All Claims of The Son's Deity

[mikesw]

"Unitarian" one hit wonders......

2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Oh. but he did not use the word for prayer here (προσεύχομαι). According to runningman, the word has to match what is in Matt 6:9 of the Lord's Prayer. I decided to save runningman the need to respond himself with his mistaken view.
Note: This response does not indicate my view.

 

[Peterlag]

You're committing the "singular fallacy". You're still stuck in the second grade. You made the comparison. Live with it.

John 1:1 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. It seems difficult for people to understand that John 1:1 is introducing the Gospel of John, and not the Book of Genesis. The topic of John is God (the Father, the only God) at work in the ministry of the man Jesus of Nazareth, not the creation of rocks, trees and stars.

 

[DavidTree]

John 1:1 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. It seems difficult for people to understand that John 1:1 is introducing the Gospel of John, and not the Book of Genesis. The topic of John is God (the Father, the only God) at work in the ministry of the man Jesus of Nazareth, not the creation of rocks, trees and stars.

John 1:1 is ABSOLUTERLY Teaching us, commanding us, of Who God is = PLURALITY

 

[Peterlag]

John 1:1 is ABSOLUTERLY Teaching us, commanding us, of Who God is = PLURALITY

You're still hung up on this plurality that I have already responded to.

 

[praise_yeshua]

John 1:1 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. It seems difficult for people to understand that John 1:1 is introducing the Gospel of John, and not the Book of Genesis. The topic of John is God (the Father, the only God) at work in the ministry of the man Jesus of Nazareth, not the creation of rocks, trees and stars.

I didn't say anything relative to your response. You made mistakes. Correct them. You're not responding to what I wrote. You're ignoring it.

 

[DavidTree]

You're still hung up on this plurality that I have already responded to.

JESUS hung on a cross for us and the sins of the world.

JESUS is HE who was the Word who was God in the beginning and came to earth in the flesh = Gospel of John

Escape being "hung up" for unbelief

 

[praise_yeshua]

You're still hung up on this plurality that I have already responded to.

Are you self sustaining?

 

[Runningman]

You're not paying attention. YOU believe that the Father and Son are two separate Masters.

You can't serve but ONE Master. You will love one and hate the other.

The hatred you have for Jesus Christ is on full display everywhere you go.

So you're not a trinitarian? In Trinitarianism, Father and Son are two seperate persons.

Father is the only true God = Person 1
Jesus Christ, the one God sent = Person 2

This verse debunks the trinitarian model of God:

John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

 

[Runningman]

"Unitarian" one hit wonders......

2Co 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2Co 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

You would tell Jesus that he used a "Unitarain one hit wonder" after he explicitly taught his disciples how to pray only to the Father? Something tells me you wouldn't make it as a real disicple of Christ with your constant debating of his teachings.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So you're not a trinitarian? In Trinitarianism, Father and Son are two seperate persons.

Father is the only true God = Person 1
Jesus Christ, the one God sent = Person 2

This verse debunks the trinitarian model of God:

John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

I didn't use the word "Person". You did. Stop playing this ungodly game with my Master, Jesus Christ.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You would tell Jesus that he used a "Unitarain one hit wonder" after he explicitly taught his disciples how to pray only to the Father? Something tells me you wouldn't make it as a real disicples of Christ with your constant debating of his teachings.

No. Jesus didn't teach that. You do. Jesus spoke extensively of how to pray. Jesus accepted prayer and answered prayer.

Again. You show your hatred for the work of Jesus Christ.

 

[Runningman]

I didn't use the word "Person". You did. Stop playing this ungodly game with my Master, Jesus Christ.

The technical terminology ("person," "essence," "substance") came later in the history of the church (e.g., at the Council of Nicaea, 325 AD) and are used in what is considered orthordox Trinitarianism.

Are you saying you disagree with orthodox Trinitariansm?

 

[Runningman]

No. Jesus didn't teach that. You do. Jesus spoke extensively of how to pray. Jesus accepted prayer and answered prayer.

Again. You show your hatred for the work of Jesus Christ.

Jesus explicitly instructed to pray to the Father in Matthew 6:6,9 and left no invitation to include anyone else in said prayer. There are no other instructions on who to pray to in the New Testament. Only the Father. I am just the messenger so your argument is not with me. Since you don't like Jesus' teachings, maybe you should take them up with Jesus.

Jesus teaches you are like a foolish man who built his house on sand. I hope you will decide to be wise and obey Jesus.

Matthew 7
24Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because its foundation was on the rock.
26But everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell—and great was its collapse!”

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus explicitly instructed to pray to the Father in Matthew 6:6,9 and left no invitation to include anyone else in said prayer.

Sure He did. We can see it in the actions of Jesus Himself. Pay attention to what Jesus did.

There are no other instructions on who to pray to in the New Testament. Only the Father. I am just the messenger so your argument is not with me. Since you don't like Jesus' teachings, maybe you should take them up with Jesus.

You're not a messenger. You're a deceiver.

Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Notice what Jesus said. You're not like Jesus.

Jesus teaches you are like a foolish man who built his house on sand. I hope you will decide to be wise and obey Jesus.

Matthew 7
24Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because its foundation was on the rock.
26But everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27The rain fell, the torrents raged, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell—and great was its collapse!”

I do listen to John 14:14. I ask things of Jesus. I appeal to His name. Jesus does them.

 

[Runningman]

Sure He did. We can see it in the actions of Jesus Himself. Pay attention to what Jesus did.

Matthew 6:6,9 contains the word "prayer" and to give it to the Father. That's it. There are no teachings to "pray" to Jesus.

You're not a messenger. You're a deceiver.

You are.

Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

Notice what Jesus said. You're not like Jesus.



I do listen to John 14:14. I ask things of Jesus. I appeal to His name. Jesus does them.

If that is a teaching to pray to Jesus, which it isn't, then Jesus taught to not pray to him after that.

John 16
23In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.

 

[Peterlag]

I didn't say anything relative to your response. You made mistakes. Correct them. You're not responding to what I wrote. You're ignoring it.

I ignore a lot of your stuff since most does not make sense.

 

[Peterlag]

More data on John 1:1...​

John 1:1 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should believe or confess that Jesus is God. It seems difficult for people to understand that John 1:1 is introducing the Gospel of John, and not the Book of Genesis. The topic of John is God (the Father, the only God) at work in the ministry of the man Jesus of Nazareth, not the creation of rocks, trees and stars.

Jesus Christ is not a lexical definition of logos. The verse does not say "In the beginning was Jesus." The "Word" is not synonymous with Jesus, or even the "Messiah." The word logos in John 1:1 refers to God's creative self-expression... His reason, purpose and plans, especially as they are brought into action. It refers to God's self-expression or communication of Himself. This has come to pass through His creation and especially the heavens. It has come through the spoken word of the prophets and through Scripture. Most notably it has come into being through His Son. The logos is the expression of God and is His communication of Himself just as a "word" is an outward expression of a person's thoughts. This outward expression of God has now occurred through His Son and thus it's perfectly understandable why Jesus is called the "Word." Jesus is an outward expression of God's reason, wisdom, purpose and plan. For the same reason we call revelation "a word from God" and the Bible "the Word of God."

If we understand that the logos is God's expression... His plan, purpose, reason and wisdom. Then it's clear they were with Him "in the beginning." Scripture says God's wisdom was "from the beginning" and it was common in Hebrew writing to personify a concept such as wisdom. The fact that the logos "became" flesh shows it did not exist that way before. There is no pre-existence for Jesus in this verse other than his figurative "existence" as the plan, purpose or wisdom of God for the salvation of man. The same is true with the "word" in writing. It had no literal pre-existence as a "spirit-book" somehow in eternity past, but came into being as God gave the revelation to people and they wrote it down.

A friend put it this way... "The word logos (Word) denotes (I) "the expression of thought" as embodying a conception or idea. λόγος logos, is something said (including the thought). So the word logos means an expression of thought. It makes perfect sense if we use this understanding everywhere the word logos is used. So in John 1:1 the Word is not Jesus, but rather it became flesh, which is God's expression of thought or plan that became flesh with the coming of Jesus Christ."

 

[praise_yeshua]

Matthew 6:6,9 contains the word "prayer" and to give it to the Father. That's it. There are no teachings to "pray" to Jesus.

Not in Matthew 6:6. I never said otherwise. Matthew only referenced a single event. Jesus said more than what you're referencing.

If that is a teaching to pray to Jesus, which it isn't, then Jesus taught to not pray to him after that.

I referenced John 14:14 you deceiver/liar. You're ignoring this "deceiver/liar". I'm not ignoring other things Jesus said. You're the deceiver. Not me.

John 16
23In that day you will no longer ask Me anything. Truly, truly, I tell you, whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.

So you're getting everything you ask of the Father? I bet you're not. Why are you lying about it.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I ignore a lot of your stuff since most does not make sense.

Try again. Tell me what part doesn't "make sense".

 

[praise_yeshua]

View attachment 2167

"it" doesn't help you at all. The word "it" in English is rather generic. You qualify for it but so does God.

You know... "it's me".....

Second grade student shouldn't pretend to be otherwise. You're an a mediocre student....

BTW... I already know you've written "a book".