also just a man, communicate with His disciples, and tell them what to say in that very hour that they are brought before a king or a governor?
Then in verses 14-15 He says: "So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute."
In Matthew 10:19 He said: "for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say."
Could the Uni's explain how Jesus, who according to them is only a man, who had already died and ascended to heaven, could give the words to His disciples that they were to speak?
My father and mother have both died, and I haven't heard a word from them since - and I know that I won't, until I join them in heaven. So how could Jesus, also just a man, communicate with His disciples, and tell them what to say in that very hour that they are brought before a king or a governor?
Runningman
Active Member
dwight92070
Active Member
Just more evidence that Jesus is God and the Trinity as well. Jesus said He would give them utterance and wisdom, and yet it would be the Spirit of the Father speaking through them. Here we see the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit working together.
Also in Matthew 28:19, Jesus reveals to us that the name (singular) of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is ONE NAME, not three names.
Also in Matthew 28:19, Jesus reveals to us that the name (singular) of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is ONE NAME, not three names.
Runningman
Active Member
Jesus was teaching that the disciples could have the same thing as he has.
In John 12:49,50 we see how the Spirit of the Father also spoke through Jesus.
John 12
49I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it. 50And I know that His command leads to eternal life. So I speak exactly what the Father has told Me to say.”
How do you figure that refers to a trinity when we know beyond a doubt that the Father alone is the true God? (John 17:1-3)
That does not say the disciples speak what the Father has commanded them. THe only exception is if they are called to speak to kings and rulers.
The issue is concerns the recognition that Jesus is God and not a fake one. Maybe you have heard of that dilemma that had to be resolved.
Victoria
Active Member
Jesus Christ was fully God, & fully man.
"Thy" is an archaic possessive form of "thou," meaning "your."
But unto the Son he saith, Thy [your] throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy [your] God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Hebrews 1:8-10
Therefore God [the Son], even thy [your] God [the Father].
A created mortal being cannot be humanity's Saviour.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation
of them that hate me;
Exodus 20:3; 5
If Jesus isn't God, wouldn't Jehovah then be breaking His own commandment by commanding we worship Jesus? The disciples worshiped Jesus. If Jesus isn't God, they broke the first commandment as well while under the law. If we give reverence
to anyone other than God Almighty, that would be idolatry. We can only worship one God.
I never got the impression that you were, amazing.
All I meant by saying you're in a different camp was that we don't have the same Jesus Christ.
Thank you, hun
I hope you, & yours had a lovely Thanksgiving!
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Victoria
Active Member
The attack on the core fundamental beliefs of the Christian faith? No, didn't catch any of those comparisons.
Please feel free at any time to share those comparisons, & how the AV butchers them.
I've already studied the manuscripts issue.
Again, I don't know who you're describing here, but it surely isn't me.
