All Claims of The Son's Deity
- Thread starter Johann
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MTMattie
Active Member
We know who was here in the flesh.
Johann
Active Member
I believe you have the wrong reference brother
Heb 11:1 NOW FAITH is the assurance (the confirmation, the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].
J.
You quote paraphrase translations that changed the original wordings of the Bible. It don’t have Strong numbers so we could not check their defintions through Bible lexicons. Many will be misled by paraphrase Bible translations especially those who heavily relied to them.
I will quote to you Bible translations that aims to maintain the highest degree of accuracy to the original languages, in this case Greek. And it has Strong Concordance.
That proves without doubt that Jesus in the nature of being God just like the Father stated in Acts 17:29 and Rom 1:20. I already had posted Bible lexicon definition of “Deity/Godhead) and the definition as the “state or nature of God.
Col 2:9 For in Him all G3956 the R1 fullness G4138 of Deity G2320 dwells G2730 in bodily G4985 form G4985 ,(NASB+)
Col 2:9 For G3754 in G1722 him G846 dwelleth G2730 all G3956 the G3588 fulness G4138 of the G3588 Godhead G2320 bodily. G4985 (KJV)
Col 2:9 For in Him all G3956 the R1 fullness G4138 of Deity G2320 dwells G2730 in bodily G4985 form G4985 , (NAS95+)
Col 2:9 For in Him all G3956 the R1 fullness G4138 of Deity G2320 dwells G2730 bodily G4985 , (LSB+)
Col 2:9 For G3754 in G1722 him G1473 dwells G2730 all G3956 the G3588 fullness G4138 of the G3588 deity G2320 bodily. G4985 (ABP+)
101G
Active Member
101G
Active Member
Peterlag
Active Member
1. Where did Jesus or the apostles ever name the doctrine of the Trinity?
Don’t tell us what later church councils said. Where did Jesus teach it? Where did the apostles explain it?
2. Where did Jesus or the apostles ever describe God as “three persons in one essence”?
Give chapter and verse—no creeds, no analogies, no philosophy. Just show us where they said it.
3. If God is truly three coequal persons, why did Jesus say “the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28), and “I can do nothing of Myself” (John 5:30)?
Was Jesus lying? Or are you forcing theology into the text?
4. If the Holy Spirit is a third coequal divine person, why does Jesus say the Father will send the Spirit in His name after He prays (John 14:16, 26)?
If the Spirit is fully God, why does He need to be sent? And why does Jesus have to ask?
5. If Jesus is coequal with the Father, why is He called “a man approved by God” (Acts 2:22), and why does Paul say “God has made this Jesus both Lord and Christ” (Acts 2:36)?
Are you claiming Jesus was “made Lord” in appearance only? Was His humanity just a shell?
Don’t tell us what later church councils said. Where did Jesus teach it? Where did the apostles explain it?
2. Where did Jesus or the apostles ever describe God as “three persons in one essence”?
Give chapter and verse—no creeds, no analogies, no philosophy. Just show us where they said it.
3. If God is truly three coequal persons, why did Jesus say “the Father is greater than I” (John 14:28), and “I can do nothing of Myself” (John 5:30)?
Was Jesus lying? Or are you forcing theology into the text?
4. If the Holy Spirit is a third coequal divine person, why does Jesus say the Father will send the Spirit in His name after He prays (John 14:16, 26)?
If the Spirit is fully God, why does He need to be sent? And why does Jesus have to ask?
5. If Jesus is coequal with the Father, why is He called “a man approved by God” (Acts 2:22), and why does Paul say “God has made this Jesus both Lord and Christ” (Acts 2:36)?
Are you claiming Jesus was “made Lord” in appearance only? Was His humanity just a shell?
Indeed this is a fine example of a hyper-literalist post where the essence of Christ is rejected because the interpreter thinks that scripture cannot be integrated and summarized beyond the surface content of scripture. Worse yet, much of the scripture content and mysteries have to be rejected because they are outside of the hyper-literalist reading.
Some Arianists try to post repetitive content hoping that people will fall for it do to extreme repetition and denial of opposing facts found in scripture.
1. If you can show a verse that the apostles also named the Bible as the Scriptures.
Concept of Trinity mentioned in Matt 28:19.
2. Acts 17:29, Rom 1:20, Col 2:9 and Acts 5:3-4. They are one in the nature of God in three distinct persons.
3. All the Father had are mine. (John 16:15) That's equality. Father is greater than Jesus is what is called "relational subordination".
4. The Father also sent Jesus. They three have different roles in saving mankind but that does not mean they are not one in the nature of God.
5. That is when Jesus in human nature. Is Jesus words wrong in John 16:15?
In the hyper-literalist reading, the lack of a direct statement of Jesus saying "I am of the Godhead and now incarnated" makes it impossible that Jesus actually is of the essence of his Father. John 1 reveals this incarnation in a logical presentation but is denied by Peterlag in his rejection of the metaphoric language of logos -- of Jesus as the message of God to the people. For Peterlag, the dictionaries or lexicons would have to list Jesus under the definition of "word"/"logos." But metaphoric applications of words do not generally become part of definitions of those words.
101G
Active Member
not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." him here is in reference to the Word, the Son right? now this, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
my brother, think before you answer please. is the person in John 1:3 the same person in Isaiah 44:24 that "MADE ALL THINGS?" a yes or no will do, think you.
101G.
Johann
Active Member
Very simple--IF you can call God's holy scriptures "simple"
Isaiah 44:24 (KJV):
"Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb: I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
Key Hebrew Verbs:
עֹשֶׂה (ʿōśeh) - "that maketh" (Qal participle of עָשָׂה, ʿāsāh)
Meaning: To make, to do, to accomplish.
Usage: Frequently used to denote God’s creative acts (e.g., Genesis 1:7).
נֹטֶה (nōṭeh) - "that stretcheth" (Qal participle of נָטָה, nāṭāh)
Meaning: To stretch out, extend.
Conveys the idea of spreading out the heavens like a canopy.
רֹקַע (rōqaʿ) - "that spreadeth abroad" (Qal participle of רָקַע, rāqaʿ)
Meaning: To spread out, beat out.
Often used for spreading out the earth (Psalm 136:6).
Contextual Point:
The LORD (YHWH) is speaking as the sole creator, emphasizing that He created the heavens and earth alone (לְבַדִּי - levaddi).
This shows monotheism-YHWH alone as the creator.
John 1:3 (KJV):
"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
Key Greek Verb:
ἐγένετο (egeneto) - "were made" (Aorist Indicative Middle of γίνομαι, ginomai)
Meaning: To come into being, to become, to be made.
In John 1:3, it denotes the act of creation, specifically through the Word (Logos).
Contextual Point:
The Logos (Word) is identified as the agent of creation, with nothing existing apart from His creative action.
The phrase "without him was not any thing made" is an emphatic statement on the comprehensive creative role of the Logos.
In Isaiah 44:24, YHWH explicitly states that He created all things alone and by Himself.
In John 1:3, the Word is presented as the agent of creation, through whom everything came into existence.
The Hebrew verb עֹשֶׂה (ʿōśeh) in Isaiah 44:24 directly corresponds to the creative act of making.
^^^^^
The Greek verb ἐγένετο (egeneto) in John 1:3 also signifies creation but attributes it to the Word.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Since both passages assert complete and exclusive creative acts, the conclusion is that the Word (Logos) in John 1:3 and YHWH in Isaiah 44:24 must be the same divine person.
Same person in John 1:3 (the Word) and the person in Isaiah 44:24 (YHWH) are the same as the Creator of all things.
J.
101G
Active Member
To all,
God is the "Diversity" or the "EQUAL SHARE" of HIMSELF that was to come in flesh. God is NOT three separate and distinct persons. he is ONE person Diversified, or as the Greek states, G243 Allos of himself.
Genesis 1:1 is Clear, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." here God is describe as a plurality, but a plurality of WHAT? this is the answer to solve. is God a plurality of PERSONS, or a plurality of NATURES "of" one persons. would that be two Gods? no, if it's a EQUAL SHARE of the same one person, then it would be an "ECHAD" of one, just as the bible says. notice 101G has highlighted the prepositions "of" in bold blue for a reason. it is to draw your attention to it.
God: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433
Compare: H5945, H7706, H8199, H4397
[plural of H433]
yes, the plural "of" H433.... so who or what is H433? let's see,
H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410
now are we getting this? "ONE", if this is a separate and distinct person, then one have TWO separate and distinct GODS. but the key to understanding this plurality is in the term "OF", just as the definition states, [plural of H433]
what do this prepositions ... "of" means? using the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, "OF" means, "sometimes implies a part or share". share? yes, is the KEY to "OF" in understanding God's plurality "of" himself. so, God: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the EQUAL SHARE of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) that was to come in flesh.
can we back this concept up, of "EQUAL SHARE" in the bible? yes, let's see this EQUAL SHARE in the NT first. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
step #1. The "FORM" of God. Form is the Greek term,
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature?. yes, in PART or SHARE. so, which one is it? the answer is in the root of Form,
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
2. a part.
3. (as an adverb) partly, in part.
STOP, we need not go any further. notice the term a portion in definition #1... guess what it is synonyms with? that's right "SHARE" this can be found at Word Hippo, https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/portion.html
When Used a a NOUN in "A part of a whole".
so, we see that God: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the EQUAL SHARE of HIMSELF, God: H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah)
what a revelation by this one little simple word .... "of". with this revelation.... it answers all and every question concerning the Godhead, and it's fullness.
as stated my sources for this revelation is the Holy Spirit, as teacher.
the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, and the
Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments
with is information, there is no question that this research cannot answer concerning the Godhead. and all of my research here can be reproduce with the sources given.
Conclusion:
101G stated, God is a "Diversity" or the "EQUAL SHARE" of HIMSELF that was to come in flesh. so, is this term "DIVERSITY" in the bible? yes, *but hidden in plain sight), and it's through out the bible. just one clear example. Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
the Greek term "OFFSPRING" is,
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096
this, "kin" who is the diversity to the "ROOT or EQUAL SHARE .... "of" ... the ROOT is the KINsman Redeemer. now, let's see this KINsman Redeemer in the OT. scripture, Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones."
this Hebrew term "FELLOW" here means,
H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') n-m.
1. companionship.
2. (hence, concretely) a comrade or kindred man.
[from a primitive root meaning to associate]
KJV: another, fellow, neighbour.
Notice definition #2 "kindred man", yes, the KINSMAM REDEEMER, or the DIVERSITY of the ROOT in Revelation 22:16. simply put .... the Diversity/Offspring/God H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') the EQUAL SHARE, of, of, of, God H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) is the FIRST/ Father/CREATOR. this is why the Lord Jesus said in Matthews 19:4 ... "HE" a single person, "GOD" made them male and female in the beginning. oh this is so easy. if the Lord Jesus say God is a "HE" ... and he do not LIE, what's our problem? why we cannot believe God?
so, the same person in the ECHAD of God is the First and the Last of himself that was to come in flesh. and please NOTE, H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') FELLOW in the Hebrew at Zechariah 13:7 can be translated as .... "ANOTHER". BINGO, just as 101G said, Another as G243 ALLOS.
this is just to easy.
101G.
God is the "Diversity" or the "EQUAL SHARE" of HIMSELF that was to come in flesh. God is NOT three separate and distinct persons. he is ONE person Diversified, or as the Greek states, G243 Allos of himself.
Genesis 1:1 is Clear, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." here God is describe as a plurality, but a plurality of WHAT? this is the answer to solve. is God a plurality of PERSONS, or a plurality of NATURES "of" one persons. would that be two Gods? no, if it's a EQUAL SHARE of the same one person, then it would be an "ECHAD" of one, just as the bible says. notice 101G has highlighted the prepositions "of" in bold blue for a reason. it is to draw your attention to it.
God: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433
Compare: H5945, H7706, H8199, H4397
[plural of H433]
yes, the plural "of" H433.... so who or what is H433? let's see,
H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410
now are we getting this? "ONE", if this is a separate and distinct person, then one have TWO separate and distinct GODS. but the key to understanding this plurality is in the term "OF", just as the definition states, [plural of H433]
what do this prepositions ... "of" means? using the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, "OF" means, "sometimes implies a part or share". share? yes, is the KEY to "OF" in understanding God's plurality "of" himself. so, God: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the EQUAL SHARE of H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) that was to come in flesh.
can we back this concept up, of "EQUAL SHARE" in the bible? yes, let's see this EQUAL SHARE in the NT first. Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
step #1. The "FORM" of God. Form is the Greek term,
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature?. yes, in PART or SHARE. so, which one is it? the answer is in the root of Form,
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
2. a part.
3. (as an adverb) partly, in part.
STOP, we need not go any further. notice the term a portion in definition #1... guess what it is synonyms with? that's right "SHARE" this can be found at Word Hippo, https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/another-word-for/portion.html
When Used a a NOUN in "A part of a whole".
so, we see that God: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is the EQUAL SHARE of HIMSELF, God: H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah)
what a revelation by this one little simple word .... "of". with this revelation.... it answers all and every question concerning the Godhead, and it's fullness.
as stated my sources for this revelation is the Holy Spirit, as teacher.
the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, and the
Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments
with is information, there is no question that this research cannot answer concerning the Godhead. and all of my research here can be reproduce with the sources given.
Conclusion:
101G stated, God is a "Diversity" or the "EQUAL SHARE" of HIMSELF that was to come in flesh. so, is this term "DIVERSITY" in the bible? yes, *but hidden in plain sight), and it's through out the bible. just one clear example. Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
the Greek term "OFFSPRING" is,
G1085 γένος genos (ǰe'-nos) n.
kin.
{abstract or concrete, literal or figurative, individual or collective}
[from G1096]
KJV: born, country(-man), diversity, generation, kind(-red), nation, offspring, stock
Root(s): G1096
this, "kin" who is the diversity to the "ROOT or EQUAL SHARE .... "of" ... the ROOT is the KINsman Redeemer. now, let's see this KINsman Redeemer in the OT. scripture, Zechariah 13:7 "Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones."
this Hebrew term "FELLOW" here means,
H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') n-m.
1. companionship.
2. (hence, concretely) a comrade or kindred man.
[from a primitive root meaning to associate]
KJV: another, fellow, neighbour.
Notice definition #2 "kindred man", yes, the KINSMAM REDEEMER, or the DIVERSITY of the ROOT in Revelation 22:16. simply put .... the Diversity/Offspring/God H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') the EQUAL SHARE, of, of, of, God H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) is the FIRST/ Father/CREATOR. this is why the Lord Jesus said in Matthews 19:4 ... "HE" a single person, "GOD" made them male and female in the beginning. oh this is so easy. if the Lord Jesus say God is a "HE" ... and he do not LIE, what's our problem? why we cannot believe God?
so, the same person in the ECHAD of God is the First and the Last of himself that was to come in flesh. and please NOTE, H5997 עָמִית `amiyth (aw-meeth') FELLOW in the Hebrew at Zechariah 13:7 can be translated as .... "ANOTHER". BINGO, just as 101G said, Another as G243 ALLOS.
this is just to easy.
101G.
101G
Active Member
101G
Active Member
an agent of creation? are you kidding. let's kill this agent none-sense. Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
so, tell us if God was "ALONE" how can he go through someone else? for the term "ALONE" means, having no one else present: so if no one else was present who did he go through? see your error now.
now the through misunderstanding. see what Isaiah said, "By myself". the term "BY" means through, listen and Learn, using the Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary of American English, BY:
BY, prep.
1. Near; close; as, sit by me; that house stands by a river.
[L. pressus.]
2. Near, in motion; as, to move, go or pass by a church. But it seems, in other phrases,or with a verb in the past time, to signify past, gone beyond. "The procession is gone by;" "the hour is gone by;" "John went by." We now use past as an equivalent word. The procession is gone past. Gone by is in strictness tautology, as now used; but I apprehend by signifies primarily near.
3. Through, or with, denoting the agent, means, instrument or cause; as, "a city is destroyed by fire;" "profit is made by commerce;" "to take by force." This use answers to that of the Latin per, through, denoting a passing, acting, agency, or instrumentality.
see definition #3. the AGENT was HIMSELF.... my God how hard is it? he was "ALONE" and "BY" ...... HIMSELF.
so, you're reproved.
101G
MTMattie
Active Member
Yet...
John 1:14 makes the comment that " 14And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
Ergo, we should agree that if the Word is Jesus..... and that the Word in John 1:3 is the same divine person as YHWH in Isaiah 44;24 that Jesus is the same Divine person as the Word.
Does that or does it not make sense?
How THEN do you tie in the Holy Spirit as being the same as YHWH and Jesus/Word? Is there a verse? Many, many, many on here say the Spirit is part of YHWH... THAT THEY ARE ONE.
AND while you are at it then please explain why in
Matt 3:
16When Jesus came up out of the water, the heavens opened. He saw the Spirit of God coming down and resting on Jesus like a dove.
17 A voice was heard from heaven. It said, “This is My much-loved Son. I am very happy with Him.”
Mark 1:
10 Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him;
11 and a voice came out of the heavens: “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”
Luke 3:
21 Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus was also baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened,
22 and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”
NOW 2 Corinthians 13: 1 tells us.
13 This is the third time I am coming to you. Every FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OF THREE WITNESSES.
so......................
Matthew makes one (1)
Mark makes two (2)
Luke makes three (3) WHO SAY THE SAME THING.
I ASK.... IF YHWH the Heavenly Father is one and the same with Jesus the Word and the Holy Spirit.... which to me makes a trinity....
THEN PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW IT IS POSSIBLE AT HIS BAPTISM
We are shown Jesus coming up out of the water................... AS ENTITY #1
We are shown the Holy Spirit descending onto Jesus.......... AS ENTITY #2
We are told the voice from heaven... YHWH/ Father God.... AS ENTITY #3
THEY ALL COULD BE SEPARATE IF THEY ALL ARE ONE ?
MTMattie
Active Member
I just posted the following on
https://berean-apologetics.communit...ms-of-the-sons-deity.2185/page-37#post-165851
reply # 737 to @Johann
What you are saying does not track in this instance. Unless you completely understand how 2 can be one flesh (later).
I await his reply... and also yours
How THEN do you tie in the Holy Spirit as being the same as YHWH and Jesus/Word? Is there a verse? Many, many, many on here say the Spirit is part of YHWH... THAT THEY ARE ONE.
AND while you are at it then please explain why in
Matt 3:
16When Jesus came up out of the water, the heavens opened. He saw the Spirit of God coming down and resting on Jesus like a dove.
17 A voice was heard from heaven. It said, “This is My much-loved Son. I am very happy with Him.”
Mark 1:
10 Immediately coming up out of the water, He saw the heavens opening, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon Him;
11 and a voice came out of the heavens: “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”
Luke 3:
21 Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus was also baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened,
22 and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.”
NOW 2 Corinthians 13: 1 tells us.
13 This is the third time I am coming to you. Every FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OF THREE WITNESSES.
so......................
Matthew makes one (1)
Mark makes two (2)
Luke makes three (3) WHO SAY THE SAME THING.
I ASK.... IF YHWH the Heavenly Father is one and the same with Jesus the Word and the Holy Spirit.... which to me makes a trinity....
THEN PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW IT IS POSSIBLE AT HIS BAPTISM
We are shown Jesus coming up out of the water................... AS ENTITY #1
We are shown the Holy Spirit descending onto Jesus.......... AS ENTITY #2
We are told the voice from heaven... YHWH/ Father God.... AS ENTITY #3
THEY ALL COULD BE SEPARATE IF THEY ALL ARE ONE ?
Is it that you @101G feel YHWH the Heavenly Father is a ventriloquist so when He was decending on Jesus He threw His voice to the Heavens? But that does not explain how Jesus is incorporated with them.
Is it that yopu believe that at will God can separate... similar to an amoeba... to be in different places at the same time?
HOW>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
101G
Active Member
yes, it makes sense, for the LORD is the Lord shared in flesh ... that was the come. did you not read? John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
yes God was made flesh, this is the ECHAD of God made flesh.
101G.
Peterlag
Active Member
There's no verse in the Bible that says we should believe or confess that Jesus is God.
There is not one verse that says Jesus is God the Son. Nor has there ever been a teaching on it anywhere in the Bible. A teaching... a whole paragraph or chapter. The Jews never saw it anywhere in the entire Old Testament nor anyone in the New Testament ever taught it. The Catholics who invented this nonsense have used only about 8 verses that they have to piece together from statements that are scattered all over the New Testament. One should think if such nonsense was true and important that it would have been taught by someone. And it is not.
All you folks ever put in front of me are bits and pieces of words and half verses that are scattered all over the Bible. If there is a trinity then why not just come out and say it? Why do we have to jump all over the Bible cutting and pasting pieces of words that are scattered all over the Bible? Why not just teach it? I know enough about how the Bible is written in the New Testament and in the Gospels to know if there was a trinity it would have been taught. The Gospels would have clearly said...
Verily, verily I say unto you that I am Jesus and I'm also God.
The Epistles would have writings like...
Yay, I Paul do testify that Jesus who is God came down from heaven to be a man for us. And we do know and testify that this same Jesus who you crucified is God. And so let us bow our knee to the one and only true God-Man Jesus Christ.
And yet there's nothing like that anywhere. Not in the Old or New Testament. Not even one complete verse like that.
