A request

[Red Baker]

So then, what is this thread really all about? It seems that the original intent of a limited participation debate did not happen.

Jim come here:

Post in thread 'Starts Now The Deity of Jesus Christ True or False?'

Aug 14, 2025

They wanted to kill Him for the claim He made ... not because they believed Him to be God.

Jesus's self identity led the Pharisees to accuse Him of thinking he had equality with the Father.

Jesus also claimed equality for Himself through accepting the title of Son of God and referencing the great I AM when challenged by the Pharisees.

They didn't think He was God..they thought He was blaspheming.

This you know obviously.. but it does not mean Jesus was not God.

The point is they wanted to kill Him because of His claim to deity.

Is it here on this website where I'm often...

• Peterlag

• 

 

[FreeInChrist]

So then, what is this thread really all about? It seems that the original intent of a limited participation debate did not happen.

It had,

The link is here

This is the link you need to be on.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/starts-now-the-deity-of-jesus-christ-true-or-false.2726/page-4

It opens close to the beginning but they now are on page 4.

And then the viewers that are watching the thread can comment here

Thread 'Member Comments on Current Debates'

Aug 11, 2025

Please post any comments on any ongoing debates here. Our "Current Debate... is The Deity of Jesus Christ True or False?"

• Administrator
• Replies: 215
• Forum: One On One Debates

• 

Which is now on page 3

One has to really hunt around as it is not always listed Under Content subjects or Latest posts

 

[FreeInChrist]

@FreeInChrist

And you always do as my wife does when I tell her, "Honey, be reasonable and do it my way"

Even when you know that your way is counter to mine

 

[Studyman]

I am not defending him. But Red and I have known each other for 12 or 13 years and we have had our fair share of arguing and debating over a varied amount of subjects.

But @Studyman , I have never ready posts to another that were written with such vitriol that you have shown to Red, and also to me, though not so much because for some reason every now and again you show a bit of considerate benevolence.

Until the next reply and it is gang busters hitting below the belt unmercifully.

I am not a predestined believer.

I am not a prophet and I am not a disciple and I was not chosen to carry out any work of God's that I have been made known of other then knowing why I was born.

You obviously feel you have been chosen to carry your beliefs and apply them to anyone who does not agree with you.
Just by saying your Christ or my Christ says you are clueless.

Does bipolar mean anything to you?

2 Cor. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

I think the heart of us humans revealed in these discussions is fascinating. You call me clueless and suggest I am bipolar because I don't agree with the you and Reds beliefs that you obviously felt you had been chosen to apply to me.

While you accuse me of doing the same.

The way you talk to Red, and to me you would think we were down on our knees worshipping Mary saying 27 Our Fathers and 31 Hail Mary's Or is it that you feel we are worshipping Sophia... The Goddess of the Reimaging God that several Protestant
faiths held those conferences?

Matt. 16: 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things "that be of God", but those that be of men.

Nothing from without can defile a man, according to the Jesus "of the Bible". We choose to be offended or not, this choice comes from within, according to the Christ of the Bible. Sometimes it's hard not to feed the "offended flesh", but we can see that Peter could have been offended, and then justified it by saying, "Look how He talked to me"! But HE didn't.

Isn't there a lesson to be learned here?

Perhaps I just take the Word of God to seriously. I mean, the Holy Scriptures were written "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

What's the difference between worshipping Mary, or worshipping an image of God in the likeness of some random, very handsome man, with long flowing hair, who placed impossible Laws on the necks of men who trusted Him, then slaughtered them when they didn't obey?

It's a valid question.

You say....
But as soon as it was shown to you that your judgment against Adam, and God's Judgment against Adam were two completely different Judgments, I became your enemy.

My bit---- is bot with Adam. It is solely with Eve. If you cannot understand that then caome back when you are older.

I can only engage in a discussion with you based on the things you actually say.

"But, I say it was not God's fault at all.... It was her husbands because he was the one with fellowship with God and he is the one who was given the rules. If he was not able to express the importance of just saying no to his wife, that is on him.

Through out the bible we are told that “Wives, are to submit themselves to their husbands husbands"

Here is what I said that rubbed you the wrong way.

Who did God blame for Eve's Sin? Did HE Blame Adam? No, you can read this for yourself. And yet, you are. This is what I mean in my reply, this is what I hope people will consider, as I have come to consider. Who made you question God's Judgment here? Even teach against it? A talking snake? A fallen angel? Or did you, of your own free will, make the judgement according to the dictates of your own flesh?

I mean no offense here. I am caught in this same trap all the time. Paul was too. I don't want to make these judgments, as I'm sure you don't want to either. Nevertheless, you did, and so have I. Listen to what Paul said was the answer for this "body of death".

If the husband instructs the wife, and the wife rejects the instruction, how is this the husbands fault?

And how is this applied to our minds, where the Kingdom of God exists? How does this translate to the "Woman" as God's Church, and the husband, as the Christ? Does this mean then, that if the church rejects the instructions of the Christ, it is the Christ's Fault?

Am I then a reprobate because I ponder on such things and share them with others?

Adam was merely responding to His Wife which of course is most likely the reason God's intention when pacing him in Eden
was because he knew the would be "free will" trouble.

But you won't understand. You cannot understand.

I understand perfectly that Free will without boundaries or limitations, will destroy its kingdom. Even God places boundaries on His Own Free Will. He is a Just God who doesn't lie to His People. No one "Made" Him be a just God, a merciful God. HE chose of His own free will to place these boundaries on Himself, for the good of the Kingdom.

You and I are not wise enough to place our own boundaries, on our own free will. The Adam and Eve story is, in my view, a lesson to us all, to "Choose" the boundaries and limitations "GOD" Placed on us, not the teachings, doctrines or traditions of the "other voices" in the garden God placed us in.

That is the conversation I was hoping to engage in.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

 

[Studyman]

Lets see if you will answer these simple 2 yes or no questions.

If you answer no to question 2 by default that makes you a unitarian no matter how much you deny you are one.

All unitarians affirm the Father is God and deny the Son is God.

1- Is the Father God ? yes or no

I have to be careful knowing the intent of your question. The Jesus "of the bible" taught me this.

Yes, the Father and God of the Lord's Christ, "Jesus' Head", is, according to this Christ "of the bible", the ONE True God.

And His Son Jesus, who was a mortal human, who HE raised from the dead and gave Immortality, is now MY advocate between HIS God, the Father who no man has ever seen, and me. And this because God, His God, gave me and others, even Abraham, to Him for saving.

2- Is Jesus God ? yes or no

A Holy Spirit called "The Christ", a "Spiritual Rock" that existed with His Father, the One True God, before the world was even created, was sent by His Father, the One True God who is also a Holy Spirit, to create all that exists in my world. Christ was sent by HIS God and my God to be my Savior and redeemer. As it is written;

Ps. 110: 1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

And again;

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. (My Lord)

17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

This Christ, this "Spiritual Rock" is the Promised Messiah who became a mortal, flesh and blood human being, offering Himself a sacrifice to God as even Abraham understood.

Gen. 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

 

[FreeInChrist]

2 Cor. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

I think the heart of us humans revealed in these discussions is fascinating. You call me clueless and suggest I am bipolar because I don't agree with the you and Reds beliefs that you obviously felt you had been chosen to apply to me.

While you accuse me of doing the same.




Matt. 16: 23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things "that be of God", but those that be of men.

Nothing from without can defile a man, according to the Jesus "of the Bible". We choose to be offended or not, this choice comes from within, according to the Christ of the Bible. Sometimes it's hard not to feed the "offended flesh", but we can see that Peter could have been offended, and then justified it by saying, "Look how He talked to me"! But HE didn't.

Isn't there a lesson to be learned here?

Perhaps I just take the Word of God to seriously. I mean, the Holy Scriptures were written "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness".

What's the difference between worshipping Mary, or worshipping an image of God in the likeness of some random, very handsome man, with long flowing hair, who placed impossible Laws on the necks of men who trusted Him, then slaughtered them when they didn't obey?

It's a valid question.




I can only engage in a discussion with you based on the things you actually say.



Here is what I said that rubbed you the wrong way.



If the husband instructs the wife, and the wife rejects the instruction, how is this the husbands fault?

And how is this applied to our minds, where the Kingdom of God exists? How does this translate to the "Woman" as God's Church, and the husband, as the Christ? Does this mean then, that if the church rejects the instructions of the Christ, it is the Christ's Fault?

Am I then a reprobate because I ponder on such things and share them with others?



I understand perfectly that Free will without boundaries or limitations, will destroy its kingdom. Even God places boundaries on His Own Free Will. He is a Just God who doesn't lie to His People. No one "Made" Him be a just God, a merciful God. HE chose of His own free will to place these boundaries on Himself, for the good of the Kingdom.

You and I are not wise enough to place our own boundaries, on our own free will. The Adam and Eve story is, in my view, a lesson to us all, to "Choose" the boundaries and limitations "GOD" Placed on us, not the teachings, doctrines or traditions of the "other voices" in the garden God placed us in.

That is the conversation I was hoping to engage in.

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

@Studyman

I am putting you on ignore because you make zero sense.

You have almost a fetish obsession with Adam and Eve. While I am debating Predestination, Free Will , and Forknowledge.

Not to worry, you need not read it... You likely won't find it.

Toodles

 

[civic]

I have to be careful knowing the intent of your question. The Jesus "of the bible" taught me this.

Yes, the Father and God of the Lord's Christ, "Jesus' Head", is, according to this Christ "of the bible", the ONE True God.

And His Son Jesus, who was a mortal human, who HE raised from the dead and gave Immortality, is now MY advocate between HIS God, the Father who no man has ever seen, and me. And this because God, His God, gave me and others, even Abraham, to Him for saving.



A Holy Spirit called "The Christ", a "Spiritual Rock" that existed with His Father, the One True God, before the world was even created, was sent by His Father, the One True God who is also a Holy Spirit, to create all that exists in my world. Christ was sent by HIS God and my God to be my Savior and redeemer. As it is written;

Ps. 110: 1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

And again;

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. (My Lord)

17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

This Christ, this "Spiritual Rock" is the Promised Messiah who became a mortal, flesh and blood human being, offering Himself a sacrifice to God as even Abraham understood.

Gen. 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

A convoluted mess.

Is Jesus God ? Yes or no

 

[Studyman]

A convoluted mess.

Yes Civic, we have established how the actual Scriptures cause problems for your adopted religion, just as they did for the mainstream preachers of Jesus Time.

Is Jesus God ? Yes or no

He is my Savior, sent by HIS God and my God to Save me. He is my Lord, who His God gave me too. He is my Lord who is advocating between His God and my God to this very day. At least, this is what the Bible teaches.

I won't demean Him by accusing or implying that the Christ did the same thing to His God, that Lucifer did.

You are free to promote whatever Jesus you like.

 

[civic]

Yes Civic, we have established how the actual Scriptures cause problems for your adopted religion, just as they did for the mainstream preachers of Jesus Time.



He is my Savior, sent by HIS God and my God to Save me. He is my Lord, who His God gave me too. He is my Lord who is advocating between His God and my God to this very day. At least, this is what the Bible teaches.

I won't demean Him by accusing or implying that the Christ did the same thing to His God, that Lucifer did.

You are free to promote whatever Jesus you like.

So is that your evasive way of saying NO ?

BTW you just confessed you are a Unitarian while denying it earlier. Talk about double talk.

 

[civic]

I have to be careful knowing the intent of your question. The Jesus "of the bible" taught me this.

Yes, the Father and God of the Lord's Christ, "Jesus' Head", is, according to this Christ "of the bible", the ONE True God.

And His Son Jesus, who was a mortal human, who HE raised from the dead and gave Immortality, is now MY advocate between HIS God, the Father who no man has ever seen, and me. And this because God, His God, gave me and others, even Abraham, to Him for saving.



A Holy Spirit called "The Christ", a "Spiritual Rock" that existed with His Father, the One True God, before the world was even created, was sent by His Father, the One True God who is also a Holy Spirit, to create all that exists in my world. Christ was sent by HIS God and my God to be my Savior and redeemer. As it is written;

Ps. 110: 1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

And again;

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. (My Lord)

17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

This Christ, this "Spiritual Rock" is the Promised Messiah who became a mortal, flesh and blood human being, offering Himself a sacrifice to God as even Abraham understood.

Gen. 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

More verses ripped from true context just like you do with John 17:3 the pet verse for all Unitarians who deny the Son.

Psalm 110:1 is Lord God in both cases. Psalm 110:5 uses the same Hebrew word for YHWH as a synonym. Adonai is YHWH.

Next fallacy as the context exposes your false doctrine as a religious unitarian

 

[FreeInChrist]

@civic

Do these comments from above bother you as they do me? Reply 404

What's the difference between worshipping Mary, or worshipping an image of God in the likeness of some random, very handsome man, with long flowing hair, who placed impossible Laws on the necks of men who trusted Him, then slaughtered them when they didn't obey?

It's a valid question.

who placed impossible Laws on the necks of men who trusted Him then slaughtered them when they didn't obey?

 

[Studyman]

So is that your evasive way of saying NO ?

The Jesus "of the bible" didn't do as you and the prince of this world implies.

"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High".

"Another Jesus" may have done this, but not the Jesus "of the bible", according to His Own Words.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he "that is sent" greater than he that sent him."

And again;

John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: "for my Father is greater than I". 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

Sadly, you doesn't appear that you believe in this Jesus Civic. Nevertheless, I do.

BTW you just confessed you are a Unitarian while denying it earlier. Talk about double talk.

Not sure how Believing the Word's of the Jesus "of the Bible" concerning what Eternal life is, that is, that I might know His God, the One True God, "AND" Jesus, the Lord's Christ who His Father sent, makes me a Unitarian. It mike make me a "Bi-itarian" at the very least, but certainly not a unitarian, by very definition.

But I know how precious your religion is to you and if you must engage in the traditions of this world's religious system to place those who don't adopt you religious philosophy, into a judgment box, call me a "Bi-itarian". At least it would represent a more honest representation of my stated beliefs.

 

[civic]

The Jesus "of the bible" didn't do as you and the prince of this world implies.

"For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High".

"Another Jesus" may have done this, but not the Jesus "of the bible", according to His Own Words.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he "that is sent" greater than he that sent him."

And again;

John 14: 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: "for my Father is greater than I". 29 And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

Sadly, you doesn't appear that you believe in this Jesus Civic. Nevertheless, I do.




Not sure how Believing the Word's of the Jesus "of the Bible" concerning what Eternal life is, that is, that I might know His God, the One True God, "AND" Jesus, the Lord's Christ who His Father sent, makes me a Unitarian. It mike make me a "Bi-itarian" at the very least, but certainly not a unitarian, by very definition.

But I know how precious your religion is to you and if you must engage in the traditions of this world's religious system to place those who don't adopt you religious philosophy, into a judgment box, call me a "Bi-itarian". At least it would represent a more honest representation of my stated beliefs.

Since you cannot confess Jesus is God that makes you a Unitarian by default

Next fallacy

 

[praise_yeshua]

So is that your evasive way of saying NO ?

BTW you just confessed you are a Unitarian while denying it earlier. Talk about double talk.

One of the reasons I gave up on him. It is just an argument for the sake of arguing with Him. He has no goals. He isn't going anywhere with anything he says.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Since you cannot confess Jesus is God that makes you a Unitarian by default

Next fallacy

Yep. Rather simple. That is a big umbrella he is under.

 

[civic]

Yep. Rather simple. That is a big umbrella he is under.

Yep

 

[Studyman]

More verses ripped from true context just like you do with John 17:3 the pet verse for all Unitarians who deny the Son.

Psalm 110:1 is Lord God in both cases. Psalm 110:5 uses the same Hebrew word for YHWH as a synonym. Adonai is YHWH.

Next fallacy as the context exposes your false doctrine as a religious unitarian

Actually, for your preaching to be even remotely accurate, I would have to pitch the entire chapter of John 17.


24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, "the world hath not known thee": but I have known thee, and these have known "that thou hast sent me."
26 And I have declared unto them "thy name", and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me "may be in them", and I in them.

And I would have to rip out John 14 as well.

John 14: 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, "I would have told you". I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

To preach that David didn't understand that his Lord and Savior, and my Lord and Savior, was Sent by HIS God is foolishness.

"Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

Who inspired this, if not the Spirit of Christ that was in David?

Heb. 7: 5 So also Christ glorified "not himself" to be made an high priest; but he (God) that said unto him (Christ), Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

7 Who in the days of his (Christ's) flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him (God) that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he (Christ) feared;

8 Though he (Christ) were a Son, "yet learned he obedience" by the things which he suffered;

9 And "being made perfect", (Not Born Perfect, as you and Red preach) he "became" the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

What if the Bible is Right, and the Christ was sent to "Reconcile" men to His Father?

 

[Selah]

A convoluted mess.

Is Jesus God ? Yes or no

Yep. ….a convoluted mess. When does it end?

 

[Studyman]

Since you cannot confess Jesus is God that makes you a Unitarian by default

Next fallacy

You can't engage in an honest discussion about Jesus' Own Words, so you must turn the topic away from His Words, and make up lies about me "not confessing that Jesus is my Lord and Savior".

Romans 10: 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, "and" shalt believe in thine heart that "God hath raised him" from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

You, Red, those Christians in Matt. 7: 22,23, all profess Jesus is Lord. But you don't believe in the God who sent Him, and Raised Him from the dead.

It's all just a game to you. It's more than that to me.

 

[Selah]

Foolish unitarians, if Jesus Christ wasn’t God, He could not have redeemed those who would believe in Him. He could not have resurrected on the third day. He could not be the Savior of the world. Jesus is God.

s e l a h