Your Views on The Trinity

[Runningman]

The only way Jesus can be at the right hand of the Father and not only the Father's Throne is if the Father's right hand has been amputated away. Unitarians are a bizarre bunch of people.

Right, it starts sounding silly. So the throne Jesus sits on is the throne the Father posseses, but Jesus isn't sitting on God's lap. That is certainly not the message being conveyed. The way to understand it is that Jesus sat at the right hand of God. The writers did their best to make it clear in common language that Jesus isn't sitting on God's throne, but rather next to God on the throne God gave him. It's pretty clear in Psalm 45:6,7 and Hebrews 1:8,9.

That's why I prefer this version better. Makes more sense.

Hebrews 1:8–9 Revised English Bible (REB)
But of the Son he says,
“God is your throne for ever and ever,
and the sceptre of your kingdom is the sceptre of justice.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness above your companions.”

 

[Grace ambassador]

"He [Jesus Christ, The I AM (The Eternally Existing One!) ] submitted in obedience.
No one is qualified to define God"?

Correct, but the 'qualified' are to study and meditate On Scripture, and believe All Of IT!:

Why The Triune GodHead Is Correct!! And:​

FurtherMoreOver, we also find, In All Of Scripture, Excellent Examples of How we should be,
Correct?:

1) The SON Humbled Himself "To Be Sent By The Father" (John 14:26, 15:26 AV)

2) The Holy Spirit Doubly Humbled Himself to "To Be Sent By Both The Father And The SON!"

(John 14:26, 16:7, 13 AV), Because:​

​

"For There Are Three That Bear Record In Heaven, The Father, The Word, ​

And The Holy Ghost: And These Three Are One." (1 John 5:7 AV)​

​

​

Amen.

 

[mikesw]

Right, it starts sounding silly. So the throne Jesus sits on is the throne the Father posseses, but Jesus isn't sitting on God's lap. That is certainly not the message being conveyed. The way to understand it is that Jesus sat at the right hand of God. The writers did their best to make it clear in common language that Jesus isn't sitting on God's throne, but rather next to God on the throne God gave him. It's pretty clear in Psalm 45:6,7 and Hebrews 1:8,9.

That's why I prefer this version better. Makes more sense.

Hebrews 1:8–9 Revised English Bible (REB)
But of the Son he says,
“God is your throne for ever and ever,
and the sceptre of your kingdom is the sceptre of justice.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness above your companions.”

Sure you can find translations that pulverize the meaning of a verse. You found a good example of distortion. Even with this the highlighted part no longer works with the second line. THe first line is taking away the throne from Jesus while the second line is adding it back in. Don't trust deviant translations to create your novel doctrines. Especially in this case, the unitarians have made a special translation similar to JWs effort to mistranslate the scriptures.

 

[FreeInChrist]

None of that requires the Nicene Trinity ..... but neither does it require reducing Jesus to merely a man.

And there you go people ....... that is the Trinitarian view of our Lord and Savior - if he's not God - he's NOTHING. To Unitarians scipture is clear . . . verse after verse says Jesus is a man, compares Jesus to humanity - Jesus even says he is a man. There is no mention of a God-man, no mention of a 'dual nature', no mention of prophecy saying that God was coming to earth as a man ----- all prophecy pointed to Jesus being a human being, a normal, natural human being. NOT a 'MERE MAN' but a man who entered the world through a virgin birth!!!

The virgin birth ... yep. But what makes it not a mere man is how he came into life with out the benefit of sperm.

- that in itself makes him not a 'mere man'. A man who lived his life submitting HIS will to that of his Father's . . . just from experience as a human being I KNOW HOW HARD it is to relinquish my will to that of my parents! Remember being a teen?!?

Yep.. I remember he was 12 years old and wandered away from Mary and Joseph and he was found teaching in the temple....

Was he spanked? Would you have been or just given a time out or grounded.

You know who else is just a man. The man of lawlessness. Do I have to tell you who he is?

YET He did it and if I can understand HIM then HE being my brother can emphasize with me having been in my shoes! He was tempted but never succumbed not because he was God, something none of us could live up to, but because of the power of the Spirit within him ---- He submitted in obedience.

Yep.... and he healed people, and he changed water into wine... not so happily because when Mary told him they were out of wine at the wedding He never even said Mother to her... he called her woman.... and likewise when he was on the cross he said woman here is your son... to the disciple he loved. And he walked on water... and fed all those people, and countless other things.

OH I FORGET... He is just like you so you can do all he did..... Ill remember the next time we run into each other and Ill be sure to bow down to you...

In the meantime... Are you nuts?

 

[FreeInChrist]

Revelation 3:21 doesn't clearly show Jesus is sharing the same throne of God because Jesus told believers to sit down there with him. If that makes them all God, then you have provided a powerful argument against trinitarianism. Now there is no trinity, but rather a pantheon of Gods. Don't go too far with your interpretations. The Bible puts up guardrails to steer you on the right course.

Then how did you get off course?

 

[synergy]

Right, it starts sounding silly. So the throne Jesus sits on is the throne the Father posseses, but Jesus isn't sitting on God's lap. That is certainly not the message being conveyed. The way to understand it is that Jesus sat at the right hand of God. The writers did their best to make it clear in common language that Jesus isn't sitting on God's throne, but rather next to God on the throne God gave him. It's pretty clear in Psalm 45:6,7 and Hebrews 1:8,9.

That's why I prefer this version better. Makes more sense.

Hebrews 1:8–9 Revised English Bible (REB)
But of the Son he says,
“God is your throne for ever and ever,
and the sceptre of your kingdom is the sceptre of justice.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness above your companions.”

You're making your position even more bizarre, or "silly" as you stated. John quoted Jesus as stating that he "sat down with My Father on His throne", not "that Jesus isn't sitting on God's throne". Those are diametrically opposite statements.

Read Rev 3:21 again. The idea of Jesus sitting on the same throne of the Father does work because Jesus explicitly said "just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne".

 

[amazing grace]

The virgin birth ... yep. But what makes it not a mere man is how he came into life with out the benefit of sperm.

Correct - no DNA from an earthly Father! The offspring of the woman - the woman a human being, the Son she bore also a human being.

Yep.. I remember he was 12 years old and wandered away from Mary and Joseph and he was found teaching in the temple....

Was he spanked? Would you have been or just given a time out or grounded.

You know who else is just a man. The man of lawlessness. Do I have to tell you who he is?

The only thing I know is that his parents were upset . . . there's nothing else written so anything else is speculation.

What does the man of lawlessness, the son of perdition, the Antichrist have to do with ANYTHING.

Yep.... and he healed people, and he changed water into wine... not so happily because when Mary told him they were out of wine at the wedding He never even said Mother to her... he called her woman.... and likewise when he was on the cross he said woman here is your son... to the disciple he loved. And he walked on water... and fed all those people, and countless other things.

“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— God did those things through him . . . just as God parted the Red Sea through Moses.

OH I FORGET... He is just like you so you can do all he did..... Ill remember the next time we run into each other and Ill be sure to bow down to you...

In the meantime... Are you nuts?

In saying that he is just like me - it's in relation to his humanity. I can't do all that he did and I didn't say that - I said that He understood us because he has experienced being tempted as we have which is how he empathizes with us having been in our shoes so to speak.

---- Although Jesus did say “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, . . . . Did Jesus lie?

I honestly believe we do not live up TO THE FULL POTENTIAL OF THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT RESIDING IN US . . . We don't walk in the power given us . . . the apostles did . . . And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. Acts 2:42,43

No, I am not nuts. I also didn't deserve that.

 

[FreeInChrist]

Correct - no DNA from an earthly Father! The offspring of the woman - the woman a human being, the Son she bore also a human being.

The only thing I know is that his parents were upset . . . there's nothing else written so anything else is speculation.

What does the man of lawlessness, the son of perdition, the Antichrist have to do with ANYTHING.

“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know— God did those things through him . . . just as God parted the Red Sea through Moses.

In saying that he is just like me - it's in relation to his humanity. I can't do all that he did and I didn't say that - I said that He understood us because he has experienced being tempted as we have which is how he empathizes with us having been in our shoes so to speak.

---- Although Jesus did say “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, . . . . Did Jesus lie?

I honestly believe we do not live up TO THE FULL POTENTIAL OF THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT RESIDING IN US . . . We don't walk in the power given us . . . the apostles did . . . And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. Acts 2:42,43

No, I am not nuts. I also didn't deserve that.

You are making the point that Jesus is a man... period.

I say so is the Antichrist.

And the man Jesus will be in battle with the antichrist

He is more then just a man

 

[Capbook]

Right, it starts sounding silly. So the throne Jesus sits on is the throne the Father posseses, but Jesus isn't sitting on God's lap. That is certainly not the message being conveyed. The way to understand it is that Jesus sat at the right hand of God. The writers did their best to make it clear in common language that Jesus isn't sitting on God's throne, but rather next to God on the throne God gave him. It's pretty clear in Psalm 45:6,7 and Hebrews 1:8,9.

Runningman I believe you missed my Post#3933, in response to your asking.
See below, Jesus sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Father.(Heb 12:2)
As the Father had said "Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool."(Isa 66:1)

Heb 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

That's why I prefer this version better. Makes more sense.

Hebrews 1:8–9 Revised English Bible (REB)
But of the Son he says,
“God is your throne for ever and ever,
and the sceptre of your kingdom is the sceptre of justice.
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness above your companions.”

Unitarians are fond of using paraphrase Bible translations thinking it supports their eisegesis.
But cannot escape as the quoted Bible render verse 9, in support to verse 8 proving the Almighty God the Father still called the Son Jesus "therefore God."
I know Runningman can read the two words "God" there, one in red and one in blue.
And I'm doubtful if Runningman will also interpret it as the "Father anointed Himself."

​

(

 

[Capbook]

Revelation 3:21 doesn't clearly show Jesus is sharing the same throne of God because Jesus told believers to sit down there with him. If that makes them all God, then you have provided a powerful argument against trinitarianism. Now there is no trinity, but rather a pantheon of Gods. Don't go too far with your interpretations. The Bible puts up guardrails to steer you on the right course.

Yes, it will prove that the Father and Jesus are one in the nature of God.(Rom 1:20, Acts 17:9 and Col 2:9)
Here, Runningman, Jesus sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Father.

Heb 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

 

[Runningman]

Sure you can find translations that pulverize the meaning of a verse. You found a good example of distortion. Even with this the highlighted part no longer works with the second line. THe first line is taking away the throne from Jesus while the second line is adding it back in. Don't trust deviant translations to create your novel doctrines. Especially in this case, the unitarians have made a special translation similar to JWs effort to mistranslate the scriptures.

This verse proves Jesus isn't on the throne of God:

The place of honor is not the throne of God, it's near the throne, but not on the throne.

Hebrews 10 AMP
12whereas Christ, having offered the one sacrifice [the all-sufficient sacrifice of Himself] for sins for all time, SAT DOWN [signifying the completion of atonement for sin] AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD [the position of honor],

 

[Runningman]

Then how did you get off course?

I didn't. I am on the right course, but you are off course. You miss many little nuances in scripture, like so many others do, because you aren't searching for the truth, but rather you're searching for whatever you can find that will help what you want to believe. Did you ever find it odd that the trinity is never hinted at in the Bible? I mean, where did people go around consistently referring to God as three persons, ever?

 

[Runningman]

You're making your position even more bizarre, or "silly" as you stated. John quoted Jesus as stating that he "sat down with My Father on His throne", not "that Jesus isn't sitting on God's throne". Those are diametrically opposite statements.

Read Rev 3:21 again. The idea of Jesus sitting on the same throne of the Father does work because Jesus explicitly said "just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne".

So you agree that believers are not God I assume. You have completely lost your case for Jesus being God. Keep those Unitarian verses coming.

 

[Runningman]

Runningman I believe you missed my Post#3933, in response to your asking.
See below, Jesus sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Father.(Heb 12:2)
As the Father had said "Heaven is My throne and the earth is My footstool."(Isa 66:1)

Heb 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Unitarians are fond of using paraphrase Bible translations thinking it supports their eisegesis.
But cannot escape as the quoted Bible render verse 9, in support to verse 8 proving the Almighty God the Father still called the Son Jesus "therefore God."
I know Runningman can read the two words "God" there, one in red and one in blue.
And I'm doubtful if Runningman will also interpret it as the "Father anointed Himself."

​

(

What about it. So are saying Jesus didn't sit at the right hand of God but rather on the same throne as God? You just provided the Scripture that disproves that. What's your point exactly?

 

[Runningman]

Yes, it will prove that the Father and Jesus are one in the nature of God.(Rom 1:20, Acts 17:9 and Col 2:9)
Here, Runningman, Jesus sat down at the right hand of the throne of the Father.

Heb 12:2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Then you must accept that believers are also on in nature of God (Ephesians 3:19, 2 Peter 1:4) so you can't use nature to equate people with God.

I have a feeling you are trying to find ways to distort the meaning of the right hand position in Scripture because you have lost your argument about Jesus sitting on the throne of God.

Sitting at the right hand position of a throne is not a reference to sharing the same throne as someone.

Notice below. King Solomon's mother sat on a throne beside Solomon, at his right hand, not on the king's throne. Solomon's mother isn't the king. Do you want to insist otherwise? So why do you argue a different interpretation for Jesus?

1 Kings 2
19So Bathsheba went to King Solomon to speak to him for Adonijah. The king stood up to greet her, bowed to her, and sat down on his throne. Then the king had a throne brought for his mother, who sat down at his right hand.

Jesus exalted to the right hand of God as Prince, not as King:

Acts 5
31God exalted Him to His right hand as Prince and Savior, in order to grant repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.

 

[synergy]

So you agree that believers are not God I assume. You have completely lost your case for Jesus being God. Keep those Unitarian verses coming.

Only a unitarian would make such an uninformed argument. There are a zillion reasons why Jesus is God and we're not. Start with John's Prologue, Jesus' proclamations that he is "I AM", his omnipresence amongst wherever 2 or more are gathered in his name, and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on....

 

[civic]

So you agree that believers are not God I assume. You have completely lost your case for Jesus being God. Keep those Unitarian verses coming.

lol where is Jesus ever called a believer ?

next strawman.

keep those trinitarian comments coming that prove you are wrong

 

[civic]

Only a unitarian would make such an uninformed argument. There are a zillion reasons why Jesus is God and we're not. Start with John's Prologue, Jesus' proclamations that he is "I AM", his omnipresence amongst wherever 2 or more are gathered in his name, and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on....

its like a mantra that goes off in the mind which keeps circulating/percolating:

Jesus is not God, Jesus is not God, Jesus is not God

So since this is in the forefront of their mind 24/7 when reading and discussing the bible this is their mantra that is the immediate response. Since the bias of Jesus cannot be God is their false premise anything or anyone in the bible that called Jesus God or alludes to Him being God is immediately dismissed. They cannot see the forest through the trees. Therefor they have given up the biblical witness and testimony concerning Christ from God the Father, the Holy Spirit, the Son, scripture, OT prophets, John the baptist, those He healed, His disciples and the Apostles. Its a war/battle against Christ that cannot be won.

In the end as Paul teaches they will stand before Him one day confessing Jesus is Lord/God/YHWH as every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I didn't. I am on the right course, but you are off course. You miss many little nuances in scripture, like so many others do, because you aren't searching for the truth, but rather you're searching for whatever you can find that will help what you want to believe. Did you ever find it odd that the trinity is never hinted at in the Bible? I mean, where did people go around consistently referring to God as three persons, ever?

Why did Jesus say to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

When , once He was on the scene they were baptizing in His name.

Why did He change it?

You ask this.... "I mean, where did people go around consistently referring to God as three persons, ever?"

For the past 70 plus years or so Pittsburgh PA. Not NYC or LA big but not a small town.... I have only heard those saying they were Christians to believe in the truth of the Trinity. It has only been on this forum that it has been questioned. Of course another forum banned any discussion until the past 6 months or so but it is a pretty universal belief...

Heck... I have a close Jewish friend just north of Miami who is NOT messianic... but I made the comment to him that I knew he did not believe in Jesus... and his comment to me was "I believe in Jesus. He may even be God" So He has a more Christian belief then you do.

 

[civic]

Why did Jesus say to baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?

When , once He was on the scene they were baptizing in His name.

Why did He change it?

You ask this.... "I mean, where did people go around consistently referring to God as three persons, ever?"

For the past 70 plus years or so Pittsburgh PA. Not NYC or LA big but not a small town.... I have only heard those saying they were Christians to believe in the truth of the Trinity. It has only been on this forum that it has been questioned. Of course another forum banned any discussion until the past 6 months or so but it is a pretty universal belief...

Heck... I have a close Jewish friend just north of Miami who is NOT messianic... but I made the comment to him that I knew he did not believe in Jesus... and his comment to me was "I believe in Jesus. He may even be God" So He has a more Christian belief then you do.

At least he is smart enough to admit his deity is a possibility