A request

[Runningman]

You constantly misrepresent what we believe and not all trins agree on this topic just like not all unis agree on this topic of sin.

Next fallacy

most of the ones I have talked to still see themselves as being "in sin" because of something inherent to their nature, rather than sin being something they choose to do.

This is why many of them will not repent more than once; they've more or less given in to sin and accepted it as an attribute fundamental to their day-to-day activities.

I didn't generalize. Read the quotes from my message again. I shared my true experience with what I have experienced with Trinitarians.

 

[Studyman]

I didn't generalize. Read the quotes from my message again. I shared my true experience with what I have experienced with Trinitarians.

And I too, have experienced the same. And the Spirit of Christ prophesied of the exact same thing. And history is full of men, who profess to know God who are living as Runningman described. Does it matter? It did to the Jesus of the bible, and therefore it does to me.

 

[civic]

I didn't generalize. Read the quotes from my message again. I shared my true experience with what I have experienced with Trinitarians.

I don’t believe what you claimed and I’m a Trin.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

My issue with the religious philosophies of this Word's religious system that you are here to promote, is that you would further the prince of this world mission to erase Jesus' Faith, demean and discredit His Diligence and Love and dedication for His God and my God, to promote "another Jesus" who overcame sin and temptation, not by Faith, as HE requires from other humans, but by reserving unto Himself God Powers you preach HE withheld from all other humans ever born. And then when HE overcame sin and temptation by accessing these powers that anyone who possessed, would also overcome had they not been withheld from them, HE gave Himself a Name above all other Humans.

Let me address each point separately as you continue the same ranting spirit of devil himself working through you. It is time to be speaking plainly without holding back words necessary to be spoken, to warn folks like you and now your friends, which you have "finally" come out of the closet and identified yourself with your true family of heretics.

This debate is strictly concerning Jesus' deity, let's keep it there, after I will address this one point concerning Jesus' faith.
Also, I want to go on the offense since this so far I have been dealing you the heretics rejecting Jesus' deity.

1) You said: "you are here to promote, is that you would further the prince of this world mission to erase Jesus' Faith,"
Well, Mr. Student of the scriptures, as you call yourself, you do not follow very well, and you definitely have me pegged incorrectly. Let me prove this to you.

I know very well that God sent his Son into the world to be a surety of his elect, and that meant he came not as a private person, but an representative head of an elect body, just as the first Adam stood as an representative of his posterity.

Romans 5:14​

“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”

In what sense was Adam a figure of the second Adam? To very brief....

Since Adam’s sin is imputed to men, therefore Adam is the figure of Jesus Christ (Romans 4:6-8; 5:12, etc.). The substitutionary life (of faith and obedience) and death of Jesus are imputed to God’s elect ( 2nd Corinthians 5:21; 1st Peter 2:24; etc. ) Adam is a figure of Jesus Christ according to the testimony of Scripture ( 1st Corinthians 15: 21,22, 45-49). This comparison, which teaches unconditional eternal life by Jesus alone, is easily develop in the scriptures, and we could, if time would permit us to do so, but not now, not here.

So, I teach that Jesus' faith and obedience as a man is the very heart of the gospel of Jesus Christ which you totally reject and deny.

Romans 3:22​

“Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:”

Galatians 2:16​

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

Philippians 3:9​

“And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:”

Galatians 2:20​

“I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.”

The very life I live as a child of God I live by the faith "OF "Jesus Christ, through the power of the new man within me, created after the image of Jesus Christ!

You reject this blessed truth thinking you are doing God a service with your faith produce by the energy of your sinful flesh! Do not come back with your long drawn out verbose of the religious philosophies of this Word's religious system, etc., etc. I have heard it a thousand times, in the little world of the scriptures you live in.

2) You said: "but by reserving unto Himself God Powers you preach HE withheld from all other humans ever born. And then when HE overcame sin and temptation by accessing these powers that anyone who possessed, would also overcome had they not been withheld from them, HE gave Himself a Name above all other Humans."
I have already address this several times over the last few weeks or so. One more time and no more. Jesus Christ was not your normal flesh and blood human, not even close. Christ was Immanuel made flesh, which be interpreted is God with us. Mary gave birth to God' Son..... conceived by the power of the Highest, making him equal with God. He was God's ONLY begotten Son in the manner in which he was born of flesh and blood. He did not BECOME PERFECT, he was holy without sin from conception, and proved to be the Son of God, by living without sin until being put to death, not for his own sins, but for the sins of his people. Bottom line, Jesus was a complex person, fully man and fully God, yet he live the life of faith AS A MAN, thereby he is called he Son of Man. You are mocking a truth that you have no understanding concerning.

You said: "would also overcome had they not been withheld from them"

Listen Ismael, God gave your father Adam a perfect opportunity to not sin, yet what happened to him and you in him? Just because God sent His ONLY begotten Son to show your proud heart what you could not do what he did perfectly, does this upset you? Then too bad, you were not conceived by God, but through Adam's generation of sinners.

You are a mocker of God's word, while all along you think you are being used of God, when you will soon found out otherwise.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

I believe Jesus was the greatest mortal human ever born of a woman. A man with Great Faith, defined as "unconditional Belief in the Word of God, shown by His Works". And by His Faith, "HE Learned obedience through the things HE suffered", and by His Great Faith, HE was able to overcome Sin and Temptation and be "made perfect".

1) Let me address this this point that you put into bold letters.

You said: HE was able to overcome Sin and Temptation and be "made perfect". So, you think Jesus was not perfect when he was conceived in the womb of Mary? Your corrupt way of thinking (and you believe you're a student of the scriptures, that's a joke) you truly believe Jesus had to be made perfect, as to his person.

You have no clue how to understand the word of God, and neither do you now bosom friends.
Hebrews 5:6
“As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.”

Hebrews 5:10​

“Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.”

Hebrews 5:9​

“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”

So, Mr. Student of the scriptures you think Jesus was not perfect? Your jesus is another Jesus, not the very Son of God, who name was called Immanuel, The Word of God.

"And being made perfect"~ not to person, that's impossible, but with respect unto the administration of His office in the behalf of his redeemed people as a priest forever.

"And being made perfect" does not contemplate any change wrought in His person, but speaks of His being fully qualified to officiate as Priest, to present Himself to God as a perfect sacrifice (from conception to his death on the cross) for the sins of His people. His official "perfecting" was accomplished in and by means of His sufferings. By His offering up of Himself He was consecrated to the priestly office, and by the active presentation of His sacrifice to God He discharged the essential function thereof.

Your theology is as dry as Atacama Desert, known as the driest place on earth, you and your friends have it beat.

I believe Jesus was the greatest mortal human ever born of a woman.

And that's as far as you are willing to go, pitiful and a shame ~ one day you will regret ever comparing him no higher than mortal man, whose breath of life is in his nostrils. The apostle John said words concerning our Lord Jesus that every child of God knows to be true, and rejoice when we hear them.

1st John 1:1-3​

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.”

Jesus' sonship had a beginning as the Son of Man, but his deity as the Word of life, called "THAT" eternal life, proves he had NO beginning and shall have no end. He truly was with the Father as being of ONE ESSENCE and the ONE Lord God named Jehovah, Creator of all things.

You promote a Jesus that wasn't a mortal human of Great faith at all, but a Christ who came to earth as 100% immortal God, who overcame sin and temptation, not by Faith, as the Gospel of Christ teaches, "The Just shall live by faith", but by reserving unto Himself God powers that HE withheld from all other humans. And then when HE overcame sin and temptation, not by Faith as He required of all others, even angels, but by reserving unto Himself God Powers HE withheld from all others, He Glorified Himself, and gave Himself a Name above all other humans.

I teach what the scriptures clearly reveal to us; Jesus was indeed a man, who secured the salvation for God's elect by his faith (as a man) and by his perfect obedience, as a man, on the behalf of those given to him of God to redeem. So, at least try to be honest and stop lying.

But, I also know that he was more than a man, for the winds obey his voice; devils trembled before him, begging him not to torment them before the time; he knew the thoughts of all men, when they thought they were known only to themselves; he could take two small fishes and a few loaves of bread and feed five thousands plus, and still have some left over, even more than they started with. He could raise the dead, heal all manner of diseases, etc., etc. He made a strong believer out of Thomas, out of Nathaniel, which only deity could do. There was not one thing he could not do, not one thing he ever fail to do that he attempted to do, not one. Can you turn water into wine? Not only turn water into wine, but the very best of wine that man has ever tasted, No problem for Jesus. He's my God, and the God of all the saints, the only God we shall ever see with our eyes.

I will not join you in your zealous promotion a Jesus such as yours,

I'm sure you will not, but more sure you cannot, unless you are taught of God to come, and it seem clear to me, you have not been call by him. My Lord Jesus is just as John said that he is:

1st John 5:20​

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”

​

 

[Runningman]

I don’t believe what you claimed and I’m a Trin.

That's good to hear, but you're among a minority of Trinitarians who seem to actually agree with what I said. What denomination are you, if I may ask?

 

[Red Baker]

@Runninman

The key to understanding why the Trinitarians reject what Jesus taught is that they define sin like a contagious disease that spreads from person to person and is inherited, rather than defining sin as choosing to violate points in the Law of God.

Actually it is "both". If you really ponder this in light of the word of God, then it is clearly seen as both. We all keep our children from being friends with certain people that we know would be a bad influence on them, knowing......

1st Corinthians 15:33​

“Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.”

Both (our children and children of the world) are born with Adam's sinful nature, but some parents teach their children good, holy manners from day one and labor to instill God's word and ways into the heart of our their children, grandchildren etc. beginning at the first sign of seeing any disobedience in them like crying to get their own way, we used certain means to get their attention.

Example: I had a close friend many years ago leaving their son Matthew with us while they went somewhere, forgot now since it has been over forty years or more. I said to them ~what should we do if he start crying knowing you are not here, they said all you have to do is say Matthew no, and put you fingers on his legs and he will stop, They would give him a little pinch when he cry to get his own way, and they very quickly got his attention with a small pinch to the legs, and it worked, no problem, he learned who to obey very quickly, he knew no meant stop. Matthew was around ten month or so. This young man turned out to be an outstanding young man. Do not tell me that it does not work because I know it does first hand. Pain is a language they learn very quickly. A little twist of the finger on the back part of their upper arm is a good tools to use to get their attention.

By doing so, we restrain sin that's in their old Adamic nature and may do so all their life to a certain degree with God's blessings, or, until they are born again, then the Spirit of God will be their restraining power keeping their conscience from being harden against His word.

Psalms 76:10​

“Surely the wrath of man shall praise thee: the remainder of wrath shalt thou restrain.”

Back to the topic.

 

[Red Baker]

@Peterlag

There's no Scripture that says a God redeemed us. The Bible says a man did.

Are you sure, real sure? You are wrong, badly wrong.

Titus 2:13​

“Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”

Acts 20:28​

“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.”

This can only be so, if Christ was indeed as the scriptures gives testimony to, God manifest in the flesh. In the mouth of two or three witnesses is a saying establish as true! Paul and Luke both taught that Jesus was God in the likeness of human flesh, without sin, in order to condemned sin in the flesh and he did indeed, it shall once and for all be destroy. It is already a defeated enemy.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

These scriptures are not hard to understand, we just give them their proper sense. As far as Jesus' humanity goes this is true.

You reject the complex nature of Christ since you cannot get your understanding around this truth. You think that it is impossible for God to become a Father and still be Spirit who lives in eternity.

The only way God can be known and fellowship with is through becoming a man, yet still being a Spirit that no man, or even angels can ever approach unto. His Son is the very express image of who God is, see the Son, then one has seen God. When the Word was made flesh in the person of Jesus Christ, the angels of God saw God for he first time ~ that's the only meaning of 1st Timothy 3:16 were it written:

1st Timothy 3:16​

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”

Why did Paul write those words? To me it is not hard to understand, since no man, or angels, have ever seen God, that is impossible and not be consumed. The angles of God saw God for the first time when they saw Jesus around two thousand years ago.

1 Timothy 6:15​

“Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”

We shall see God in the person of His Son Jesus Christ, who truly is the Alpha and the Omega.

Do not come back with a long winded speech of a bunch of nothing, using same old speech, btw that we all have heard many times over, I almost have it memorized word by word,

Address what I say and the scriptures I use to prove me wrong, something you avoid like a deadly pestilence.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

What? Now wait a minute preacher, you and Red and Benny Hinn

Why do you think you have to put me in the same breath as with Benny Hinn, when we are world's apart in out teachings? He is very close to you in his soteriology, than to me, actually you two preach the same gospel when it comes to man's free will, being co-partner with Christ in one's salvation from sin and condemnation.

"a Jesus" who walked this earth as "100%" Almighty God and "100%" man.

That he was indeed. I'm starting tomorrow going on the offense to prove this with scriptures, and let's see if your four can disprove what I'm going to post with scriptures, it should be interesting to see. I'm not going to respond to your ranting and raging, you must use scriptures proving my scriptural use of them is wrong.

How many "Almighty Gods" are there in your religion?

`We shall see only ONE in that day, for God is a Spirit that lives in eternity, always has, alwasy will, that will never change, no never! You will meet him face to face very soon.

But now you want Peter and I and everyone else to believe He did walk the earth as 100% "Almighty God".

John 1:1,14; 1st Timothy 3:16, said that you are a liar, and a false professor, wolves in sheep clothing.

John. 4: 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, "when the true worshippers" shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father "seeketh such to worship him". 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

As the Son of God, he spoke of his Father, yet bible Christian learn to honour the Son just as much a they honour God, for he was indeed equal to God being begotten of Him.

John 5:23​

“That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.”

Philippians 2:6​

“Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:”

 

[FreeInChrist]

@Studyman

1) Let me address this this point that you put into bold letters.

You said: HE was able to overcome Sin and Temptation and be "made perfect". So, you think Jesus was not perfect when he was conceived in the womb of Mary? Your corrupt way of thinking (and you believe you're a student of the scriptures, that's a joke) you truly believe Jesus had to be made perfect, as to his person.

You have no clue how to understand the word of God, and neither do you now bosom friends.
Hebrews 5:6
“As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.”

Hebrews 5:10​

“Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.”

Hebrews 5:9​

“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”

So, Mr. Student of the scriptures you think Jesus was not perfect? Your jesus is another Jesus, not the very Son of God, who name was called Immanuel, The Word of God.

"And being made perfect"~ not to person, that's impossible, but with respect unto the administration of His office in the behalf of his redeemed people as a priest forever.

"And being made perfect" does not contemplate any change wrought in His person, but speaks of His being fully qualified to officiate as Priest, to present Himself to God as a perfect sacrifice (from conception to his death on the cross) for the sins of His people. His official "perfecting" was accomplished in and by means of His sufferings. By His offering up of Himself He was consecrated to the priestly office, and by the active presentation of His sacrifice to God He discharged the essential function thereof.

Your theology is as dry as Atacama Desert, known as the driest place on earth, you and your friends have it beat.

And that's as far as you are willing to go, pitiful and a shame ~ one day you will regret ever comparing him no higher than mortal man, whose breath of life is in his nostrils. The apostle John said words concerning our Lord Jesus that every child of God knows to be true, and rejoice when we hear them.

1st John 1:1-3​

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.”

Jesus' sonship had a beginning as the Son of Man, but his deity as the Word of life, called "THAT" eternal life, proves he had NO beginning and shall have no end. He truly was with the Father as being of ONE ESSENCE and the ONE Lord God named Jehovah, Creator of all things.

I teach what the scriptures clearly reveal to us; Jesus was indeed a man, who secured the salvation for God's elect by his faith (as a man) and by his perfect obedience, as a man, on the behalf of those given to him of God to redeem. So, at least try to be honest and stop lying.

But, I also know that he was more than a man, for the winds obey his voice; devils trembled before him, begging him not to torment them before the time; he knew the thoughts of all men, when they thought they were known only to themselves; he could take two small fishes and a few loaves of bread and feed five thousands plus, and still have some left over, even more than they started with. He could raise the dead, heal all manner of diseases, etc., etc. He made a strong believer out of Thomas, out of Nathaniel, which only deity could do. There was not one thing he could not do, not one thing he ever fail to do that he attempted to do, not one. Can you turn water into wine? Not only turn water into wine, but the very best of wine that man has ever tasted, No problem for Jesus. He's my God, and the God of all the saints, the only God we shall ever see with our eyes.

I'm sure you will not, but more sure you cannot, unless you are taught of God to come, and it seem clear to me, you have not been call by him. My Lord Jesus is just as John said that he is:

1st John 5:20​

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”

​

Red,

He has no idea of even how Jesus came to be and from where he came or who he was before coming to earth.

He started out with a fascination on Adam and Eve and this morphing Jesus into a basic mortal that was able to overcome Sin and Temptation and be "made perfect". Which suggests Jesus sinned . You cannot overcome something that you have no
experience with. It would be like a teatoattler over coming alcohol when they never even used real vanilla. (My grandmother)... and I know you will understand... he wont

I have no idea who has done a perfect brainwashing on him... but Patty Hearst's was on par.

No idea what he is reading because it is not from any translation I am aware of.

And he NOW is being fed by the dastardly duo who are more vociferous then the other in the alternate universe that has tried to infiltrate us all in the way of a counter -trinity.

 

[Red Baker]

@FreeInChrist

He started out with a fascination on Adam and Eve and this morphing Jesus into a basic mortal that was able to overcome Sin and Temptation and be "made perfect". Which suggests Jesus sinned . You cannot overcome something that you have no
experience with. It would be like a teatoattler over coming alcohol when they never even used real vanilla. (My grandmother)... and I know you will understand... he wont

Seems to be a very good analogy. I'll have to ponder this a little more. I do not believe he believes that Jesus sinned, yet he refuses to give Christ the honour of who he truly is ~ The Mighty God of Genesis 1:1. He actually mocks this blessed truth. I would not want to die believing the way he does.

Colossians 1:15-17~"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist."

God is invisible; God is a Spirit; these two truths will never be alter. The Son of God now has a glorified body that has power to appear; disappear; think to be somewhere and instantly are there, can appear and disappear at will.

Somewhere may ask this question: how does God communicate with angles who are also spirits since no man or angels can ever see the light in which God dwells?

With us, God communicates us through the scriptures, maybe through dreams with some of us, even though we are unware of it, yet we may have some strong convictions of our hearts, moves to to do certain things, yet we have never personally talked to God other than through his word.

Job 33:14-17​

“For God speaketh once, yea twice, yet man perceiveth it not. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed; Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction, That he may withdraw man from his purpose, and hide pride from man.”

So how does God communicates with his angles? He does not tell us other than he does speak with them and they do his bidding swiftly. We are not privy to that world of spirits, since we have never experience it, we have no ideal of how it is done, other than we know there is a link of communication between them and God.

 

[synergy]

Red,

He has no idea of even how Jesus came to be and from where he came or who he was before coming to earth.

He started out with a fascination on Adam and Eve and this morphing Jesus into a basic mortal that was able to overcome Sin and Temptation and be "made perfect". Which suggests Jesus sinned . You cannot overcome something that you have no
experience with. It would be like a teatoattler over coming alcohol when they never even used real vanilla. (My grandmother)... and I know you will understand... he wont

I have no idea who has done a perfect brainwashing on him... but Patty Hearst's was on par.

No idea what he is reading because it is not from any translation I am aware of.

And he NOW is being fed by the dastardly duo who are more vociferous then the other in the alternate universe that has tried to infiltrate us all in the way of a counter -trinity.

I agree. All anti-Trinitarians have no understanding or even clue as to who the Word of God was before he <tabernacled> as Jesus on Earth (John 1:14).. The Greek word ἐσκήνωσεν contains a treasure chest of meanings. Just as God tabernacled and radiated his Shekinah in the OT, the Word now tabernacles and radiates his Shekinah Light as Jesus.

 

[Studyman]

I agree with what you are saying.

The key to understanding why the Trinitarians reject what Jesus taught is that they define sin like a contagious disease that spreads from person to person and is inherited, rather than defining sin as choosing to violate points in the Law of God.

They see sin as some stain that won't wash off until God removes it. Even if they are not lying, cheating, and stealing right now, most of the ones I have talked to still see themselves as being "in sin" because of something inherent to their nature, rather than sin being something they choose to do. In that way they think they can never stop sinning and when they do sin they accept it rather than making it a priority to repent, cease, and desist all sinful activity immediately - just as Jesus and the apostles taught. This is why many of them will not repent more than once; they've more or less given in to sin and accepted it as an attribute fundamental to their day-to-day activities.

There is great danger in this because they have convinced themselves they have no culpability in their choice to sin, contrary to there being a works-based final judgement for everyone, whether they be Christian or non-Christian, Jew or Gentile, male or female, rich or poor, etc.

This is why most of them will not agree that they can stop sinning because they think they have contracted the "sin disease" and can't rid it from their bodies; however, the reality is that people are only sinning when they violate the law of God. When they are not violating the law of God they are not sinning. It's really as simple as that.

It's certainly refreshing to see you express these thoughts and beliefs. It's rare nowadays. May God bless you.

This is spot on. They promote a religious philosophy that Adam chose to reject God's Word over the lusts of his own flesh, and because of this choice Adam made, God created in them a "sin nature". All this for the purpose of justifying sin, rather than striving against it. "I sinned, BEAUSE of the talking snake you placed in the garden". "I sinned BECAUSE of the woman you gave me". And they almost brag about it on this forum, "We sin BECAUSE God made us with a "sin nature".

When the "TRUTH" is, they choose, of their own free will, to reject God's Judgments, Statutes and Laws, and they choose of their own free will to "Live by" the Words of the other voices in the garden God placed them in. And they are not ashamed "because they have convinced (deceived) themselves they have no culpability in their choice to sin".

Very well put Runningman, and aligns perfectly with what is actually written in Scriptures, if all His Inspired Words are considered.

 

[synergy]

This is spot on. They promote a religious philosophy that Adam chose to reject God's Word over the lusts of his own flesh, and because of this choice Adam made, God created in them a "sin nature". All this for the purpose of justifying sin, rather than striving against it. "I sinned, BEAUSE of the talking snake you placed in the garden". "I sinned BECAUSE of the woman you gave me". And they almost brag about it on this forum, "We sin BECAUSE God made us with a "sin nature".

When the "TRUTH" is, they choose, of their own free will, to reject God's Judgments, Statutes and Laws, and they choose of their own free will to "Live by" the Words of the other voices in the garden God placed them in. And they are not ashamed "because they have convinced (deceived) themselves they have no culpability in their choice to sin".

Very well put Runningman, and aligns perfectly with what is actually written in Scriptures, if all His Inspired Words are considered.

I also do not believe that God created a "sin nature". That does not nullify the fact that "the Word was God" (John 1:1c) and that the Word <tabernacled> (ἐσκήνωσεν) as Jesus on Earth (John 1:14).

 

[FreeInChrist]

I agree. All anti-Trinitarians have no understanding or even clue as to who the Word of God was before he <tabernacled> as Jesus on Earth (John 1:14).. The Greek word ἐσκήνωσεν contains a treasure chest of meanings. Just as God tabernacled and radiated his Shekinah in the OT, the Word now tabernacles and radiates his Shekinah Light as Jesus.

If we knew why this seems so important to them, we might know how it came to be.

If they all read the NWT bible we might have a glimpse, but not all do.

Certainly all cannot have come to the same conclusion by themselves???? Or could they.

We have the 4 corners of the Holy Scriptures as testimony.

 

[FreeInChrist]

This is spot on. They promote a religious philosophy that Adam chose to reject God's Word over the lusts of his own flesh, and because of this choice Adam made, God created in them a "sin nature". All this for the purpose of justifying sin, rather than striving against it. "I sinned, BEAUSE of the talking snake you placed in the garden". "I sinned BECAUSE of the woman you gave me". And they almost brag about it on this forum, "We sin BECAUSE God made us with a "sin nature".

When the "TRUTH" is, they choose, of their own free will, to reject God's Judgments, Statutes and Laws, and they choose of their own free will to "Live by" the Words of the other voices in the garden God placed them in. And they are not ashamed "because they have convinced (deceived) themselves they have no culpability in their choice to sin".

Very well put Runningman, and aligns perfectly with what is actually written in Scriptures, if all His Inspired Words are considered.

Well... there he goes again " They promote a religious philosophy that Adam chose to reject God's Word over the lusts of his own flesh,"

This in and of itself could convince me he is the reincarnation of Adam......... SMH

Hey @Studyman.

You say " over the lusts of his own flesh," Have you forgotten what it was like before you had your wife?

It seems so.

Now how can I say this with a PG13 rating.

Certainly Adam lusted after Eve. And he could well have been afraid if he did not at least taste that fruit that she offered because
she was certainly not dead or she could not have.... He well could have been afraid she would get another "headache"

 

[FreeInChrist]

I also do not believe that God created a "sin nature". That does not nullify the fact that "the Word was God" (John 1:1c) and that the Word <tabernacled> (ἐσκήνωσεν) as Jesus on Earth (John 1:14).

I agree. But no one knows where the free will will carry one.

When I was a child I stole... I confess... penny candy or chocolate drops from the counter of the grocery store. Why? Because
it was good so I wanted it. I would never have stolen a roll or cracker or a Kumquat . But that that would make me feel good.

That was a sin nature brought on by me.

As is all else that people refuse to repent from.

BTW I said when I grew up I would pay the dairy bar and grocer for what I took.

I grew up and the stores were gone.

 

[Red Baker]

@synergy

I also do not believe that God created a "sin nature".

No one here teaches that God created a sinful nature in Adam, or the devils that left their first estate, no one. God's very own testimony is recorded for us concerning creation of man.

Genesis 1:31​

“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”

A wise man once said:

Ecclesiastes 7:29​

“Lo, this only have I found, that God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions.”

Man took on the image of his new master the devil himself once they were deceived by him ~ Evil thoughts, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, and evil eye, blasphemy, foolishness, pride, darkness, void of any spiritual knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

That does not nullify the fact that "the Word was God" (John 1:1c) and that the Word <tabernacled> (ἐσκήνωσεν) as Jesus on Earth (John 1:14).

Very true.

 

[synergy]

I agree. But no one knows where the free will will carry one.

When I was a child I stole... I confess... penny candy or chocolate drops from the counter of the grocery store. Why? Because
it was good so I wanted it. I would never have stolen a roll or cracker or a Kumquat . But that that would make me feel good.

That was a sin nature brought on by me.

As is all else that people refuse to repent from.

BTW I said when I grew up I would pay the dairy bar and grocer for what I took.

I grew up and the stores were gone.

Obviously we all sin but that taints us as persons, it does not taint our common nature.

A good question to ask "sinful nature" believers is: if our common nature is sinful then what does that make Jesus who took on human nature?