A Personal Reflection on the Trinity and Salvation

[dwight92070]

I wasn't asking you if you buy it or not. I was telling you how it is.

Here's a little homework assignment for you to prove my point. Find even one reference to God being a they or them and maybe your assertions will have some credibility. Good luck.

Would you accept an "Us" and "Our"? Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7

No, of course you wouldn't because destroys your whole argument.

Next fallacy.

 

[dwight92070]

You're reviling Jesus Christ by turning him into an idol. I am sure he is appalled and will judge you for it. Jesus Christ taught that the only true God is the Father,.

Let's see now. Jesus' own disciples worshiped Him, the two Mary's worshiped Him. Mat.28:9; the blind man worshiped Him John 9:38; the wise men worshiped Him; one of the ten lepers worshiped Him; Thomas worshiped Him; in fact every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea and the four living creatures, and the twenty-four elders and millions upon millions of angels WORSHIPED HIM - and yet you say WE are turning him into an idol!?

What folly! The truth is that YOU are denying Him what is rightfully His - worship and praise, and glory and honor and power and dominion and blessing!!!

 

[Rory Wilson]

You're reviling Jesus Christ by turning him into an idol. I am sure he is appalled and will judge you for it. Jesus Christ taught that the only true God is the Father,.

And Jesus and God are One. "I and the Father are one" is found in John 10:30. This statement by Jesus is a key declaration of his unity with God

 

[civic]

And Jesus and God are One. "I and the Father are one" is found in John 10:30. This statement by Jesus is a key declaration of his unity with God

The Same God, different Persons. This is where both Unitarians and Oneness error.

 

[Rory Wilson]

The Same God, different Persons. This is where both Unitarians and Oneness error.

Right I can see that, Unitarianism and Oneness theology are distinct but both reject the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. Unitarianism typically sees God as one person and Jesus as a human Messiah who was granted divine attributes, but not as a co-equal, co-eternal, distinct person of God.

Oneness theology, a form of modalism, goes further by viewing Jesus as the single person of God who appeared in different "modes" or "roles" as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, an error from a trinitarian perspective because it denies the distinct personhood of the Son.

 

[Runningman]

Would you accept an "Us" and "Our"? Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 11:7

No, of course you wouldn't because destroys your whole argument.

Next fallacy.

God said "Let us make man in our image" but who are the us and our? They are never identified as a trinity. Thereafter, no one said God is a they or them. The "us" wouldn't make sense to be a trinity.

 

[Runningman]

Let's see now. Jesus' own disciples worshiped Him, the two Mary's worshiped Him. Mat.28:9; the blind man worshiped Him John 9:38; the wise men worshiped Him; one of the ten lepers worshiped Him; Thomas worshiped Him; in fact every created thing which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea and the four living creatures, and the twenty-four elders and millions upon millions of angels WORSHIPED HIM - and yet you say WE are turning him into an idol!?

What folly! The truth is that YOU are denying Him what is rightfully His - worship and praise, and glory and honor and power and dominion and blessing!!!

Bowing to someone doesn't suggest idol worship and they weren't worshipping Jesus as God. They were bowing to Jesus because they considered him to be the Son of God and a king.

Here's the way Jesus taught people to worship. Kindly note, he never taught anyone to worship himself or a trinity.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

 

[Runningman]

And Jesus and God are One. "I and the Father are one" is found in John 10:30. This statement by Jesus is a key declaration of his unity with God

God and the disciples are One.

John 17
21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.
22I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—

 

[dwight92070]

I no longer hold to the doctrine of the Trinity. For a time, I believed it was essential—something that had to be accepted without question. But through study, prayer, and reflection, I stepped away from that framework. Too often, I’ve seen division and hostility arise over this doctrine, and I believe such conflict misses the heart of the gospel.


That said, I have deep love and respect for those who affirm the Trinity. My disagreement isn’t a rejection of them—it’s a call to refocus. Because ultimately, salvation doesn’t come through doctrinal precision. It comes through faith in Yeshua, the one whom God has sent.


Jesus said, “This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent” (John 17:3). The emphasis is clear: knowing the Father and believing in the Son is the foundation of eternal life.


Paul echoes this in Romans: “If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved” (Romans 10:9). No creed or theological system can replace that simple, powerful truth.


So while doctrines may vary, and interpretations may differ, let us not forget: it is Yeshua who saves. Not our systems. Not our labels. Just Him.

So if our labels and systems do not save, then why did you even have to tell us your current status regarding the Trinity? Why even bring that up?

 

[dwight92070]

Bowing to someone doesn't suggest idol worship and they weren't worshipping Jesus as God. They were bowing to Jesus because they considered him to be the Son of God and a king.

Poppycock! Then why did Peter tell Cornelius to "Get up", when Cornelius bowed down to him? Peter said, "I too am just a man."
Why did the angel in Revelation tell John, when he was worshiping at the angel's feet, "Do NOT DO THAT ... WORSHIP GOD." Revelation 19:10 and 22:9.

Here's the way Jesus taught people to worship. Kindly note, he never taught anyone to worship himself or a trinity.

He never refused worship, did He? He said, "If these remain silent, even the rocks will cry out.", acknowledging that He WAS WORTHY OF WORSHIP.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

Which is why so many in the New Testament did worship Jesus along with the Father.

 

[Runningman]

Poppycock! Then why did Peter tell Cornelius to "Get up", when Cornelius bowed down to him? Peter said, "I too am just a man."
Why did the angel in Revelation tell John, when he was worshiping at the angel's feet, "Do NOT DO THAT ... WORSHIP GOD." Revelation 19:10 and 22:9.

He never refused worship, did He? He said, "If these remain silent, even the rocks will cry out.", acknowledging that He WAS WORTHY OF WORSHIP.


Which is why so many in the New Testament did worship Jesus along with the Father.

So any time someone in the Bible is worshipped it means they are bowing to God? Abraham bowed to people, Nathan bowed, many bowed. Bowing can be called worship, but it doesn't infer deity. Why did you think they were worshipping Jesus as God? Which verse says that and why do you reject Jesus' explicit teaching about how the true worshippers worship the Father in spirit and truth? Physical bowing isn't spirit and truth worship.

John 4
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”

 

[GallagherM]

Cause of freedom of speech.

 

[GallagherM]

Also you can't keep Jesus commandments....

Lol. you need to every single thing he said.

 

[praise_yeshua]

On earth we can normally try to practice love, justice, mercy, and kindness -- probably stuff I left off too. I have given up walking on water -- too much work.
At all times, Christ is the head and we are the body. It seems to remain true forever that he is the vine and we are the branches. We may end up with body like he showed in resurrection that consisted of flesh and bone but was more real than the walls of a house. Then also Jesus, even after the resurrection, is happy to call us friends and brothers and sisters. That appears to be an invitation or gift to his followers rather than pure equality.
Also, Christ fills all-in-all which is not something I will ever be noted for.

Unitarians always seem to claim to be just like Christ. When I compare myself and everyone I've ever meet, even the apostles......

I see lesser people. I don't think that is bad. Many people do. Whether in rank, power, or long suffering. Christ has no equal.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You're reviling Jesus Christ by turning him into an idol. I am sure he is appalled and will judge you for it. Jesus Christ taught that the only true God is the Father,.

So Christ is your idol?

How do you call Christ Master and not treat Him as an idol as well?

You really haven't given this much thought at all. You just repeat others without doing your own investigation.

 

[Runningman]

So Christ is your idol?

How do you call Christ Master and not treat Him as an idol as well?

You really haven't given this much thought at all. You just repeat others without doing your own investigation.

That's a non sequitur. People can have a master without them being God.

 

[praise_yeshua]

That's a non sequitur. People can have a master without them being God.

They can. So what other Master do you have? You can't serve two masters. You will love one and hate the other.

Did you forget those words? Who said those words?

 

[civic]

They can. So what other Master do you have? You can't serve two masters. You will love one and hate the other.

Did you forget those words? Who said those words?

The Unitarians dilemma

 

[atpollard]

The DEITY of Christ matters (so does His humanity).

John 1:1-5, 14-18 [ESV]

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. ... ​

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 (John bore witness about him, and cried out, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me ranks before me, because he was before me.'") 16 For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God; God the only Son, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known.​

1 John 2:20-25 [ESV]

20 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge. 21 I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he made to us--eternal life.​

2 John 1:7-11 [ESV]

7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch yourselves, so that you may not lose what we have worked for, but may win a full reward. 9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11 for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works.​

 

[Runningman]

They can. So what other Master do you have? You can't serve two masters. You will love one and hate the other.

Did you forget those words? Who said those words?

Jesus is my master without being God. He isn't an idol for me. Sounds like you don't have a point.

Back to the issue. Why do you make Jesus out to be your idol?