All Claims of The Son's Deity

[mikesw]

“but he who came down from heaven.” Something was said to have come from God or come from heaven if God was its source. For example, James 1:17 says that every good gift is “from above” and “comes down” from God. What James means is clear. God is the Author and source of the good things in our lives. God works behind the scenes to provide what we need. The verse does not mean that the good things in our lives come directly down from heaven. The phrase “he who came down from heaven” in John 3:13 is to be understood in the same way we understand James’ words—that God is the source of Jesus Christ, which He was. Christ was God’s plan, and then God directly fathered Jesus.

if you put everything in a blender, nothing is distinct and then there is no message or teaching. Chalk another mistake up to a hyper-literalist single-verse unitarian

 

[synergy]

The Bible is about the coming of Jesus Christ. Not about Abraham. So yes Jesus was before Abraham in the Scriptures. It does not mean he was alive before Abraham.

So you're saying that Jesus was before Abraham but not alive? Do you often see people who are present but not alive?

 

[Peterlag]

So you're saying that Jesus was before Abraham but not alive? Do you often see people who are present but not alive?

I can see the coming of the Lord all throughout the Scriptures and he has not come yet. It's not rocket science.

 

[Capbook]

Hi Civic. @TomL and @Complete

Jews rejected Jesus as their Messiah. That was the claim of Jesus during his life, that was the claim that Peter accepted in his confession (and the confession that Jesus applauded as revealed from God). That was the claim that was questioned at the Sanhedrin, the claim that led to the inscription over his cross, the claim that both the repented thief and the centurion at the cross accepted.

Jews accusing Jesus of proclaiming Himself God were enemies of Jesus, making a false accusation of blasphemy. A false accusation that Jesus rejected on the spot.

Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”​

“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”​

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? (John 10:31-36)​

That accusation was so unsustainable, so weak, that the Sanhedrin couldn't use it to sentence Jesus to death.
As you remember, Jesus is not asked to declare if He is God. He is asked to declare if He is the Anointed Son of God, the Messiah. Jesus responds He is, and places himself on the right of the throne of God, not on the throne of God.

In contrast, Jesus claimed to worship the very same God all Jews knew as God. The Unipersonal, Eternal, Only and True God of Israel.

The Father had said to the Son, Your throne God, is forever and ever, and two word "God" can be read in the next verse. The first referred to Jesus and the other referred to the Father in support to the previous verse. (Heb 1:8-9)
And so with John 1:18, NASB rendered Jesus as the only-begotten God, supported by the oldest manuscripts that contain almost the book of John, the papyrus 66, and papyrus 75. Other readings were from later manuscripts.

John 1:18
18 No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASB

 

[TomL]

The Bible is about the coming of Jesus Christ. Not about Abraham. So yes Jesus was before Abraham in the Scriptures. It does not mean he was alive before Abraham.

Sorry context clearly shows otherwise.

John 8:56–59 (NASB95) — 56 “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.


Your theology is not based upon an exegetical handling of scripture.

 

[TomL]

No I'm not ignoring the point. You simply do not understand what I wrote which is written well and explains how the word "God" and "god" are used in Scripture and yes there is over 30 sections of Scripture listed as examples on how the words are used. You simply do what you always do which is not read what is written or not understand what is written or do not accept what is written and then accuse me of not responding. The deception or ignorance on your part is off the charts.

Sorry the issue was the use of theos with or without an article

It was not about how Elohim was used

Will you admit the examples of Theos I gave you without the article refer to what you would term the true God?

 

[dwight92070]

Jesus commanded the Legion of demons to come out of the man who lived in the tombs, and permitted them to enter a herd of pigs. Before that he had cried out in a loud voice, as he fell before Jesus, saying, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, do not torment me."

After he was delivered the man was sitting down at the feet of Jesus, clothed and in his right mind. All the people of the city and the surrounding area asked Jesus to leave, because they were gripped with great fear. As He was getting into a boat to leave, the delivered man begged Jesus that he might go with Him. But Jesus sent him back, to return to his house, to describe "what great things GOD had done for him and how He had mercy on him."

So the man obeyed Jesus. He went away, proclaiming throughout the whole city what great things JESUS had done for him. Luke 8:26-39.

Did you catch that? Jesus tells him to describe what great things GOD had done for him, but instead he describes what great things JESUS had done for him.

Jesus proclaims that His delivering this man was God delivering this man. The man acknowledges that in proclaiming what great things JESUS had done for him - he was obeying Jesus and proclaiming what GOD had done for him.

In other words, JESUS and GOD are interchangeable because they are ONE.

 

[synergy]

Sorry context clearly shows otherwise.

John 8:56–59 (NASB95) — 56 “Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” 57 So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.


Your theology is not based upon an exegetical handling of scripture.

Correct. @Peterlag does not follow the narrative of the Bible but builds his own imaginary narrative. He goes off on a tanget building his own imaginary story of what actually transpired between the Pharisees and Jesus. That's called plot assassination and @Peterlag is proud of it.

 

[Capbook]

Jesus commanded the Legion of demons to come out of the man who lived in the tombs, and permitted them to enter a herd of pigs. Before that he had cried out in a loud voice, as he fell before Jesus, saying, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg you, do not torment me."

After he was delivered the man was sitting down at the feet of Jesus, clothed and in his right mind. All the people of the city and the surrounding area asked Jesus to leave, because they were gripped with great fear. As He was getting into a boat to leave, the delivered man begged Jesus that he might go with Him. But Jesus sent him back, to return to his house, to describe "what great things GOD had done for him and how He had mercy on him."

So the man obeyed Jesus. He went away, proclaiming throughout the whole city what great things JESUS had done for him. Luke 8:26-39.

Did you catch that? Jesus tells him to describe what great things GOD had done for him, but instead he describes what great things JESUS had done for him.

Jesus proclaims that His delivering this man was God delivering this man. The man acknowledges that in proclaiming what great things JESUS had done for him - he was obeying Jesus and proclaiming what GOD had done for him.

In other words, JESUS and GOD are interchangeable because they are ONE.

Do you mean that Jesus and the Father are one person?

 

[dwight92070]

Jesus does the same thing when He healed the ten lepers. Luke 17:11-19

Luke tells us that when the Samaritan leper realized that he had been cleansed that he "turned back, glorifying GOD with a loud voice, and he fell on his face at HIS feet, giving thanks to HIM."

Right off the bat, Luke is equating JESUS WITH GOD. But read on. JESUS HIMSELF DOES THE SAME THING.

Jesus says: "Was no one found who returned to give glory to GOD, except this foreigner?"

Jesus is saying that when the man fell on his face at HIS FEET, and was giving thanks to HIM, he was glorifying and giving thanks to GOD.

JESUS is saying that HE IS GOD!

 

[dwight92070]

Do you mean that Jesus and the Father are one person?

How did the Jews understand Jesus when He said "I and the Father are One."?

They picked up stones to stone Him. They said, " ... You, being a man, make yourself out to be God."

 

[Complete]

'For the grace of God that bringeth salvation
hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,
we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing
of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;... '
(Titus 2:11-13)

* Our great Saviour God! -

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[TomL]

Correct. @Peterlag does not follow the narrative of the Bible but builds his own imaginary narrative. He goes off on a tanget building his own imaginary story of what actually transpired between the Pharisees and Jesus. That's called plot assassination and @Peterlag is proud of it.

Exactly

 

[synergy]

Do you mean that Jesus and the Father are one person?

How did the Jews understand Jesus when He said "I and the Father are One."?

They picked up stones to stone Him.

I don't think that @dwight92070 is a modalist but he can confirm that.

 

[TomL]

'For the grace of God that bringeth salvation
hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,
we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope,
and the glorious appearing
of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;... '
(Titus 2:11-13)

* My Lord and my God!

Yep

Christ is both our great God and Savior

Titus 2:13 (NASB95) — 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,

 

[Complete]

Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters,
and to please them well in all things; not answering again;
Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity;
that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts,
we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing
of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
(Titus 2:9-13)

* It is written! How can it be denied?

Our Saviour God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris