A request

[Red Baker]

@Keiw1

I am here to plant seeds of truth.

There's a problem with that, we are not a Jehovah false Witnesses, we know the difference between good seed and the seed of the serpent. We know the seed you are trying to plant. Two of them came by by house last week, probably will not come again.

Matthew 13:37​

"He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;”

 

[Runningman]

Hey @Runningman what do I do if he uses 1 John 5:7 on me.

He will undoubtedly insist that 1 John 5:7 is not a forgery, but 1 John 5:7 doesn't say that they are One God or a trinity. So it still lacks support for the trinity. However, it is a well known fact nowadays the 1 John 5:7 was a later addition to the Bible. Just go with the fact that it's not used by modern Bibles and the general consensus in the theological community is that it is not legit Scripture.

 

[Runningman]

Projecting since Unitarianism is based solely upon presuppositions

I can prove why Unitarians believe God is one person using straight Scripture. I won't even need to take verses from all over the Bible. Who God is is clearly defined and stated in the same sentence as what we believe. Unfortunately, the trinitarian cannot produce the same sort of burden of proof for the trinity. Trinitarianism is simply theology, but theology isn't necessarily Scripture.

Don't you wish the Bible atleast said "God is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is the one and only true God." You would wield that sort of statement powerfully and absolutely and in that case, none of us may be here debating it. However, you can't. Don't act like you don't crave that sort of validation from the Bible.

I have validation from the Bible. Disagree and argue all you want, but you must admit it's true; the Bible does explicitly define the one and only God as the Father repeatedly.

 

[Runningman]

I am responding only because it has not started yet. And you invoked a subject that is not for debate.

First of all. That is not necessary for a debate on the Deity of the Messiah simply because the third member in the God head
is not who is being debated about.

As to the Trinity... You need to do the study that goes back into the Old Testament to start and it takes time, and I am not your teacher nor your provider..... And while I do have a great teaching link, I am not going to provide it because you
wont read it, but you will rip it apart.

You first need to get a base of The Plurality of the Godhead, The Unity of the Godhead, and The Trinity of the Godhead.

And that starts with The Plurality of the Godhead in the Old Testament.

The Plural Noun of Elohim

The Plural Verbs used with Elohim

The Noun Elohim applied to two persons

The Name YHVH applied to two persons

The Plural Noun Adonai

The Plural Pronouns

The Plural Adjectives

The Angel of Jehovah

The Son of God

The God-Man Concept

The Holy Spirit

And these are just a start.

But I would not expect someone who never had any kind of a teaching to accept or reject to acccept
works from a source he could not tear apart.

Interesting that he trusts his own self-studies and refuses to even consider if there has been an error.

Every one opposed to this idea has been given all the verses of surety that the Trinity is real, alive and well. But
the sad thing is it is always the translation that is to fault, or what they read does not mean what it says, or
that it never was there in the first place or is it simply a lie.

So no more because it wont be read, as this likely has not either.

Tah!

Sorry, but you couldn't provide a single verse or passage that defines or describes God as a trinity for anything. For example, God is never said to be three persons who are one God in the Bible. Trinitarians came to that conclsion, but God, Jesus, and the apostles never taught anyone that is who God is. Surely you can see the difference between what you are teaching and what Jesus was teaching.

 

[Runningman]

Hey @Runningman what do I do if he uses 1 John 5:7 on me.

I'll quote a trinitarian source or the trins will call foul, but in addition to my previous reply to you, here is a source from Bible Hub with commentaries on 1John 5:7. Some of them will downplay it, minimize it, or water it down, but many admit the earliest manuscripts don't contain 1John 5:7. Means it's a forgery. Most modern Trinitarian Bibles have completely stricken it from their pages and added a footnote about why it's missing.

Source: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_john/5-7.htm

 

[FreeInChrist]

Sorry, but you couldn't provide a single verse or passage that defines or describes God as a trinity for anything. For example, God is never said to be three persons who are one God in the Bible. Trinitarians came to that conclsion, but God, Jesus, and the apostles never taught anyone that is who God is. Surely you can see the difference between what you are teaching and what Jesus was teaching.

Look Dick, See what Jane read to Spot.

The title of my thread was not on the Trinity, which will be addressed at some point, if not today, over the next few.

The title "Where in the Bible Does it Say Jesus is God"

Had nada to do with the Trinity.

After all.

If Jesus is God, and His father is God that totals to two not three.

You as well as others have always claimed it is not biblical. You never read it in the Holy Bible.

Not only have I provided verses that prove it... I can also provide verses from Jewish sources as well as Aramaic sources

 

[Red Baker]

@Runningman

Surely you can see the difference between what you are teaching and what Jesus was teaching.

We see the difference between what you, @Studyman @Keiw1 @Peterlag, teach, and what the word of God gives testimony to the truth.

John 3:13​

“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

 

[Red Baker]

@Runningman

I'll quote a trinitarian source or the trins will call foul, but in addition to my previous reply to you, here is a source from Bible Hub with commentaries on 1John 5:7. Some of them will downplay it, minimize it, or water it down, but many admit the earliest manuscripts don't contain 1John 5:7. Means it's a forgery. Most modern Trinitarian Bibles have completely stricken it from their pages and added a footnote about why it's missing.

Source: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/1_john/5-7.htm

Bring it on, and let's see what we can do with whatever you guys try to do with 1st John 5:7.

The only forgery I see here, are four people who deny that Jesus Christ was God manifest in human flesh. That's the spirit of antichrist at work.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I am here to plant seeds of truth.

As we all are. Some have more truth then others. Why are you not in the debate? You hold your own basically in every thread so why not there/

 

[Red Baker]

@FreeInChrist

Why are you not in the debate? You hold your own basically in every thread so why not there/

None of them wants to debate, only Peter has step up to do so, give him some credit, at least he is proven he does truly believes in what he is saying. We shall see just how long he stays. Maybe to the end.

 

[Runningman]

Not only have I provided verses that prove it... I can also provide verses from Jewish sources as well as Aramaic sources

I can provide verses that say Jesus is not God.

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman

We see the difference between what you, @Studyman @Keiw1 @Peterlag, teach, and what the word of God gives testimony to the truth.

John 3:13​

“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

Unitarians believe that, too, but John 3:13 doesn't say Jeus is God or a trinity does it. See my point?

 

[Runningman]

@Runningman

Bring it on, and let's see what we can do with whatever you guys try to do with 1st John 5:7.

The only forgery I see here, are four people who deny that Jesus Christ was God manifest in human flesh. That's the spirit of antichrist at work.

So the fact that trinitarians who are more well-read, learned, and studied than you are are saying that 1 John 5:7 is fake and that it doesn't appear in any modern Bible seems irrelevant to you?

 

[Runningman]

@FreeInChrist

None of them wants to debate, only Peter has step up to do so, give him some credit, at least he is proven he does truly believes in what he is saying. We shall see just how long he stays. Maybe to the end.

I want to debate, but this one is 1 v 1 right now.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I can provide verses that say Jesus is not God.

What are you waiting for?

 

[Runningman]

What are you waiting for?

Nothing. I have been doing it every day for years already.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@FreeInChrist

None of them wants to debate, only Peter has step up to do so, give him some credit, at least he is proven he does truly believes in what he is saying. We shall see just how long he stays. Maybe to the end.

@Red Baker

@Administrator has said that both side would need two for a fair debate.....

I believe you suggested a 2nd yesterday that you would welcome to your side....
Give them a formal request and see if they are willing.

Then you can get @Runningman

 

[FreeInChrist]

Nothing. I have been doing it every day for years already.

So have I my friend but I finally took the bull by the horns and posted a dedicated thread to the scriptural proofs that all can add their proofs to and guess what... easy peasy when I want a reference I have it at the ready.

Do the same.... not in my thread or Ill have it moved but start one of your own... post scripture number and statement.

You are waiting for the debate so you have time

 

[Administrator]

@Red Baker

@Administrator has said that both side would need two for a fair debate.....

I believe you suggested a 2nd yesterday that you would welcome to your side....
Give them a formal request and see if they are willing.

Then you can get @Runningman

We can give it a try

 

[Studyman]

@Runningman

We see the difference between what you, @Studyman @Keiw1 @Peterlag, teach, and what the word of God gives testimony to the truth.

John 3:13​

“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

Red Baker, for like to 100th time, I understand that the Holy One of Israel, "The Rock", "The Light of this world", who His Father Sent to Create all that is created, to show men in the way that they should go, is the "Word of God" that Eve rejected, and the world rejected, but Noah and Abraham didn't. This "Word of God volunteered Himself to become a mortal human, Flesh and Blood man, that the English bibles call "Jesus". That this Christ, offering Himself a Living Sacrifice to God for the redemption of men who would deny themselves, pick up their corruptible flesh, that Adam and Eve and all men are created with, and follow Him, like Noah and Abraham did, in spite of all the "other voices" in the world God placed them in, to test their faith.

What I am exposing about you, is the evil and wicked Judgments about this Christ you have adopted from this world's religions, both before HE became a man, when HE created all that was created, and after, "Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared".
The Christ you promote, a Christ that sent Eve into the world with, as you and Civic preach, the deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked talking snake, with no warning, and no "Assistance at all" from her God, to battle this monster from defiling her "from without", your own words.

And then when the serpent defiled Eve, God punished her, and not only her, but her children as well, and not only her children, but mine all well. All punished by this same Christ, by creating humans with a "sin nature" that Adam and Eve wasn't created with.

This image of God you promote doesn't exist in Scriptures. This image of God you have created, isn't the God of Abraham. Didn't become a mortal flesh and blood human, wasn't raised from the dead, and isn't at the Right hand of His Father advocating between me and His God and my God to this very day. The Christ you promote is "another christ", not the Christ as defined in the Holy Scriptures HE inspired.

You want to "debate" me about the deity of Christ Jesus. But with you and the religious philosophies of this world you are promoting, it begins with the first lie you have adopted, the first deception. The Christ "of the Bible" didn't do to Eve what your adopted religion preaches. Your christ may behave in this manner, your christ may create laws impossible for a man to obey, then slaughter them when they don't obey. Your christ may place requirements of Faith on the backs of men, a faith HE Himself refused to live by.

But not the Christ of the Bible, the Scepter of God's Kingdom.

Ps. 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre "of thy kingdom" is a right sceptre.

7 Thou ( sceptre of thy kingdom) lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this Choice that the Scepter made) God, thy ( sceptre's)God, hath anointed thee ( sceptre of God's kingdom) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. (other men of Faith)