Peterlag
Active Member
The New Testament Jews did not write the New Testament. The Old Testament Jews wrote the Old Testament and in all of their writings they never mentioned a trinity.
A request
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Peterlag
Active Member
What I see from you is a rhetorical tactic being deployed here known as the Gish Gallop. It's a debate strategy where one side fires off a massive amount of arguments, points, and claims all in one post with the clear intent to overwhelm and exhaust anyone trying to respond. The purpose of the Gish Gallop is to flood the conversation with so many points that nobody can reasonably address them all, creating the false impression that their arguments are insurmountable or that the other side has no answers.So you are admitting there is a teaching in the New?
And before you say it is not there either....,
READ (Now posted in General Topics so I can access at the ready.
Where in the Bible Does it Say Jesus is God: 11 Important Key Verses
Where in the Bible Does it Say Jesus is God The Bible explicitly states that Jesus is God in several passages. John 1:1 declares, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Colossians 2:9 affirms, "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily."...
thebiblecolleges.com
The Bible explicitly states that Jesus is God in several passages. John 1:1 declares, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Colossians 2:9 affirms, “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.”
In John 10:30, Jesus says, “I and My Father are one,” indicating His divine nature. Additionally, Titus 2:13 refers to Jesus as “our great God and Savior,” and Hebrews 1:8 quotes God addressing the Son, saying, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.”
The following are 11 key verses that will give you more insights into scriptures that back up the truth that the Lord Jesus Christ is one with God:
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
This verse introduces the concept of the “Word” (logos), identifying it as preexisting with God from the beginning and also being divine in nature. It establishes the eternal existence and divine identity of Jesus Christ as the Word.
Studying this verse is essential for understanding the foundational belief in Jesus’s preexistence and divinity. It lays the groundwork for comprehending Jesus’s role in creation and His unique relationship with God the Father.
Through this verse, we grasp the profound theological truth that Jesus is not only a human being but also the eternal Word of God incarnate.
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.”
This verse declares that the Word, who was with God and was God from the beginning, became flesh and dwelt among humanity. It affirms the miraculous reality of the Incarnation, wherein the eternal Word took on human form and lived among us.
Studying this verse deepens our understanding of the mystery of the Incarnation—the central event of Christianity. It reveals God’s profound love and desire to reconcile humanity to Himself by sending His Son in human form.
Through Jesus Christ, God bridged the gap between divinity and humanity, offering salvation and redemption to all who believe.
“I and My Father are one.”
In this verse, Jesus declares, “I and the Father are one,” affirming His divine unity with God the Father. He claims equality with God, expressing the inseparable union between Himself and the Father.
Studying this verse illuminates the deity of Jesus Christ and His unique relationship with God the Father. It highlights Jesus’s authority and divine nature, reinforcing the Christian belief in the Trinity—the doctrine of God’s triune nature as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Understanding this verse deepens our appreciation for Jesus’s identity as the Son of God and strengthens our faith in His power and sovereignty.
“For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;”
This verse emphasizes that in Jesus Christ, the fullness of the Godhead resides in bodily form. It asserts the complete and perfect union of divinity and humanity in Jesus, affirming His identity as fully God and fully human.
Studying Colossians 2:9 is crucial for grasping the profound truth of the Incarnation—that in Jesus Christ, God took on human flesh.
It reaffirms the core Christian doctrine of the hypostatic union, which teaches that Jesus possesses both divine and human natures united in one person.
Understanding this verse deepens our appreciation for the mystery of God’s incarnation and underscores the significance of Jesus’s redemptive work on behalf of humanity.
“Who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,”
This verse describes Jesus Christ as existing in the very nature of God, yet willingly choosing humility and obedience by not exploiting His equality with God for selfish gain. It underscores Jesus’s divine nature and His voluntary self-emptying to take on human form.
Studying Philippians 2:6 illuminates the character of Jesus Christ as both divine and humble. It challenges us to emulate His example of selflessness and obedience, even in the face of great privilege and authority.
This verse also reinforces the biblical teaching on the nature of Christ, affirming His preexistence, deity, and sacrificial love for humanity.
Understanding Philippians 2:6 deepens our reverence for Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and inspires us to follow His example of humility and service in our lives.
“But to the Son He says: ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.'”
This verse quotes from Psalm 45:6, addressing the Son as “O God,” affirming His divine nature and eternal reign. It declares the Son’s sovereignty and everlasting authority, emphasizing His divine status and preeminence.
Studying Hebrews 1:8 reinforces the biblical teaching on the deity of Jesus Christ. It provides clear evidence from the Old Testament that the Son is addressed as God, affirming His equality with the Father. Understanding this verse deepens our understanding of Jesus’s divine identity and reinforces our confidence in His eternal reign as Lord and King.
“looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,”
In this verse, believers are encouraged to eagerly await the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. It identifies Jesus Christ as both “our great God” and “Savior,” affirming His divine nature and role in redemption.
Studying Titus 2:13 underscores the deity of Jesus Christ and His central role in the Christian faith. It affirms that Jesus is not only our Savior but also our great God, emphasizing His divine authority and majesty.
This verse instills hope and anticipation in believers as we await the glorious return of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Understanding Titus 2:13 deepens our devotion to Jesus and reinforces our confidence in His promise to return and establish His eternal kingdom.
“For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
Isaiah 9:6 prophesies about the birth of a child who will hold the government upon his shoulders. The verse describes the child with several divine titles: Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, and Prince of Peace. This prophecy points to the Messiah, Jesus Christ, and highlights His divine nature and role as the Savior of humanity.
Studying Isaiah 9:6 reveals the Messianic prophecy fulfilled in Jesus Christ. It emphasizes Jesus’s deity and His attributes as the source of wisdom, strength, eternal life, and peace.
Understanding this verse deepens our appreciation for the significance of Jesus’s birth and His mission to reconcile humanity to God. It strengthens our faith in Jesus as the promised Messiah and encourages us to rely on Him as our Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, and Prince of Peace.
“Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,” which is translated, “God with us.”
Matthew 1:23 quotes the prophecy from Isaiah 7:14, affirming that the virgin will conceive and bear a son, who will be called Immanuel, meaning “God with us.” This verse highlights the miraculous nature of Jesus’s birth and emphasizes His divine identity as God incarnate.
Studying Matthew 1:23 underscores the miraculous conception of Jesus Christ and His unique role as God dwelling among humanity.
It affirms Jesus’s deity and His intimate presence with His people. Understanding this verse deepens our understanding of the Incarnation—the central mystery of the Christian faith—and reinforces our confidence in Jesus as the promised Messiah who brings salvation and reconciliation.
It also reminds us of the profound truth that God is not distant or unreachable but intimately present with us through Jesus Christ, our Immanuel.
“of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.”
Romans 9:5 declares that Christ is God over all, forever praised. This concise statement affirms the deity of Jesus Christ, emphasizing His eternal nature, authority, and sovereignty over all creation.
Studying Romans 9:5 reinforces the biblical teaching on the divinity of Jesus Christ. It provides a clear declaration of Jesus’s deity, underscoring His equality with God the Father and the Holy Spirit.
Understanding this verse deepens our faith in Jesus as the divine Son of God and reinforces our worship and praise of Him as the one true God. It also strengthens our confidence in His power to save and reign over all creation for eternity.
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Revelation 1:8 contains a proclamation from the Lord God, identifying Himself as the Alpha and the Omega, the one who is, who was, and who is to come—the Almighty.
This verse emphasizes God’s eternal existence, omnipotence, and sovereign authority over all time and space.
Studying Revelation 1:8 reveals the majestic nature of God as the eternal and omnipotent Creator. It underscores His sovereignty over all things, past, present, and future.
Understanding this verse deepens our reverence for God and strengthens our trust in His unfailing power and faithfulness. It reminds us that God is the ultimate source of hope and security, deserving of our worship and adoration.
The Bible unequivocally proclaims the divinity of Jesus Christ through various passages that highlight His eternal existence, divine attributes, and unique relationship with God the Father.
The 11 key verses discussed in this article collectively affirm that Jesus is indeed God, worthy of worship, honor, and devotion.
Understanding these scriptures enriches our faith, deepens our relationship with Jesus, and reinforces the core tenet of Christianity: that in Christ, God became flesh to dwell among us, offering redemption and eternal life.
As we reflect on these powerful biblical truths, may our faith be strengthened and our devotion to Jesus as Lord and Savior be evermore profound.
Titus
Active Member
No I was speaking to Peterlag and commenting on what he posted here,
I wasn't responding to you.
Thanks.
Wrong. I am Gods child therefore I am a jew.
You are making the mistake of ethnicity.
The new testament of Jesus Christ is not based on ethnicity.
All Christians are "jews".
Romans 2:28-29,
- for he is not a jew which is one outwardly(ethnicity) neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh
- but he is a jew which is one inwardly and circumcision is of the heart, in the Spirit and not in the letter whose praise is not of men but of God
Merely grafted in as if ethic Jews are a superior race over gentiles.
God sees no difference,
Galatians 3:28
- there is neither jew nor gentile there is neither bond nor free there is neither male nor female for ye are all one in Christ Jesus
Titus
Active Member
Paul wasn't a jew? He didn't write the new testament?
The old testament Jews wrote what the Holy Spirit told then to write.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Is the New Testament Jewish? - Jews for Jesus
A look at the Jewishness of the authors, focus, language, and content of the New Testament.
jewsforjesus.org
Is the New Testament Jewish? - Jews for Jesus
A look at the Jewishness of the authors, focus, language, and content of the New Testament.
jewsforjesus.org
From Jews for Jesus
Is the New Testament Jewish?
The the content, authors, language, and focus all point in one direction.by Catherine Damato | April 23 2018
When Abby had some doubts about her Jewish beliefs, she consulted a rabbi. He recommended that she read books by Jewish authors. “Be an informed Jew,” he exhorted.
Abby was delighted to find a number of such books in the religion section of her local library. Since most of the titles were unfamiliar, she selected the first ten books from a row on an eye-level shelf. Settling into a comfortable chair in a quiet corner, she laid the books out on a table in front of her. She quickly determined that one of the books must have been misshelved, for it bore the title “New Testament.”
The placing of a copy of the New Testament on a shelf full of books on Jewish faith was most likely the ironic oversight of a careless library worker. Yet, in its authorship, content and focus, there is hardly a book more Jewish.
A Book Written by Jewish People
Scholars agree that the writers of the New Testament were Jewish (with the possible exception of Luke).1The New Testament writers were not rebellious radicals bent on destroying Judaism. They worshiped regularly in the Temple.2 They were well versed in the Jewish Scriptures as demonstrated by their numerous references to the prophecies and practices of the Hebrew Scriptures.
The most prolific New Testament writer, Paul, wrote almost half of the 27 New Testament books. His Jewish background is indisputable. He was a son of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin,3 and a Pharisee.4 The Jewish scholar, Professor Samuel Sandmel of Hebrew Union College, observes that Paul “was at home in the Bible and in the practice of expounding it; he shared the group-feeling of Jews, and he was, from his own standpoint, unreservedly loyal to Judaism.”5
Paul boasted that prior to becoming a believer in Yeshua (Jesus), he was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of his own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of his fathers. His familiarity with Jewish tradition, thought and theology remained an integral part of his preaching. He drew heavily from the Hebrew Bible, and the audiences to whom he preached were well acquainted with the Hebrew Scriptures.
Paul considered himself part of a new Jewish sect.
Jewish scholar Alan F. Segal admits, “However much I may disagree with Paul, my reading accedes to the authenticity of Paul’s conversion experience. Paul considered himself part of a new Jewish sect.”6Paul’s Jewishness is evident in the focus of his writing as well. This is true of all the New Testament writers. For if the book dealt only with Gentile issues, it could hardly be regarded as Jewish.
A Book Written for Jewish People
The pages of the New Testament clearly follow the framework of Judaism. The first four books, the gospels, addressed a Jewish audience. They echoed the pattern of historical narratives interspersed with instruction found in the Torah.The Jewish festivals that are celebrated throughout the pages of the New Testament were not feasts of interest to the Gentiles but were part of the daily life of the Jewish people.
The four gospel accounts contain numerous references to the Hebrew Scriptures, references that deal with the messianic theme. This is clearly seen in the narration of the birth of Yeshua. His conception was prophesied in Isaiah 7:14 and referred to in Matthew: “The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel, which means ‘God with us’ ” (1:23).
His birth in Bethlehem was foretold by the prophet Micah in chapter 5, verse 2, “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times,” and quoted in Matthew 2:6.
Matthew also relies heavily on Hebrew Scriptures. In the second chapter of his narrative, he relates the flight into Egypt of Joseph and Mary (Miriam) and the slaughter of the innocents by Herod. Harking back to the law of the Nazarite in Numbers 6:1–21, Matthew concludes this story with Joseph’s return to Israel to settle in Nazareth, “And he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, ‘He will be called a Nazarene’ ” (Matthew 2:23).
Peterlag
Active Member
The New Testament was written by Christians. Apostles for the Lord Jesus Christ. If you don't understand even a little bit then I will not be able to respond to you. It will not be because you cornered me or I have no answers. It's because I do require someone understands the basics before conversing with me.
Is the New Testament Jewish? - Jews for Jesus
A look at the Jewishness of the authors, focus, language, and content of the New Testament.jewsforjesus.orgFrom Jews for Jesus
Is the New Testament Jewish?
The the content, authors, language, and focus all point in one direction.
by Catherine Damato | April 23 2018
When Abby had some doubts about her Jewish beliefs, she consulted a rabbi. He recommended that she read books by Jewish authors. “Be an informed Jew,” he exhorted.
Abby was delighted to find a number of such books in the religion section of her local library. Since most of the titles were unfamiliar, she selected the first ten books from a row on an eye-level shelf. Settling into a comfortable chair in a quiet corner, she laid the books out on a table in front of her. She quickly determined that one of the books must have been misshelved, for it bore the title “New Testament.”
The placing of a copy of the New Testament on a shelf full of books on Jewish faith was most likely the ironic oversight of a careless library worker. Yet, in its authorship, content and focus, there is hardly a book more Jewish.
A Book Written by Jewish People
Scholars agree that the writers of the New Testament were Jewish (with the possible exception of Luke).1
The New Testament writers were not rebellious radicals bent on destroying Judaism. They worshiped regularly in the Temple.2 They were well versed in the Jewish Scriptures as demonstrated by their numerous references to the prophecies and practices of the Hebrew Scriptures.
The most prolific New Testament writer, Paul, wrote almost half of the 27 New Testament books. His Jewish background is indisputable. He was a son of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin,3 and a Pharisee.4 The Jewish scholar, Professor Samuel Sandmel of Hebrew Union College, observes that Paul “was at home in the Bible and in the practice of expounding it; he shared the group-feeling of Jews, and he was, from his own standpoint, unreservedly loyal to Judaism.”5
Paul boasted that prior to becoming a believer in Yeshua (Jesus), he was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of his own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of his fathers. His familiarity with Jewish tradition, thought and theology remained an integral part of his preaching. He drew heavily from the Hebrew Bible, and the audiences to whom he preached were well acquainted with the Hebrew Scriptures.
Paul considered himself part of a new Jewish sect.
Jewish scholar Alan F. Segal admits, “However much I may disagree with Paul, my reading accedes to the authenticity of Paul’s conversion experience. Paul considered himself part of a new Jewish sect.”6
Paul’s Jewishness is evident in the focus of his writing as well. This is true of all the New Testament writers. For if the book dealt only with Gentile issues, it could hardly be regarded as Jewish.
A Book Written for Jewish People
The pages of the New Testament clearly follow the framework of Judaism. The first four books, the gospels, addressed a Jewish audience. They echoed the pattern of historical narratives interspersed with instruction found in the Torah.
The Jewish festivals that are celebrated throughout the pages of the New Testament were not feasts of interest to the Gentiles but were part of the daily life of the Jewish people.
The four gospel accounts contain numerous references to the Hebrew Scriptures, references that deal with the messianic theme. This is clearly seen in the narration of the birth of Yeshua. His conception was prophesied in Isaiah 7:14 and referred to in Matthew: “The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel, which means ‘God with us’ ” (1:23).
His birth in Bethlehem was foretold by the prophet Micah in chapter 5, verse 2, “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times,” and quoted in Matthew 2:6.
Matthew also relies heavily on Hebrew Scriptures. In the second chapter of his narrative, he relates the flight into Egypt of Joseph and Mary (Miriam) and the slaughter of the innocents by Herod. Harking back to the law of the Nazarite in Numbers 6:1–21, Matthew concludes this story with Joseph’s return to Israel to settle in Nazareth, “And he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets, ‘He will be called a Nazarene’ ” (Matthew 2:23).
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I am not part of the debate. It has not started as far as I know.
I only posted where it is called in the New Testament. NOT FOR DISCUSSION.
I am damned if I do and I am damned if I dont for all I hear from you folks is IT IS NOT IN THE
BIBLE. IT IS NOT IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.
So I found my list and put it where I can reference anytime I want to right here on BAM and so can other people... And there are other scriptures, it can be added to by anyone who choses.
If you cannot handle reading 11... I think it is 11 verses... on Jesus being called God... its not as if you were asked to reply to each point...
You have all the possible ways to thwart the evidence. Just tell your counterparts to not bring points up that can be refuted.
I wont reply to any of you now until the debate is over.
@Peterlag
1. pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s facts
2. pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s logic
That’s it. Simple! The dishonest list is much longer.
Much of the NT was written by born again Jews. What was Paul? A Jew. Peter? A Jew. John? A Jew. You are being very dishonest already!
"The New Testament was written by Christians"...Who happen to be Jews by nature.
I can see already you are using some very dishonest debate tactics. In all debates there are only two honest intellectually-honest debate tactics:
1. pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s facts
2. pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s logic
That’s it. Simple! The dishonest list is much longer.
Much of the NT was written by born again Jews. What was Paul? A Jew. Peter? A Jew. John? A Jew. You are being very dishonest already!
Galatians 2:15
“We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,”"The New Testament was written by Christians"...Who happen to be Jews by nature.
civic
Active Member
Rev 22:13, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”
We can see here that Whoever is the Alpha/Omega also claims to be the first/last AND the beginning/end. It’s the same Person.
If we look back in Rev 1:17-18 we see the following:
“…Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
So, the One Who is first/last (and then is also Alpha/Omega and beginning/end) is the same Person who was dead and is alive forever more. It doesn’t take a scholar to figure out Who is the One speaking here. It does take a lot of mental gymnastics to explain away something so obvious.
The term "first/last" is used 4 times in Rev. Twice it is used along with "Alpha/Omega" with the Person claiming to be "first/last" AND the "Alpha/Omega."
"Alpha/Omega" is used 4 times in Rev. Twice with "first/last" and twice with "beginning/end."
"Beginning/end" occurs 3 times: twice with "Alpha/Omega" and once with "Alpha/Omega" AND "first/last."
In all of these texts, the speaker always refers to Himself with both or all of the titles. To say, "Well, this time it's Jehovah who is the first/last, this next time it's Jesus, then later it's Jehovah again..." is the mental gymnastics to which I referred.
Is God the first/last or is Jesus the first/last? Is God the Alpha/Omega or is Jesus the Alpha/Omega? Is God the beginning/end or is Jesus the beginning/end. An obvious way to reconcile the verses is to understand that Jesus is God.
According to unitarians, it seems God claimed to be the first/last in one sense while Jesus claimed to be first/last in another sense. You seem to gloss over the blatant connection of first/last with beginning/end and Alpha/Omega. In each verse, the Speaker who claims one title also claims one or both of the others. It's all the same person.
I usually wait patiently for unitarians to reply but this point has been nagging at me so I have to comment preemptively. I really am baffled by their suggestion from other discussion in the past that “first/last” has some meaning here other than the obvious one (a title synonymous with Alpha/Omega). You even say that Alpha/Omega is never used of the Son? Incredible!! We both have said that context is king so I would like to remind other readers of the context of Rev 1:17-18 (beginning in v.10, Young’s Literal):
I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that [are] in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'
And I did turn to see the voice that did speak with me, and having turned, I saw seven golden lamp-stands, and in the midst of the seven lamp-stands, [one] like to a son of man, clothed to the foot, and girt round at the breast with a golden girdle, and his head and hairs white, as if white wool -- as snow, and his eyes as a flame of fire; and his feet like to fine brass, as in a furnace having been fired, and his voice as a sound of many waters, and having in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword is proceeding, and his countenance [is] as the sun shining in its might.
And when I saw him, I did fall at his feet as dead, and he placed his right hand upon me, saying to me, `Be not afraid; I am the First and the Last, and he who is living, and I did become dead, and, lo, I am living to the ages of the ages. Amen! and I have the keys of the hades and of the death.
Do you realize this is one scene? The Speaker identifies Himself in v. 11 as “the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.” John turns to see who is speaking and sees “one like to a son of man” (other translations have “the Son of man”). Perhaps John is saying, "I saw someone who looked like Jesus." Then finally, in v. 17-18, the Speaker indeed identifies Himself as the One who is living and became dead and is now alive again forever.
Unitarians: I guess you identify the Alpha and Omega in v. 8 as Jehovah and v. 11 as Jesus? I guess you don’t see the term “the First and the Last” as a title equivalent to “the Alpha and Omega”? If so, you are definitely seeing something in the text that an ordinary reading doesn’t see beacuse of your bias.
It’s a title ascribed to the Almighty. I didn’t think it needed a more precise definition to be understood. What about, “the one who is and who was and who to come”? Does that need to be defined? I guess we could talk about a precise definition but I don’t think that will change my point. The Alpha/Omega is self-described as “the Almighty (1:8) AND the First/Last (22:13). The First/Last is self-described as the one who was dead and is alive forever more (1:18). Again, there are either 2 people who are the first and last OR Jesus is the Almighty.
Conclusion: Scripture declares YHWH is the First and the Last and besides Me there is no God/YHWH. Christ is YHWH.
hope this helps !!!
Peterlag
Active Member
The concept of the New Covenant was written by Christian Apostles functioning for the Lord Jesus Christ. They did not write to Israel or concerning the Legal administration suited only to Israel under the Law that is sometimes called the Mosaic Law that terminated when Jesus Christ died.
They wrote the concept that deals with the present Christian administration of Grace that is for the Church of God. The time period I now belong to because it's the Grace administration, without any distinction made between the Jew and the Gentile, which will end with the appearing of Jesus Christ.
So when I spoke about the Jews never saw a trinity, I was referring to those who lived and wrote under the Legal administration and not those who were on the earth when the Apostles wrote the New Testament.
A have always believed, and have told you many times, that the Jesus "of the Bible" was the Christ, the Holy One of Israel, that was with His Father, in Spirit, before the World was and that HIS Father sent HIM to be my Savior and Redeemer. I am not a "Unitarian". I just don't believe in your triune god, although this god has been popular in many cultures over the centuries in one image or another.
Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, "hath sent me". 17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:
The scripture you posted exposes the satanic doctrines you have adopted, not the belief my posts represent. Doctrines you have been called out on, by a few of the same religious men who have now joined you in your religion. That is fascinating.
Rev. 22: 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give "every man" according as "his work" shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
This verse, and many others, expose the satanic doctrine many have adopted, that you promote, that men are "Chosen" to spend eternity in torture, or in Paradise with God, based on some Holy Lottery drawing that took place before the foundation of the world, and is not based on any choice that this same Christ said HE gave us. Of course this is wickedness, and the Scriptures teach no such thing, when they are all considered. Nevertheless, it is your adopted religion.
You make many other wicked judgments against this Christ, that became a man. You are promoting Falsehoods about Him, when HE was up where HE was before. I have just exposed a few, this world's religions promote many more. Now you want to promote His deity as a God man? If you actually knew Him, you wouldn't promote such wicked judgments against Him.
Perhaps you might consider to stop promoting falsehoods about Him, like preaching Christ sent Eve into a garden with a deadly snake without warning her, or "Giving her any assistance at all", then punishing her when the snake, as you preach, defiled her "From without". And not just punished her, but her children, and my children as well by given them a "sin nature" and making them "Totally Depraved".
If you can humble yourself to repent of these falsehoods, perhaps you might also come to see the rest, in His Mercy.
Rev 1:8= Jehovah=Jesus' God and Father.
@Peterlag
Peter, I know what you said, I'm no novice. You plainly said that the Jews wrote the OT, which they did, and said the NT were written by Christians, insinuating that the Jews did not, but you were careful not to say they did not but made your point very clear. The revelation of the Godhead being presented as three according to the work of redemption is a NT revelation, not so much in the OT~even though certain righteous people did understand it that this had to be so, that is, the Godhead though one in essence is revealed as three according to the work of redemption. I'll save my proof for later.
Peter are these your words?
@Keiw
Are you going to join the debate? If not, why not? If not, then you have no confidence in what you believe, why are you here?
@Studyman
Jesus being manifest in the flesh has little meaning, for without flesh there is no Jesus of Nazareth.
Jesus was truly manifest in the flesh; God manifest in the flesh was Jesus; know the difference.
The Son of God was not manifest in flesh; God manifest in flesh was the Son; know the difference.
Studyman, God was not a father UNTIL Jesus was conceived in the womb of Mary! You do not know, nor understand this truth. "was with His Father, in Spirit," never read that in the scriptures. ....God became the Father of Jesus Christ when he was born of a virgin named Mary!
You are not being honest, but are actually lying. Beside this debate is not about God's election of grace, nor, life after death, but concerning the deity of Jesus Christ................. ...was Jesus God manifest in the flesh, period. What do YOU say? I know already, and so do others. Why are you ashamed to let it be plainly known?
The scriptures do not say what you have written. The Scriptures said that He WAS God, period, without qualifications!
Jesus being manifest in the flesh has little meaning, for without flesh there is no Jesus of Nazareth.
Jesus was truly manifest in the flesh; God manifest in the flesh was Jesus; know the difference.
The Son of God was not manifest in flesh; God manifest in flesh was the Son; know the difference.
Studyman, God was not a father UNTIL Jesus was conceived in the womb of Mary! You do not know, nor understand this truth. "was with His Father, in Spirit," never read that in the scriptures. ....God became the Father of Jesus Christ when he was born of a virgin named Mary!
You are an enemy of Christ posing as one of his servants. here's a verse for you, @Peterlag @Keiw1 @Runningman:
John 5:23
“That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.”If it was not so serious of what you are saying, I would almost pity folks like you since you truly have very little to offer for the edification of God's saints, other than saying the same ole things over and over again. Like I have said to you before, you live in a very small part of God's word
Peterlag
Active Member
Okay let's try this another way.
Give me the Old Testament Scripture on a teaching of the Trinity.
Who saw it, mentioned it, and referred to it from any book from Joshua to Malachi.
A teaching... of the Jewish people documenting it and not just a possible clue taken from 1 word.
Wait until the debate starts~I have said that it is a NT revelation, for the most part, and then only according to the work of redemption for the very elect.
Okay, I'll give you a small glance into one that I may cover:
Psalms 110:1
“The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.”Maybe you are thinking that that verse does not say that there were three in one then when David spoke those words and I agree, yet it will prove this truth that there are three in one according to the work of redemption and in that sense only, that was to be reveal in the NT.
Finish for the night.
I am here to plant seeds of truth.
Peterlag
Active Member
So now you know what I meant when I said God gave the Scriptures to the Jewish people, and the Jewish religion and worship that comes from that revelation does not contain any reference to or teachings about a triune God. Surely the Jewish people were qualified to read and understand it, but they never saw the doctrine of the Trinity.
cc: @Titus
Peterlag
Active Member
Hey @Runningman what do I do if he uses 1 John 5:7 on me.
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