All Claims of The Son's Deity

[TomL]

GINOLJC, to all.
that is what you noted? Good, not saying that you're right or wrong, but maybe in ERROR? .......

No I am correct for I agree with what scripture shows

One person had sent two other persons

the fact these two persons were deity shows a trinity

well you're not alone, a many of scholars have said the same thing also. so ...... you're in good company. but there is just one little, 101G repeat, just a little problem, and here it is. if the Lord God is your Yahweh, then it's the same Lord God, "Yahweh", in Revelation who sent his angel to John correct? let's examine what was said in the book of Revelation, for it is the book of REVEALING. scripture, Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God

gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:" God here in the verse who sent his angel is your Lord God... "Yahweh", correct... because the angel who was sent said, the Lord God of the Holy Prophets sent him, Listen, Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." as said, a many of scholars have said, yes, the "Lord God" ..... of the Holy Prophets ...... who sent his angel here is the Yahweh God of the O.T. for he is the "God" of the Holy Prophets, just as the angel said here in Revelation 22:6. the angel said, " the Lord God of the holy prophets sent him" to John , please read Revelation 22:6 again if you have any questions about that.

BUT HERE IS THAT LITTLE, LITTLE, PROBLEM 101G spoke of. because just 10 verses later, here in chapter 22 the bible states this, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

see the "LITTLE" problem now. the Lord God is "JESUS", yes, the Lord God of the Holy Prophets, (as in Isaiah 48), just as the angel said who was sent, read revelation 22:6 again.

Um trinity theology holds The father is God, the Spirit is God and Jesus is God

but you have a problem

God gave to Jesus the revelation. We have a distinction here. One gave and one received, that is not one person.

Revelation 1:1 (LEB) — 1 The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his slaves the things which must take place in a short time, and communicated it by sending it through his angel to his slave John,

now this is the "LITTLE" problem.... since the Lord God is "JESUS" let's go back to Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD (JESUS), and his Spirit, hath sent me." so, care to explain A. who was sent. and B. Who is really speaking here in Isaiah 48? looking to hear your answer to both question.

in MUCH G.L.

101G.

You have a second problem here you assumed the lord God references Jesus not the Yahweh who who sent the speaker and the spirit

further my translation read

Isaiah 48:12–16 (LEB) — 12 “Listen to me, Jacob, and Israel, whom I called: I am he. I am the first; also I am the last. 13 Indeed, my hand founded the earth, and my right hand spread out the heavens; when I summon them, they stand in position together. 14 Assemble, all of you, and hear! Who among them declared these things? Yahweh loves him; he shall perform his wish against Babylon and his arm against the Chaldeans. 15 I, I myself, I have spoken! Indeed, I have called him. I have brought him, and he will be successful in his way. 16 Draw near to me; hear this! I have not spoken in secrecy from the beginning; from the time it came to be, there I have been; And now the Lord Yahweh has sent me and his Spirit.”


So Lord Yahweh sent he who is the first and the last, he who founded the earth and spread out the heavens along with his spirit

No matter how you count it, we have three here.

We have the Yahweh who sent both the creator speaking and the Spirit

 

[101G]

No I am correct for I agree with what scripture shows

One person had sent two other persons

the fact these two persons were deity shows a trinity

TomL, TomL O TomL. one person sent by two. that Revelation 22:16 got you..... did it not? ... (smile). Oh well let's see. the Spirit, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." LISTEN, ....... John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

did you get that? do you understand who the comforter is? .... YES the Lord God of the holy prophets, yes, JESUS. listen and Learn, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

What and WHO is the advocate? let's see. it is the Greek word,
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822
now did not the Lord Jesus say, John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."
and did he not come in Spirit? yes, the Spirit, the SAME Spirit in Isaiah 48... (smile). let's see it, Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." one more, Luke 9:27 "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." this is audience relevance. did he, the Spirit JESUS the Lord God come on the day of Pentecost? yes, listen, John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." is not the KINGDOM WITHIN US? let's see, Luke 17:21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." what did the Lord Jesus say? "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

now TomL, who is the TRUTH? John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." and did not the Lord Jesus say he will not LEAVE US COMFORTLESS, because he will be in US.... Hello.

Read your bible .... PLEASE. with the Spirit of TRUTH, the Lord Jesus, the COMFORTER, who is the advocate....
Oh my this is too easy.

do you understand now?

in MUCH G.L.

101G

 

[Peterlag]

When you do not discuss the issue I raised of personal pre-existence as demonstrated in Phil 2:5-8 and you address other issues that I have not raised, that is indeed running.

Did Christ not exist in the form of God and was he not capable of thinking or considering having had a mind before becoming a man?

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

If you said to me there are green men who fly above the clouds with birds. And you wanted me to talk about them. It would not be running away from speaking about them if I said there are no green men flying with birds. Thus, I would not be avoiding the conversation. I would not be dodging the conversation. And I would not be running away from the conversation. Can you understand that?

 

[TomL]

If you said to me there are green men who fly above the clouds with birds. And you wanted me to talk about them. It would not be running away from speaking about them if I said there are no green men flying with birds. Thus, I would not be avoiding the conversation. I would not be dodging the conversation. And I would not be running away from the conversation. Can you understand that?

Sorry you have not discussed the evidence seen in Philippians 2:5-8

Issuing a bald denial is not engaging with the issue

it is running from the facts found in the passage

When you do not discuss the issue I raised of personal pre-existence as demonstrated in Phil 2:5-8 and you address other issues that I have not raised, that is indeed running.

Did Christ not exist in the form of God and was he not capable of thinking or considering having had a mind before becoming a man?

Philippians 2:5–8 (KJV 1900) — 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

 

[civic]

You are dodging the point once again.

Pre-existence is the issue the passage is quoted for, and you just want to talk about other things

Are you not capable of rebutting the point and so you avoid it?

nice job in this thread brother

 

[Peterlag]

Sorry you have not discussed the evidence seen in Philippians 2:5-8

Issuing a bald denial is not engaging with the issue

it is running from the facts found in the passage

There are no facts or evidence concerning the per-existence of Christ because there's no trinity mentioned in Philippians 2:6. And I have already commented on it in great detail. Here I will comment on it again...

Philippians 2:6 is not a teaching on the trinity or that we should confess or believe that Jesus is God. After saying that Christ was in the form of God, Philippians 2:6 goes on to say that Christ “considered being equal with God not something to be grasped at.” If Jesus were God, then it would make no sense at all to say that he did not “grasp” at equality with God because no one grasps at equality with himself. Some Trinitarians say, “Well, he was not grasping for equality with the Father.” That is not what the verse says. It says Christ did not grasp at equality with God, which makes the verse nonsense if he were God.

The Greek word morphē does not refer to the essential nature of Christ in that context. If the point of the verse is to say that Jesus is God, then why not just say that? If Jesus is God, say that, don’t say he has the “essential nature of God.” Of course God has the “essential nature” of God, so why would anyone make that point? This verse does not say “Jesus being God” but rather “being in the form of God.” Paul is reminding the Philippians that Jesus represented the Father in every possible way.

From the Septuagint and their other writings, the Jews were familiar with morphē referring to the outward appearance, including the form of men and idols. To the Greeks, it also referred to the outward appearance, including the changing outward appearance of their gods and the form of statues. The only other New Testament use of morphē outside Philippians is in Mark, and there it refers to the outward appearance. Also, the words related to morphē clearly refer to an outward manifestation or appearance. The word morphē refers to an outward appearance or manifestation. Jesus Christ was in the outward appearance of God, so much so that he said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father.” Christ always did the Father’s will, and perfectly represented his Father in every way.

 

[101G]

@TomL, AND @Peterlag,
The Lord Jesus existed ... Always.... forever. he never preexisted. the Christ ... that flesh bone and blood, (the Son of God), that came out of Mary did not always exist.

101G.

 

[101G]

There are no facts or evidence concerning the per-existence of Christ because there's no trinity mentioned in Philippians 2:6. And I have already commented on it in great detail. Here I will comment on it again...

the Christ was to come. but as to Philippians 2:6 that, "who being" .... in the form, (Spirit) is and existing always.

101G

 

[Foster]

I choose to believe in the Trinity, some people choose not to. But the Trinity and Jesus’ deity is cleared affirmed in John’s gospel. It reads, “In the beginning was the Word, that is, the Logos, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John1:1

In that first sentence, we see the mystery of the Trinity, because the Logos is said to have been with God from the beginning. There are different terms in the Greek language that can be translated by the English word with, but the word that is used here suggests the closest possible relationship, virtually a face-to-face relationship. I like how John makes a distinction between the Logos and God. God and the Logos are together, but they are not the same.

 

[Dizerner]

In that first sentence, we see the mystery of the Trinity

Trinity means 3, there's only 2 there.

Just pointing that out, lol.

 

[101G]

I choose to believe in the Trinity, some people choose not to. But the Trinity and Jesus’ deity is cleared affirmed in John’s gospel. It reads, “In the beginning was the Word, that is, the Logos, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” John1:1

Greeting,
but do not John 1:1 confirm the word of God that it is only ONE PERSON in John 1:1. understand the Word was ... "WITH" .... God right? now scripture, to LEARN and UNDERSTAND the Godhead. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." here the LORD, all cap is "WITH" the Last.... just as the Word in John 1:1 was ... "WITH" ... God correct.
now this, Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." also? yes, for the term ALSO means, in addition; too. so, in addition to being the First, he the LORD is ... "ALSO" ... the Last who he is ... "WITH" . just as in John 1:1 the Word is "ALSO"/WITH God who in addition is God..... the same one Person. only Diversified, or the ECHAD of himself in flesh.

101G.

 

[Foster]

I choose to believe in the Trinity, as 3 in one. Some people choose 2 some 1.

 

[101G]

Trinity means 3, there's only 2 there.

Just pointing that out, lol.

Correct, the "EQUAL SHARE" of God himself in Flesh.... which is the ECHAD of God that was to come, or the ARM of God in Flesh. scripture, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

101G.

 

[101G]

I choose to believe in the Trinity, as 3 in one. Some people choose 2 some 1.

question, if the trinity is Three Person and One Spirit, then is the Spirit in Isaiah 48:16 three persons? "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

101G

 

[101G]

@TomL, @Peterlag, and @civic
the same question 101G asked our brother Foster. question, if the trinity is Three Persons in One Spirit, then is the Spirit in Isaiah 48:16 three persons? "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

in MUCH G.L.

101G

 

[TomL]

TomL, TomL O TomL. one person sent by two. that Revelation 22:16 got you..... did it not? ... (smile). Oh well let's see. the Spirit, John 14:16 "And I will

You are confused. It is two persons sent by one

That is still three

pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." LISTEN, ....... John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."

did you get that? do you understand who the comforter is? .... YES the Lord God of the holy prophets, yes, JESUS. listen and Learn, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

Let's see Jesus is praying to the Father - that would be two

He will send another comforter - that would be three persons

The three persons would be one being

The passage reflects a trinitarian understanding

The Holy Spirit is another, not the same comforter.

This other comforter is of the same nature and essence as the devine Christ and establishes the nature of Christ in us and that is why it can be said I will come to you while another comforter is spoken of

Your position cannot account for that and thus is an error

This

What and WHO is the advocate? let's see. it is the Greek word,
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822
now did not the Lord Jesus say, John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."
and did he not come in Spirit? yes, the Spirit, the SAME Spirit in Isaiah 48... (smile). let's see it, Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." one more, Luke 9:27 "But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God." this is audience relevance. did he, the Spirit JESUS the Lord God come on the day of Pentecost? yes, listen, John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you." is not the KINGDOM WITHIN US? let's see, Luke 17:21 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." what did the Lord Jesus say? "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

now TomL, who is the TRUTH? John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." and did not the Lord Jesus say he will not LEAVE US COMFORTLESS, because he will be in US.... Hello.

Read your bible .... PLEASE. with the Spirit of TRUTH, the Lord Jesus, the COMFORTER, who is the advocate....
Oh my this is too easy.

do you understand now?

in MUCH G.L.

101G

 

[TomL]

@TomL, @Peterlag, and @civic
the same question 101G asked our brother Foster. question, if the trinity is Three Persons in One Spirit, then is the Spirit in Isaiah 48:16 three persons? "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

in MUCH G.L.

101G

You mean three persons in one being or one God.

Your last sentence

"Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

does indeed speak of three persons

but once again

Isaiah 48:16 (LEB) — 16 Draw near to me; hear this! I have not spoken in secrecy from the beginning; from the time it came to be, there I have been; And now the Lord Yahweh has sent me and his Spirit.”

Yahweh sent the speaker and his Spirit

Three all together

 

[TomL]

@TomL, AND @Peterlag,
The Lord Jesus existed ... Always.... forever. he never preexisted. the Christ ... that flesh bone and blood, (the Son of God), that came out of Mary did not always exist.

101G.

The Word was in the beginning. He pre-existed the incarnation when he took on flesh,

 

[101G]

You are confused. It is two persons sent by one

That is still three



Let's see Jesus is praying to the Father - that would be two

He will send another comforter - that would be three persons

The three persons would be one being

The passage reflects a trinitarian understanding

The Holy Spirit is another, not the same comforter.

This other comforter is of the same nature and essence as the devine Christ and establishes the nature of Christ in us and that is why it can be said I will come to you while another comforter is spoken of

Your position cannot account for that and thus is an error

This

LOL, LOL, LOL, Oh my, my, my, my. 101G didn't ask if he was confused or not 101G asked a simple question. is the "Spirit" in Isaiah 48:12 three persons? a simple yes or no will do.

and as for who sent his angel in Revelation .... it was the Lord Jesus, WHO IS GOD. ..... (smile).... only one person.

now to reveal something to you. God is not three persons, but one person "SHARED" in three dispensations or three administrations just as
1 Corinthians 12:1-6 clearly states. "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant." 1 Corinthians 12:2 "Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led." 1 Corinthians 12:3 "Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." 1 Corinthians 12:4 "Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit." 1 Corinthians 12:5 "And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord." 1 Corinthians 12:6 "And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all."

and note: the term differences is just another word for diversities.

the "SAME" Spirit is the "SAME" Lord, who is the "SAME" God .... that is the Lord Jesus. oh how easy

last time, is the Spirit in Isaiah 48:12 three person or not... your answer please.

101G.

 

[101G]

The Word was in the beginning. He pre-existed the incarnation when he took on flesh,

My God, Listen TomL. scripture, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
God: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

PLURAL ..... "of" ....... H433? so who is H433,
H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410

the plurality of ONE PERSON as God .... which is the ECHAD of himself. just as Phil 2:6 clearly states, "EQUAL WITH" and "WITH" is the same ONE PERSON as 101G clearly stated in post #291 above... please read it.

again, is the Spirit in Isaiah 48:12 three persons? yes or no.

101G