All Claims of The Son's Deity

thank you for the opinions about me personally.
but -
i don't see how assigning negative characteristics to me relates to anything i said.
I'm not assigning negative characteristics, it's just an observation. The previous repetitive posts, talking of things that sound really unorthodox compared to what Christians believe, not comprehending my responses regarding religion vs. a personal relationship.

The impression you seem to give off sounds like you have an idol of who you believe God to be, & not who God actual is.
 
I'm not assigning negative characteristics, it's just an observation. The previous repetitive posts, talking of things that sound really unorthodox compared to what Christians believe, not comprehending my responses regarding religion vs. a personal relationship.

The impression you seem to give off sounds like you have an idol of who you believe God to be, & not who God actual is.
holding a different view does not mean i have trust issues nor that paranoia can be attributed to me.

please don't personalize the reasons for my views.
it is a subtle form of ad hom.
 
Actually, the book of Hebrews seems to clear up the subject when it says that when Jesus was on the earth that he was made like us in every way: “Therefore he [Jesus] had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God” (Hebrews 2:17). This verse shows that Jesus was not both fully human and fully God at the same time and if he was then he would not be like us in every respect. Adam, the first man was fully human and by his sin brought sin into the world. Jesus is called the “last Adam” (1Corinthians 15:45) and it seems that designation would not be appropriate if Jesus was not fully human in the same way that Adam was.
Yes, Jesus acknowledged being fully human and fully God. Being the "Son of man" and the "Son of God."
1. Being the "Son of man", He was 100% human, as His mother is human Mary. Yes or no?
2. Being the "Son of God", as His Father is God. Is He God or not? Why that honest logical answer to the first cannot be applied to the second?

Mat 26:63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God."
Mat 26:64 Jesus *said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE
SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."

Adam is called a “type” of Jesus Christ (Romans 5:14). The word translated as “type” in many English versions is the translation of the Greek word tupos (τύπος) which can be defined as “a type, pattern, model, or example of something else.” Although the KJV translates tupos as “figure” most of the more modern versions say “pattern” (NIV), “prototype” (HCSB), or “type” (ESV, NAB, NASB). Adam was a type, prototype, or pattern of Christ because he was fully human and began without a sin nature—and Jesus was the same: fully human and made without a sin nature. The reason no other human male after Adam could be a “type” of Christ is that we are all born with a sin nature. Adam could not be a “type” of Christ if Jesus was 100% man and 100% God because Adam did not have a “God-nature.”

cc: @mikesw
@Capbook
@Runningman
Jesus in human nature was just like the first Adam or us, sinful in nature but have not sinned, as a model for us to emulate, being a Christian, followers of Christ.(Rom 8:3)
While the first Adam brought death, the second Adam offers us life.

Rom 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
 
Yes, Jesus acknowledged being fully human and fully God. Being the "Son of man" and the "Son of God."
1. Being the "Son of man", He was 100% human, as His mother is human Mary. Yes or no?
2. Being the "Son of God", as His Father is God. Is He God or not? Why that honest logical answer to the first cannot be applied to the second?

Mat 26:63 But Jesus kept silent. And the high priest said to Him, "I adjure You by the living God, that You tell us whether You are the Christ, the Son of God."
Mat 26:64 Jesus *said to him, "You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you, hereafter you will see THE
SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."


Jesus in human nature was just like the first Adam or us, sinful in nature but have not sinned, as a model for us to emulate, being a Christian, followers of Christ.(Rom 8:3)
While the first Adam brought death, the second Adam offers us life.

Rom 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
Jesus acknowledged being fully human. He equated being the Son of God with being the Son of Man. Since being the Son of God and the Son of Man are different titles for the same human, so there isn't a God Jesus and a human Jesus and there never was. For example, the Bible doesn't say that Jesus descended from heaven as the Son of God nor pre-existed as the Son of God. There are no examples of a pre-existent Son of God in the Old Testament. Jesus taught that he descended from heaven as the Son of Man which means he is a human, yet we know he isn't a heaven literally from the sky. This means Jesus was sent via God's foreknowledge and predestination just as the prophecies of the coming human Messiah state. The point is that being a Son of God is not only something Jesus is, but also something others can be and are themselves.

Jesus came from heaven as a human, but Jesus didn't pre-exist in heaven as a human:

John 3​
13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.​
John 6​
62Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before?

Jesus equated being the Son of God to being human:

John 5​
25Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. 27And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
 
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John 5
25Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. 27And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
💡A true light bulb moment! I have read these scriptures soooo many times but never saw this correlation . . . . Thanks!
I love it when that happens! :)
 
Jesus acknowledged being fully human. He equated being the Son of God with being the Son of Man. Since being the Son of God and the Son of Man are different titles for the same human, so there isn't a God Jesus and a human Jesus and there never was. For example, the Bible doesn't say that Jesus descended from heaven as the Son of God nor pre-existed as the Son of God. There are no examples of a pre-existent Son of God in the Old Testament. Jesus taught that he descended from heaven as the Son of Man which means he is a human, yet we know he isn't a heaven literally from the sky. This means Jesus was sent via God's foreknowledge and predestination just as the prophecies of the coming human Messiah state. The point is that being a Son of God is not only something Jesus is, but also something others can be and are themselves.

Jesus came from heaven as a human, but Jesus didn't pre-exist in heaven as a human:

John 3​
13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.​
John 6​
62Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before?

Jesus equated being the Son of God to being human:

John 5​
25Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. 27And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
No He pre-existed as God,

next fallacy
 
💡A true light bulb moment! I have read these scriptures soooo many times but never saw this correlation . . . . Thanks!
I love it when that happens! :)
I love that. I have read a few debates, read the Bible a little bit too, and just have picked up on some things I've seen. Glory to God. Here's another one where Jesus is called the Son of God, yet identifies himself as the Son of Man. (This isn't a one-off occurrence either. Check out Matthew 16:13-17, Matthew 26:63-64, and Mark 14:61-62)

John 1
49“Rabbi,” Nathanael answered, “You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”
50Jesus said to him, “Do you believe just because I told you I saw you under the fig tree? You will see greater things than these.” 51Then He declared, “Truly, truly, I tell you, you will all see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”
 
I love that. I have read a few debates, read the Bible a little bit too, and just have picked up on some things I've seen. Glory to God. Here's another one where Jesus is called the Son of God, yet identifies himself as the Son of Man. (This isn't a one-off occurrence either. Check out Matthew 16:13-17, Matthew 26:63-64, and Mark 14:61-62)

John 1
49“Rabbi,” Nathanael answered, “You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”
50Jesus said to him, “Do you believe just because I told you I saw you under the fig tree? You will see greater things than these.” 51Then He declared, “Truly, truly, I tell you, you will all see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”
And the Word was God !

The Son of man, Son of God is Eternal, from Eternity. Without beginning. He created all things. Even the OT confirms His eternity.

Next fallacy


Zechariah 2:8-13
For this is what the Lord Almighty says: "After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you — for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye — 9 I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me.10 "Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. For I am coming, and I will live among you," declares the Lord. 11 "Many nations will be joined with the Lord in that day and will become my people. I will live among you and you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you. 12 The Lord will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem. 13 Be still before the Lord, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling."

Jeremiah 23:5-6
"The days are coming," declares the Lord,
"when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch,
a King who will reign wisely
and do what is just and right in the land.
6 In his days Judah will be saved
and Israel will live in safety.
This is the name by which he will be called:
The Lord Our Righteousness.

Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Isaiah 9:6-7
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David's throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord Almighty
will accomplish this.

Micah 5:2
"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Too little to be among the clans of Judah,
From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel.
His goings forth are from long ago,
From the days of eternity."

Daniel 7:9-14
I kept looking Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow,
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 "A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.
11 "Then I kept looking because of the sound of the boastful words which the horn was speaking; I kept looking until the beast was slain, and its body was destroyed and given to the burning fire. 12 "As for the rest of the beasts, their dominion was taken away, but an extension of life was granted to them for an appointed period of time.13 "I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 "And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations, and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.

Malachi 3:1-3
"Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the Lord of hosts. 2 "But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap. 3 "And He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the Lord offerings in righteousness.

Malachi 4:5-6
"Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the Lord. 6 "And he will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the land with a curse."

Zechariah 12:1-10
This is the word of the Lord concerning Israel. The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares: 2 "I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness," declares the Lord. "I will keep a watchful eye over the house of Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the leaders of Judah will say in their hearts, 'The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.'6 "On that day I will make the leaders of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume right and left all the surrounding peoples, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.7 "The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem's inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. 8 On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the Angel of the Lord going before them. 9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.

10 "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

Matthew 1:22-24
22 Now all this took place that what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet might be fulfilled, saying, 23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which translated means, "God with us."

hope this helps !!!
 
I love that. I have read a few debates, read the Bible a little bit too, and just have picked up on some things I've seen. Glory to God. Here's another one where Jesus is called the Son of God, yet identifies himself as the Son of Man. (This isn't a one-off occurrence either. Check out Matthew 16:13-17, Matthew 26:63-64, and Mark 14:61-62)

John 1
49“Rabbi,” Nathanael answered, “You are the Son of God! You are the King of Israel!”
50Jesus said to him, “Do you believe just because I told you I saw you under the fig tree? You will see greater things than these.” 51Then He declared, “Truly, truly, I tell you, you will all see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of Man.”
Thanks!
 
no light bulbs when one denies the Son.

no thanks
Where???? No one has denied the Son . . . thank you very much!
 
When He does not receive all glory, honor, worship and praise thats equal with the Father then by all means you are denying the Son.
Jesus deserves all glory, honor, worship and praise due him as the Son.
Yahweh, aka God the Father, deserves all glory, honor, worship and praise due him as the only true God.
 
Jesus deserves all glory, honor, worship and praise due him as the Son.
Yahweh, aka God the Father, deserves all glory, honor, worship and praise due him as the only true God.
nope no one except God can receive glory, honor, worship,praise unless the one receiving it is God or else its idolatry.

nice try
 
Jesus acknowledged being fully human. He equated being the Son of God with being the Son of Man. Since being the Son of God and the Son of Man are different titles for the same human, so there isn't a God Jesus and a human Jesus and there never was. For example, the Bible doesn't say that Jesus descended from heaven as the Son of God nor pre-existed as the Son of God. There are no examples of a pre-existent Son of God in the Old Testament. Jesus taught that he descended from heaven as the Son of Man which means he is a human, yet we know he isn't a heaven literally from the sky. This means Jesus was sent via God's foreknowledge and predestination just as the prophecies of the coming human Messiah state. The point is that being a Son of God is not only something Jesus is, but also something others can be and are themselves.

Jesus came from heaven as a human, but Jesus didn't pre-exist in heaven as a human:

John 3​
13No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.​
John 6​
62Then what will happen if you see the Son of Man ascend to where He was before?

Jesus equated being the Son of God to being human:

John 5​
25Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. 27And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

why is it a problem to admit Christ is deity ?

He is even in the OT... so obviously not bound by being in a perishable body with its limited 5 senses.
 
nope no one except God can receive glory, honor, worship,praise unless the one receiving it is God or else its idolatry.

nice try
Right, idolatry, which is why the Bible doesn't teach anything about worshipping or praying to Jesus.

God the Father is the Spirit who is to be worshipped:

John 5
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

Jesus is a man and not the Spirit:

Luke 24
39Look at My hands and My feet. It is I Myself. Touch Me and see—for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

I also might add, worshipping can be just bowing or kneeling to someone. It doesn't mean someone is being worshipped as God.
 
why is it a problem to admit Christ is deity ?

He is even in the OT... so obviously not bound by being in a perishable body with its limited 5 senses.
Well, it's a problem because that's not what the Bible teaches about who Jesus is.

Where is he in the Old Testament?
 
Right, idolatry, which is why the Bible doesn't teach anything about worshipping or praying to Jesus.

God the Father is the Spirit who is to be worshipped:

John 5
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

Jesus is a man and not the Spirit:

Luke 24
39Look at My hands and My feet. It is I Myself. Touch Me and see—for a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.”

I also might add, worshipping can be just bowing or kneeling to someone. It doesn't mean someone is being worshipped as God.
Thanks for admitting you deny the Son. We know Jesus said those who deny Him the Father will also deny.
 
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