A request

[Titus]

According to what is actually written in Scriptures, Jesus offered Himself for the sins of the World. Who did HE offer Himself to?

His Father.

I believe in what the Scriptures say, that Jesus offered Himself to God, His God and my God, according to His Words, for the Sins of the world

Isaiah 7:14,
- therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign, behold the  virgin shall conceive and bear a Son and shall call His name Imnanuel(God with us)

Matthew 3:17,
- and behold a voice from heaven said, This is My beloved Son whom I am well pleased

God the Father is speaking to Jesus His Son.

Natural procreation to produce offspring.

1. Man
2. Women
3. Sexual relations between Man and Woman =
4. Children

Jesus' birth

1. God the Father
2. Mary a virgin women
3. God(Father) sends Holy Spirit to miraculously form a baby Jesus in a virgin Mary's womb=
4 God born of a women, Galatians 4:4

Who did HE offer Himself to?

Jesus offered Himself to His Father which was not Joseph.
Jesus offered Himself to His Father, Hebrews 9:14

. I believe in what the Scriptures say, that Jesus offered Himself to God,

I agree.
Jesus offered Himself to His Father which is His God.

When a Man and Woman procreate you get a 100% natural human boy

When The Father sends the Holy Spirit to miraculously form a boy in a virgin womens womb you get God in the flesh.
Impossible to get 100% physical human boy.

Human beings are not made that way.

 

[Studyman]

I just got in a little early, I cut my trip short due to a little sickness on my part, but doing better. I will address every post from you, @Peterlag (btw, Peter, your new avatar is better looking than the old one~ ) @Runningman @Keiw1 in the morning.
Studyman, your Jesus is from "your bible," a twisted perversion and corruption of God's word. You danced around @civis' question, which I already knew you would. I smell corruption as soon as I read these words from your post to civic:

I see you have recovered completely, and returned to wallow in the mire. Welcome back.

You wanted to be careful how to word your beliefs to hide your denial of Jesus' deity. Well, you only deceived your own heart more than it is already under a strong delusion, not those who are lovers of God's word.

The Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of God are one and the same!

I couldn't agree with you more concerning the Spirit of Christ, the Spiritual Rock that followed Israel, and the Spirit of God who Sent Him, being of one Mind. And no doubt the Spirit of Christ, when HE offered Himself to God and became the mortal human Jesus, remained faithful to His God who Sent Him.

Heb. 7: 7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and "was heard" in that "he feared"; 8 Though he were a Son, yet "learned he obedience" by the things which he suffered; 9 And being "made perfect", (Not born perfect, as you and Civic preach) he became the "author of eternal salvation" unto all them that obey him;

My issue with the religious philosophies of this Word's religious system that you are here to promote, is that you would further the prince of this world mission to erase Jesus' Faith, demean and discredit His Diligence and Love and dedication for His God and my God, to promote "another Jesus" who overcame sin and temptation, not by Faith, as HE requires from other humans, but by reserving unto Himself God Powers you preach HE withheld from all other humans ever born. And then when HE overcame sin and temptation by accessing these powers that anyone who possessed, would also overcome had they not been withheld from them, HE gave Himself a Name above all other Humans.

I know the Scriptures do not promote such a Messiah, but the religions of this world you promote certainly do.

I'm just not going to join you in such a wicked judgment against God and His Son, the Author and Finisher of my Faith.

Romans 8:9
“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”

Powerful scripture! So was Jesus God manifest in the flesh? If not how can you, Others as well, explain Romans 8:9? Need help? Just ask those who seek to reconcile scriptures instead of corrupting them like you do sir.

11 But if the "Spirit of him" "that raised up Jesus" from the dead dwell in you, "he that raised up Christ" from the dead "shall also quicken your mortal bodies" by his Spirit (That Raised up Jesus from the Dead) that dwelleth in you.

The Spirit of Christ was in Abraham, Noah, David, Shadrack, Paul, James, Cornelius, Peter. They are all dead and buried, waiting in Hope, for the return of the Christ. The Hope that the Same Spirit that raised the Faithful mortal man Jesus from death, will also raise them from the dead.

Rev. 22: 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

I will not join you and this world's wicked Judgments against the Lord's Christ, or His Father that Sent him, raised HIM from the dead.

I have been given the free will ability to choose God's voice over yours, and have "learned from God" the importance of such a choice.

It's not to late for you to "Yield Yourself to God" and submit yourself unto God's Righteousness.

 

[Runningman]

I see you have recovered completely, and returned to wallow in the mire. Welcome back.


I couldn't agree with you more concerning the Spirit of Christ, the Spiritual Rock that followed Israel, and the Spirit of God who Sent Him, being of one Mind. And no doubt the Spirit of Christ, when HE offered Himself to God and became the mortal human Jesus, remained faithful to His God who Sent Him.

Heb. 7: 7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and "was heard" in that "he feared"; 8 Though he were a Son, yet "learned he obedience" by the things which he suffered; 9 And being "made perfect", (Not born perfect, as you and Civic preach) he became the "author of eternal salvation" unto all them that obey him;

My issue with the religious philosophies of this Word's religious system that you are here to promote, is that you would further the prince of this world mission to erase Jesus' Faith, demean and discredit His Diligence and Love and dedication for His God and my God, to promote "another Jesus" who overcame sin and temptation, not by Faith, as HE requires from other humans, but by reserving unto Himself God Powers you preach HE withheld from all other humans ever born. And then when HE overcame sin and temptation by accessing these powers that anyone who possessed, would also overcome had they not been withheld from them, HE gave Himself a Name above all other Humans.

I know the Scriptures do not promote such a Messiah, but the religions of this world you promote certainly do.

I'm just not going to join you in such a wicked judgment against God and His Son, the Author and Finisher of my Faith.



11 But if the "Spirit of him" "that raised up Jesus" from the dead dwell in you, "he that raised up Christ" from the dead "shall also quicken your mortal bodies" by his Spirit (That Raised up Jesus from the Dead) that dwelleth in you.

The Spirit of Christ was in Abraham, Noah, David, Shadrack, Paul, James, Cornelius, Peter. They are all dead and buried, waiting in Hope, for the return of the Christ. The Hope that the Same Spirit that raised the Faithful mortal man Jesus from death, will also raise them from the dead.

Rev. 22: 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

I will not join you and this world's wicked Judgments against the Lord's Christ, or His Father that Sent him, raised HIM from the dead.

I have been given the free will ability to choose God's voice over yours, and have "learned from God" the importance of such a choice.

It's not to late for you to "Yield Yourself to God" and submit yourself unto God's Righteousness.

Well said. I think it boils down to that Trinitarians reject the religion that Jesus practiced and preached, yet the Christian faith and walk can be summarized with "Do and believe what Jesus did." Jesus' God is the Father and we are to be like Jesus as Scripture states repeatedly. If that is good enough for Jesus then it should be good enough for those who claim to follow his ways.

If that's so "wrong", as Trinitarians say, then I don't want to be what they define as "right."

 

[Selah]

John 17: 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

If Jesus was God who came to earth as 100% Almighty God, as Red and Civic preach, then what "Glory" did HE have with His Father before the world was, that HE didn't have as God on earth? Why would 100% God need another God to Glorify Him?

No “if” about it.

Consider these words of the LORD: “the glory which I had with Thee before the world was.” The word “world” in the Greek is “Kosmos.” The full Godhead, which is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, existed in glory before the world even existed. And they existed as One. There is only One God.

s e l a h

 

[Selah]

According to what is actually written in Scriptures, Jesus offered Himself for the sins of the World. Who did HE offer Himself to?

Humanity/the world=the “whoevers” in John 3:16.

John 3:16 (NKJV) “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

s e l a h

 

[Selah]

when HE offered Himself to God and became the mortal human Jesus, remained faithful to His God who Sent Him

Yikes. This ain’t right. Don’t you get it? Jesus IS God.

s e l a h

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

I see you have recovered completely, and returned to wallow in the mire.

That the nature of the work when a child of God is dealing with swine's ~ children of God end up wallowing in the same stinking mess that spiritual swine's live in, so there! You walked into that, and men like you deserve it.

I have not recover quickly, but never too weak (at least not now) to allow men deny the Lord's deity as being the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and ending, which is, and which was, and which is to come the Almighty.

For you information and for all to see, @Runningman commended your posit as being well said, so what does that tell God's children? You are "a closet" denier of Jesus deity, and you agreeing with him speaks volumes, not to me, I knew long ago and I recognized your poisonous preaching. You are of the same family of all little serpents, just a different type, but same poisonous venom. God's little ones live among so many serpents, and have at times been bitten by them but have always recover according to Jesus' words:

Mark 16:18​

“They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”

Yes we have drunk of their poisonous doctrine but every single time recover! Thank you blessed God for delivering each and every child of God as they travel through this wilderness unto our eternal home for being with us.

Luke 10:19​

“Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.”

I couldn't agree with you more concerning the Spirit of Christ, the Spiritual Rock that followed Israel, and the Spirit of God who Sent Him, being of one Mind. And no doubt the Spirit of Christ, when HE offered Himself to God and became the mortal human Jesus, remained faithful to His God who Sent Him.

So are so confused and seeking to confuse God's little ones, but the elders among them must protect them, for we have already walk were many of them will walk and we know the dangers and what to look for.

The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ are ONE AND THE SAME Spirit of Genesis 1:1. The Spirit of God DID NOT SEND the Spirit of God, what in the world ae you attempting to teach? Truly you have the slightest clue. A Spirit was not born of Mary, but a Son was conceived and born by the Holy Ghost. The Spirit "did not offered Himself to God" ~ the devil has you so confused that you are fulfilling such scriptures as:

Matthew 24:7​

“For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.”

These things are to be interpreted in a spiritual sense, the only way they would agree with so many other scriptures. You have a serious pestilence disease much like Balaam of old.

2nd Peter 2:16​

“But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb *** speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.”

Balaam had a serious pestilence disease called "madness", he lost the control of mind ~ one moment he blessed Israel then he was willing to go against what he knew he should not do for a gain! He was motivated by the riches and honor that King Balak offered him, even though God had forbidden him to curse the Israelites.

You worked hard to try to convince folks you believe Jesus was more than just a man, but will not confess who he truly is, your master has forbidden you to do so.

The Son OF God offered himself to God for the sins of his people. You might want to reconsider your confused mess, no doubt a serious pestilence, fulfilling Jesus' prophesy of the latter days, just before his coming.

My issue with the religious philosophies of this Word's religious system that you are here to promote, is that you would further the prince of this world mission to erase Jesus' Faith, demean and discredit His Diligence and Love and dedication for His God and my God, to promote "another Jesus" who overcame sin and temptation, not by Faith, as HE requires from other humans, but by reserving unto Himself God Powers you preach HE withheld from all other humans ever born. And then when HE overcame sin and temptation by accessing these powers that anyone who possessed, would also overcome had they not been withheld from them, HE gave Himself a Name above all other Humans.

I want to come back and address this in depth. later today. Actually it is folk like you that discredit Jesus' life as a surety for God's people by living a perfect life of faith and obedience and by that, secured eternal life for God's elect. Later. Would love to discuss this with you, and prove who truly is promoting the (as you continue to say) "religious philosophies of this world's religious system"~ it would be men like you sir.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I am not a Unitarian, but I will answer your questions.

Your are a Theist, and that puts you in your own catagory on here.

You walk your own singular path in your beliefs that are not even close to being substantiated in the four corners of the Holy Scriptures.

That make you a uniquely one and if there was such a term I would call you a Unitarian Theist

 

[Studyman]

Well said. I think it boils down to that Trinitarians reject the religion that Jesus practiced and preached, yet the Christian faith and walk can be summarized with "Do and believe what Jesus did." Jesus' God is the Father and we are to be like Jesus as Scripture states repeatedly. If that is good enough for Jesus then it should be good enough for those who claim to follow his ways.

If that's so "wrong", as Trinitarians say, then I don't want to be what they define as "right."

As a student of Scriptures, (Not this world's religions) I have found through study that the greatest enemy of evil, wickedness, satan, prince of this world, whatever you want to call it, is Faith, defined as "unconditional Belief in the Word of God", shown by our works.

The Jesus "of the Bible" was, in my view, the Spirit of Christ which was sent into the world in the beginning, to teach mortal men with free will, in the way that they should go. It is written that Israel ate and drank from this Spiritual Rock. In my understanding this Spirit offered Himself to His Father who sent Him from the heavens into the world, to lay down or Risk His Immortality, and become a mortal human being, for the purposes set forth by His Father. One of which was to become the Author and Finisher of perfect Faith, as it is clearly shown in Scriptures, "unconditional Belief in the Word of God". As it is written in the Gospel of this Christ, "The Just shall live by Faith"

The enemy of Faith must diminish it, destroy it. This is why, in my understanding, this world's religions, who have always been at enmity with God, cannot accept that Jesus was a man of Great Faith. That Jesus "overcame" sin and temptations in this world God placed Him in, by "unconditional Belief in the Word of God" shown by His Works, as He and His Father required of all others. That although HE was Just, HE didn't Live By Faith.

So they reject the Jesus "of the Bible" and His Father, and create instead a "triune god". Many cultures worshiped such a god. And to destroy true Faith, the "unconditional Belief in the Word of God", they promote a Christ, one of the 3 gods of their trinity, that came to earth as 100% God and 100% man. A Christ who reserved for Himself God powers HE and the other two parts of their trinity, withheld from all other humans. And it was by this power, not Faith as the Scriptures teach, but by accessing Powers they withheld from every other human, that he was able to overcome sin, temptation and death, while humans .

And when HE overcame by accessing these powers, HE and the other 2 gods in their trinity gave Himself a name above all other humans, who could have overcome had the trinity not withheld god powers from them.

You are right to question this world's religious system, like Paul did. This same System in Christ's Time also worked to destroy Faith. If men started living by Faith, what would become of their religious business? Who would buy their salvation from them? It's the same throughout the generations.

I think you are definitely on the right track ""Do and believe what Jesus did." Just as Jesus did and believed what His Father did.

And this, not because HE was GOD, but because HE was a man of Great faith.

 

[civic]

Your are a Theist, and that puts you in your own catagory on here.

You walk your own singular path in your beliefs that are not even close to being substantiated in the four corners of the Holy Scriptures.

That make you a uniquely one and if there was such a term I would call you a Unitarian Theist

and a unitarian.

 

[Runningman]

As a student of Scriptures, (Not this world's religions) I have found through study that the greatest enemy of evil, wickedness, satan, prince of this world, whatever you want to call it, is Faith, defined as "unconditional Belief in the Word of God", shown by our works.

The Jesus "of the Bible" was, in my view, the Spirit of Christ which was sent into the world in the beginning, to teach mortal men with free will, in the way that they should go. It is written that Israel ate and drank from this Spiritual Rock. In my understanding this Spirit offered Himself to His Father who sent Him from the heavens into the world, to lay down or Risk His Immortality, and become a mortal human being, for the purposes set forth by His Father. One of which was to become the Author and Finisher of perfect Faith, as it is clearly shown in Scriptures, "unconditional Belief in the Word of God". As it is written in the Gospel of this Christ, "The Just shall live by Faith"

The enemy of Faith must diminish it, destroy it. This is why, in my understanding, this world's religions, who have always been at enmity with God, cannot accept that Jesus was a man of Great Faith. That Jesus "overcame" sin and temptations in this world God placed Him in, by "unconditional Belief in the Word of God" shown by His Works, as He and His Father required of all others. That although HE was Just, HE didn't Live By Faith.

So they reject the Jesus "of the Bible" and His Father, and create instead a "triune god". Many cultures worshiped such a god. And to destroy true Faith, the "unconditional Belief in the Word of God", they promote a Christ, one of the 3 gods of their trinity, that came to earth as 100% God and 100% man. A Christ who reserved for Himself God powers HE and the other two parts of their trinity, withheld from all other humans. And it was by this power, not Faith as the Scriptures teach, but by accessing Powers they withheld from every other human, that he was able to overcome sin, temptation and death, while humans .

And when HE overcame by accessing these powers, HE and the other 2 gods in their trinity gave Himself a name above all other humans, who could have overcome had the trinity not withheld god powers from them.

You are right to question this world's religious system, like Paul did. This same System in Christ's Time also worked to destroy Faith. If men started living by Faith, what would become of their religious business? Who would buy their salvation from them? It's the same throughout the generations.

I think you are definitely on the right track ""Do and believe what Jesus did." Just as Jesus did and believed what His Father did.

And this, not because HE was GOD, but because HE was a man of Great faith.

Right. It isn't that what Jesus did was something unobtainable for the garden variety person. While it's true he never sinned at all in the first place, staying in sin isn't where Jesus believes people are required to stay based on something inherent to them. Jesus said "I have overcome the world" and expects others to overcome the world, too, just as the Bible says. I firmly believe Jesus is our example. When Jesus said we can do even greater works than he did, I am sure he didn't mean to say we can do greater works than God. Jesus is saying, more or less, if I did it then you can do it, too; and they did! Peter walked on water, Paul resurrected a dead person, and there were various other mighty works such as healings and exorcisms they performed. Not only the mighy miraculous works, but the abstinence from sin as well. We can stop sinning if we choose to because Jesus chose not to sin.

Do you agree Jesus is our example of what to do and believe?

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman



You worked hard to try to convince folks you believe Jesus was more than just a man, but will not confess who he truly is, your master has forbidden you to do so.

The Son OF God offered himself to God for the sins of his people. You might want to reconsider your confused mess, no doubt a serious pestilence, fulfilling Jesus' prophesy of the latter days, just before his coming.

I want to come back and address this in depth. later today. Actually it is folk like you that discredit Jesus' life as a surety for God's people by living a perfect life of faith and obedience and by that, secured eternal life for God's elect. Later. Would love to discuss this with you, and prove who truly is promoting the (as you continue to say) "religious philosophies of this world's religious system"~ it would be men like you sir.

I believe Jesus was the greatest mortal human ever born of a woman. A man with Great Faith, defined as "unconditional Belief in the Word of God, shown by His Works". And by His Faith, "HE Learned obedience through the things HE suffered", and by His Great Faith, HE was able to overcome Sin and Temptation and be "made perfect". Because of His Faith, His Father Glorified Him, and Raised Him from the dead, and gave Him a Name above all other humans, as God's Word teaches. "Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." He is truly my Lord, and Savior, and Author and Finisher of my faith. And will return when HIS Father directs Him. Only the next time HE comes, it won't be as a Lamb to the Slaughter. This world's religious system of Christ's Time called this Faithful Son of God, "a devil" for HIS Faith in God. The same religious system of my time that you are here to promote, accuses those who believe in the Faith Jesus promoted and lived by, "Denying the deity of Christ".

Mark 11: 22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. 23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

You promote a Jesus that wasn't a mortal human of Great faith at all, but a Christ who came to earth as 100% immortal God, who overcame sin and temptation, not by Faith, as the Gospel of Christ teaches, "The Just shall live by faith", but by reserving unto Himself God powers that HE withheld from all other humans. And then when HE overcame sin and temptation, not by Faith as He required of all others, even angels, but by reserving unto Himself God Powers HE withheld from all others, He Glorified Himself, and gave Himself a Name above all other humans.


I will not join you in your zealous promotion a Jesus such as yours, who placed requirements on the necks of others that He Himself refused to live by, because the bible doesn't promote such a Messiah, and Jesus Himself called this very behavior abhorrent.

But you will of course, continue justifying and promoting the Jesus of this world.

And I leave you to it.

 

[civic]

I believe Jesus was the greatest mortal human ever born of a woman. A man with Great Faith, defined as "unconditional Belief in the Word of God, shown by His Works". And by His Faith, "HE Learned obedience through the things HE suffered", and by His Great Faith, HE was able to overcome Sin and Temptation and be "made perfect". Because of His Faith, His Father Glorified Him, and Raised Him from the dead, and gave Him a Name above all other humans, as God's Word teaches. "Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore (Because of this) God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows." He is truly my Lord, and Savior, and Author and Finisher of my faith. And will return when HIS Father directs Him. Only the next time HE comes, it won't be as a Lamb to the Slaughter. This world's religious system of Christ's Time called this Faithful Son of God, "a devil" for HIS Faith in God. The same religious system of my time that you are here to promote, accuses those who believe in the Faith Jesus promoted and lived by, "Denying the deity of Christ".

Mark 11: 22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. 23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

You promote a Jesus that wasn't a mortal human of Great faith at all, but a Christ who came to earth as 100% immortal God, who overcame sin and temptation, not by Faith, as the Gospel of Christ teaches, "The Just shall live by faith", but by reserving unto Himself God powers that HE withheld from all other humans. And then when HE overcame sin and temptation, not by Faith as He required of all others, even angels, but by reserving unto Himself God Powers HE withheld from all others, He Glorified Himself, and gave Himself a Name above all other humans.


I will not join you in your zealous promotion a Jesus such as yours, who placed requirements on the necks of others that He Himself refused to live by, because the bible doesn't promote such a Messiah, and Jesus Himself called this very behavior abhorrent.

But you will of course, continue justifying and promoting the Jesus of this world.

And I leave you to it.

If as you say Jesus was a man of great faith , the greatest faith of any mortal man then why is His great faith missing from Hebrews 11 ?

And don't avoid the question as you have a habit of doing.

didn’t Jesus have the greatest faith ever known?

No, he didn’t, at least not according to the Gospels. Jesus uses the word “faith” 41 times in the Gospels (English Standard Version), and in every case he was speaking of someone else’s faith (or lack of it). He never used the term in the first person, speaking of his own faith. No other writer in the Bible spoke of Jesus’ faith, either.

Jesus did not need faith in the way humans do. This is because he is considered to be God incarnate, and therefore already possessed divine knowledge and a direct relationship with God. Faith, in the sense of trusting in something unseen, was not necessary for him, as he was both the subject and object of faith

The phrase "faith of Christ" is sometimes used, but it is generally interpreted as the faith in Christ, not Christ's own faith, it refers to the faith that comes from Christ or the faith that is placed in him.

Faith of Christ is a bad translation.

Since Jesus alone is the Savior of all men faith in Him is necessary to be saved. Jesus did not need to be saved hence no faith needed.

Jesus nowhere said He had faith nor did the Apostles. Faith in the N.T. is always linked to Jesus as the the one faith must be placed in, not His faith is what saves us. Jesus had no need of salvation and He is God Incarnate. Jesus uses the word “faith” 41 times in the Gospels and in every case He was speaking of someone else’s faith or their lack of faith. He never used faith about Himself, speaking of his own faith. No other writer in the Bible spoke of Jesus’ faith, either.

So why would I assume something the bible is silent on as fact regarding " Jesus faith" ?

Hebrews defines faith as the following: “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen” (11:1).

So Jesus knows all things in the unseen. He declared I always say and do what I see the Father saying and doing. He knew the hearts of man as God n the flesh. He knows the past, present and future. Its the same reason Jesus had no hope, it was not necessary since all hope is in Him and the recipient of our faith /hope.

conclusion: you are dead wrong about Jesus and His true identity.

next fallacy

hope this helps !!!

 

[Studyman]

Right. It isn't that what Jesus did was something unobtainable for the garden variety person. While it's true he never sinned at all in the first place, staying in sin isn't where Jesus believes people are required to stay based on something inherent to them. Jesus said "I have overcome the world" and expects others to overcome the world, too, just as the Bible says. I firmly believe Jesus is our example. When Jesus said we can do even greater works than he did, I am sure he didn't mean to say we can do greater works than God. Jesus is saying, more or less, if I did it then you can do it, too; and they did! Peter walked on water, Paul resurrected a dead person, and there were various other mighty works such as healings and exorcisms they performed. Not only the mighy miraculous works, but the abstinence from sin as well. We can stop sinning if we choose to because Jesus chose not to sin.

Do you agree Jesus is our example of what to do and believe?

I agree 100%. Consider, are you and I sinning against God right now? Are we lying to each other, stealing from each other, coveting each others stuff, lusting after each other's wife? Yesterday was God's Sabbath, and yesterday is gone, so we are not breaking God's Sabbath today. Are we rejecting our parents instruction? Are we vexing a non-Jew? Are we hating each other in our mind? Are we making unto ourself Idols, images of God?

Have we sinned? Surly we have. Do I have the ability to do evil within me, absolutely, just as Adam and Eve had the ability. But are you and I sinning against God right now? I would say no! We are fellowshipping with each other, and the Word of God (His spirit) is in our minds. Like you said, we both "Believe" in the Sayings of the Christ, and we believe enough to bring our mind and body into subjection to His Words, which are spirit and Truth, "Right Now". I believe this is called Faith.

Will you and I depart from this Faith in an hour? In 3 hours? I agree with you that we have been given by God the free will Ability to choose to remain "Yielding ourselves" servants to obey Him. And right now we are. I will be called all manner of names, ridiculed and shamed by this world's religions for even implying that you and I can Live by Faith and "sin not", or "go and sin no more", as Jesus instructed.

I don't think they understand what Faith is, and that men of Faith are going to have their faith tried and tested.

But what if my wife yells at me because she lost her purse? Shall lose control over my flesh? Shall
I push God's words from my mind? What if I have an appointment 5 hours away and my car won't start? Shall I forget God? What if the dog pees on my carpet. What if you get mad and call me a Unitarian Legalizer? Shall I reject God's instruction and "yield myself" to my own? Would all these things, if they happened, not be tests of my Faith? Isn't this how God grows the Faith of His People? Am I not made by God stronger, and learn obedience though these tests that I suffer?

What if there is "another voice" in the garden God placed me in, telling me God lied to me? What if I'm surrounded by 600,000 men who profess to know God, but wants to stone me to death because I have faith in God, like Caleb experienced?

What if the entire country mandates that I worship their image of god, even a handsome god, with long flowing hair, or they will throw me into a fiery furnace, like Abednego? What if God placed me in a world where the children of the devil are in charge of the Temple of God, like Jesus?

Yes Runningman, through Faith in God, the kind of Faith Jesus had, we can abstain against Sinning, in any circumstance God places us in. I absolutely agree that Jesus is our example, the perfect man of Faith, who remained obedient, even unto death. It is the mind of this Christ, that I want and pray for to be in me.

I am both extremely grateful, and encouraged by your words. And I thank you for your thoughtful replies and for letting me know that there are more out there, than our little flock, that believe all that is written, and that through Faith, defined as "unconditional Belief in the Word of God shown by works" the Lord's Christ Jesus was "made perfect", and became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" and is and will always be the Author and finisher of my Faith.

I hope you have a joyful day Runningman, as you have certainly brought joy to my day.

 

[Peterlag]

I agree 100%. Consider, are you and I sinning against God right now? Are we lying to each other, stealing from each other, coveting each others stuff, lusting after each other's wife? Yesterday was God's Sabbath, and yesterday is gone, so we are not breaking God's Sabbath today. Are we rejecting our parents instruction? Are we vexing a non-Jew? Are we hating each other in our mind? Are we making unto ourself Idols, images of God?

Have we sinned? Surly we have. Do I have the ability to do evil within me, absolutely, just as Adam and Eve had the ability. But are you and I sinning against God right now? I would say no! We are fellowshipping with each other, and the Word of God (His spirit) is in our minds. Like you said, we both "Believe" in the Sayings of the Christ, and we believe enough to bring our mind and body into subjection to His Words, which are spirit and Truth, "Right Now". I believe this is called Faith.

Will you and I depart from this Faith in an hour? In 3 hours? I agree with you that we have been given by God the free will Ability to choose to remain "Yielding ourselves" servants to obey Him. And right now we are. I will be called all manner of names, ridiculed and shamed by this world's religions for even implying that you and I can Live by Faith and "sin not", or "go and sin no more", as Jesus instructed.

I don't think they understand what Faith is, and that men of Faith are going to have their faith tried and tested.

But what if my wife yells at me because she lost her purse? Shall lose control over my flesh? Shall
I push God's words from my mind? What if I have an appointment 5 hours away and my car won't start? Shall I forget God? What if the dog pees on my carpet. What if you get mad and call me a Unitarian Legalizer? Shall I reject God's instruction and "yield myself" to my own? Would all these things, if they happened, not be tests of my Faith? Isn't this how God grows the Faith of His People? Am I not made by God stronger, and learn obedience though these tests that I suffer?

What if there is "another voice" in the garden God placed me in, telling me God lied to me? What if I'm surrounded by 600,000 men who profess to know God, but wants to stone me to death because I have faith in God, like Caleb experienced?

What if the entire country mandates that I worship their image of god, even a handsome god, with long flowing hair, or they will throw me into a fiery furnace, like Abednego? What if God placed me in a world where the children of the devil are in charge of the Temple of God, like Jesus?

Yes Runningman, through Faith in God, the kind of Faith Jesus had, we can abstain against Sinning, in any circumstance God places us in. I absolutely agree that Jesus is our example, the perfect man of Faith, who remained obedient, even unto death. It is the mind of this Christ, that I want and pray for to be in me.

I am both extremely grateful, and encouraged by your words. And I thank you for your thoughtful replies and for letting me know that there are more out there, than our little flock, that believe all that is written, and that through Faith, defined as "unconditional Belief in the Word of God shown by works" the Lord's Christ Jesus was "made perfect", and became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" and is and will always be the Author and finisher of my Faith.

I hope you have a joyful day Runningman, as you have certainly brought joy to my day.

Now I finally know why when we follow after the spirit we will not walk after the lust of the flesh.

The reason I cannot lust in the flesh when following after the spirit is because it's impossible to do so since the spirit of Christ does not lust after the flesh. Religious people don't follow after the spirit, but rather they follow after their flesh and call it spiritual. The religious folks lead with their flesh and call it Christian. The church folks clean up their flesh by making themselves nice. Then they say this is Christian because we are being nice like the way Jesus was. In contrast to that, I believe we should walk after the spirit of Christ.

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

 

[Studyman]

If as you say Jesus was a man of great faith , the greatest faith of any mortal man then why is His great faith missing from Hebrews 11 ?

Hebrews 11 was giving Example of Faith given them in the only Holy Scriptures that existed at the time, that is "The Law and Prophets". The Christ existed as a Spirit in that time, according to what is written.

Num. 14: 22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; 23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it: 24 But my servant Caleb, because he had "another spirit" with him, and "hath followed me fully", him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

I believe this Sprit was the Spirit of Christ, that Spiritual Rock and Caleb ate and drank from, which taught him to "choose the good and refuse the evil", or as God said, "To follow Him Fully", as did other men of Faith.

It is Prophesied of the man child, "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

I believe this "Butter and honey" is symbolic of the "same spiritual meat and the same spiritual drink Abraham and Caleb drank and ate: "for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ". Jesus would also eat of the same Spirit, that HE might "Learn obedience" and be "Made Perfect", as it is written.

 

[Studyman]

Now I finally know why when we follow after the spirit we will not walk after the lust of the flesh.

The reason I cannot lust in the flesh when following after the spirit is because it's impossible to do so since the spirit of Christ does not lust after the flesh. Religious people don't follow after the spirit, but rather they follow after their flesh and call it spiritual. The religious folks lead with their flesh and call it Christian. The church folks clean up their flesh by making themselves nice. Then they say this is Christian because we are being nice like the way Jesus was. In contrast to that, I believe we should walk after the spirit of Christ.

Galatians 5:16
This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

You will notice that they are "nice" according to their definition, and they promote "their nice" to be seen of men. But when Jesus talked to men who promoted the same disobedience, HE was nice to them and loved them by exposing their hypocrisy and who their father really was. "Nice" is subjective for sure. Now I don't want to excuse some of my behavior, I was born and raised a cowboy, and I was a fighter. I struggle with this to this very day being drawn away by my old self, to my shame, into foolish arguments.

You make a great point about Paul's words. Here is the cure He "Yielded himself" to, in order to "walk in the Spirit".

Rom. 7: 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The flesh is dead because of sin. A dead flesh can only direct us if we turn from God and give it life.

 

[Peterlag]

You will notice that they are "nice" according to their definition, and they promote "their nice" to be seen of men. But when Jesus talked to men who promoted the same disobedience, HE was nice to them and loved them by exposing their hypocrisy and who their father really was. "Nice" is subjective for sure. Now I don't want to excuse some of my behavior, I was born and raised a cowboy, and I was a fighter. I struggle with this to this very day being drawn away by my old self, to my shame, into foolish arguments.

You make a great point about Paul's words. Here is the cure He "Yielded himself" to, in order to "walk in the Spirit".

Rom. 7: 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

The flesh is dead because of sin. A dead flesh can only direct us if we turn from God and give it life.

Romans 7 tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to those who are into or know the law. And then the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about Israel and their Law and how they toy with their flesh. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we over come this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

 

[Runningman]

I agree 100%. Consider, are you and I sinning against God right now? Are we lying to each other, stealing from each other, coveting each others stuff, lusting after each other's wife? Yesterday was God's Sabbath, and yesterday is gone, so we are not breaking God's Sabbath today. Are we rejecting our parents instruction? Are we vexing a non-Jew? Are we hating each other in our mind? Are we making unto ourself Idols, images of God?

Have we sinned? Surly we have. Do I have the ability to do evil within me, absolutely, just as Adam and Eve had the ability. But are you and I sinning against God right now? I would say no! We are fellowshipping with each other, and the Word of God (His spirit) is in our minds. Like you said, we both "Believe" in the Sayings of the Christ, and we believe enough to bring our mind and body into subjection to His Words, which are spirit and Truth, "Right Now". I believe this is called Faith.

Will you and I depart from this Faith in an hour? In 3 hours? I agree with you that we have been given by God the free will Ability to choose to remain "Yielding ourselves" servants to obey Him. And right now we are. I will be called all manner of names, ridiculed and shamed by this world's religions for even implying that you and I can Live by Faith and "sin not", or "go and sin no more", as Jesus instructed.

I don't think they understand what Faith is, and that men of Faith are going to have their faith tried and tested.

But what if my wife yells at me because she lost her purse? Shall lose control over my flesh? Shall
I push God's words from my mind? What if I have an appointment 5 hours away and my car won't start? Shall I forget God? What if the dog pees on my carpet. What if you get mad and call me a Unitarian Legalizer? Shall I reject God's instruction and "yield myself" to my own? Would all these things, if they happened, not be tests of my Faith? Isn't this how God grows the Faith of His People? Am I not made by God stronger, and learn obedience though these tests that I suffer?

What if there is "another voice" in the garden God placed me in, telling me God lied to me? What if I'm surrounded by 600,000 men who profess to know God, but wants to stone me to death because I have faith in God, like Caleb experienced?

What if the entire country mandates that I worship their image of god, even a handsome god, with long flowing hair, or they will throw me into a fiery furnace, like Abednego? What if God placed me in a world where the children of the devil are in charge of the Temple of God, like Jesus?

Yes Runningman, through Faith in God, the kind of Faith Jesus had, we can abstain against Sinning, in any circumstance God places us in. I absolutely agree that Jesus is our example, the perfect man of Faith, who remained obedient, even unto death. It is the mind of this Christ, that I want and pray for to be in me.

I am both extremely grateful, and encouraged by your words. And I thank you for your thoughtful replies and for letting me know that there are more out there, than our little flock, that believe all that is written, and that through Faith, defined as "unconditional Belief in the Word of God shown by works" the Lord's Christ Jesus was "made perfect", and became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" and is and will always be the Author and finisher of my Faith.

I hope you have a joyful day Runningman, as you have certainly brought joy to my day.

I agree with what you are saying.

The key to understanding why the Trinitarians reject what Jesus taught is that they define sin like a contagious disease that spreads from person to person and is inherited, rather than defining sin as choosing to violate points in the Law of God.

They see sin as some stain that won't wash off until God removes it. Even if they are not lying, cheating, and stealing right now, most of the ones I have talked to still see themselves as being "in sin" because of something inherent to their nature, rather than sin being something they choose to do. In that way they think they can never stop sinning and when they do sin they accept it rather than making it a priority to repent, cease, and desist all sinful activity immediately - just as Jesus and the apostles taught. This is why many of them will not repent more than once; they've more or less given in to sin and accepted it as an attribute fundamental to their day-to-day activities.

There is great danger in this because they have convinced themselves they have no culpability in their choice to sin, contrary to there being a works-based final judgement for everyone, whether they be Christian or non-Christian, Jew or Gentile, male or female, rich or poor, etc.

This is why most of them will not agree that they can stop sinning because they think they have contracted the "sin disease" and can't rid it from their bodies; however, the reality is that people are only sinning when they violate the law of God. When they are not violating the law of God they are not sinning. It's really as simple as that.

It's certainly refreshing to see you express these thoughts and beliefs. It's rare nowadays. May God bless you.

 

[civic]

I agree with what you are saying.

The key to understanding why the Trinitarians reject what Jesus taught is that they define sin like a contagious disease that spreads from person to person and is inherited, rather than defining sin as choosing to violate points in the Law of God.

They see sin as some stain that won't wash off until God removes it. Even if they are not lying, cheating, and stealing right now, most of the ones I have talked to still see themselves as being "in sin" because of something inherent to their nature, rather than sin being something they choose to do. In that way they think they can never stop sinning and when they do sin they accept it rather than making it a priority to repent, cease, and desist all sinful activity immediately - just as Jesus and the apostles taught. This is why many of them will not repent more than once; they've more or less given in to sin and accepted it as an attribute fundamental to their day-to-day activities. There is great danger in this.

This is why most of them will not agree that they can stop sinning because they think they have contracted the "sin disease" and can't rid it from their bodies; however, the reality is that people are only sinning when they violate the law of God. When they are not violating the law of God they are not sinning. It's really as simple as that.

It's certainly refreshing to see you express these thoughts and beliefs. It's rare nowadays. May God bless you.

You constantly misrepresent what we believe and not all trins agree on this topic just like not all unis agree on this topic of sin.

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