Really? You are cracking up just because you do not like what the Greek shares?
Your Views on The Trinity
- Thread starter Cyrus
- Start date
Which do you prefer to believe Peterlag, from Bible "original wordings" or not?
Really hard to adopt the truth from "textual critics" Bibles that restores Bible text to its original wordings Peterlag??
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Runningman
Active Member
Believers don't reign on the throne of God. That's not what it's about.
synergy
Active Member
Believers don't reign on the Throne of the Father. They will reign with Jesus on Jesus' Throne. That's what it's about for Believers. Read Rev 3:21 more carefully.
Rev 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
Runningman
Active Member
Neither does Jesus. He is said to be sitting at the right hand of the throne of God at least a couple dozen times.
How many throne are you counting here?
"My throne"
"His throne"
If Jesus' throne is the Father's throne then believers are sitting with the Father on His throne. Doesn't work.
synergy
Active Member
He sure does sit on the Father's Throne. Read Rev 3:21. Jesus said, "I ... sat down with My Father on His Throne".
Rev 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His Throne.
That proves Jesus is God.
Runningman
Active Member
How many throne are you counting here?
"My throne"
"His throne"
If Jesus' throne is the Father's throne then believers are sitting with the Father on His throne. Doesn't work.
synergy
Active Member
Listen, Rev 3:21 is not going away anytime soon. Either you believe the Bible or you don't. Do you believe Rev 3:21 as it is written where Jesus said, "I ... sat down with My Father on His Throne", yes or no?
That's only if Jesus' Throne and the Father's Throne are one and the same. You have not proven that.
It doesn't work for unitarians because they're heretics. You're correct about that.
Anyways, Jesus sitting on the Father's Throne proves that he is God.
Yes, Runningman, we have to learn to what is written, believers can sit at the Father's throne but always bear in mind it is not ours.
synergy
Active Member
Rev 3:21 reveals that Believers sit only on Jesus' Throne, not on the Father's Throne.
Rev 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His Throne.
Runningman
Active Member
Well, you can't have your cake and eat it too. If the throne of the Father is the throne of Jesus then all of the believers are right there with them. Revelation 3:21 is a reference to sitting on the throne that the Father gave to Jesus and the believers are sitting on the throne that Jesus gave to them.
How many throne do you believe are there synergy?
Honestly, I don't know why the "throne" mention here is singular.
Rev 22:3 There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;
Yes, but who owns the throne Runningman?
synergy
Active Member
Revelation 3:21 explicitly distinguishes between two Thrones: Jesus’ own throne (“My throne”), which is the Messianic/Davidic throne which pertains to His Kingdom, and the Father’s throne (“His throne”), the eternal sovereign throne of God on which Jesus now sits because the Father exalted Him (Heb 1:3; Eph 1:20). Scripture never says that believers will sit on or reign from the Father’s throne; instead, every promise is always that believers will reign with Christ (2 Tim 2:12), sit on their own thrones (Luke 22:30; Rev 20:4), or be granted to sit with Jesus on His throne, not the Father’s. Thus Revelation 2–3 speaks of two thrones, but only one (the Throne of Christ) is promised to the saints.
Revelation 22:3 shows that in the eternal state, Father and Son share one divine throne, the same one Jesus sat on in Rev 3:21 after His exaltation. But notice: even here, believers are never said to sit on that throne. Instead, they serve God and the Lamb, reign with Christ (Rev 22:5), and sit on their own thrones elsewhere (Rev 20:4), but never on the singular throne that belongs jointly to the Father and the Lamb.
CC: @Runningman
What verse in Rev 2-3 synergy that the word “two thrones” written?
Synergy I believe we had to learn not to exceed to what is written that we may not become arrogant. (1Cor 4:6)
You just missed the logic in Rev 3:21 synergy.
Understand what Jesus said “sit down with Me on my throne,” if Jesus sit on the Father’s throne, (other throne I believe as you interpret)
Is Jesus sitting with the overcomers?
What then happen to the “with Me” as Jesus n”sit on the other throne (per your understanding) synergy?
Rev 3:21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
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synergy
Active Member
Rev 3:21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
How many Thrones do you infer from that passage?
Also, are you saying that Jesus' Davidic/Messianic Throne and the Father's Eternal Throne are one and the same Throne?
Exactly. So tell us where does the Bible ever say that Believers will reign on the Father's Throne, if that's what you're promoting.
You just missed the logic in Rev 3:21 synergy.
Understand what Jesus said “sit down with Me on my throne,” if Jesus sit on the Father’s throne, (other throne I believe as you interpret)
Is Jesus sitting with the overcomers?
What then happen to the “with Me” as Jesus n”sit on the other throne (per your understanding) synergy?
civic
Active Member
I see its lesson time once again on BAM.
One Throne with 2 on that one throne
Revelation 22:3- There will no longer be any curse. The throne of God and the lamb will be in the city
One Throne with God and the Lamb on it.
Revelation 22:1- Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
Now we see its the Son who Issaih saw sitting on the throne in all His Glory
The Throne in Isaiah worshipping the SON who is YHWH
Isaiah 6:1-7
I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. 2Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. And one called out to another and said,
"Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts,
The whole earth is full of His glory."
4And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. 5Then I said,
"Woe is me, for I am ruined!
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts."
6Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with tongs. 7He touched my mouth with it and said, "Behold, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away and your sin is forgiven."
John 12:41-42
These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him. We see that the Apostle John said that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus in Isaiah 6 for this was the one and only time Isaiah was in the presence of Yahweh.
In Romans 10:9-10, we see that Christians will confess that Jesus is Lord. The context through verse 13 clearly shows that Jesus is the Lord which all men must call on in order to be saved. Paul quotes from Joel 2:32 to make his point.Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved (verse 13). If you read Joel 2:32 one can see that Paul quoted from this verse. When we look at the OT passage salvation comes to those who call on the name of YHWH ie...the Divine name of Israel for God. Paul declares it is Jesus upon whom we must call on in order to be saved.
In Philippians 2:9-11, we read that Jesus has a name that is above every name that at His name every knee should bow and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Paul bases his statements on Isaiah 45:23, where we read (By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before Me every knee will bow; by Me every tongue will swear .In the context this is clearly YHWH speaking of Himself. He is the Lord who says there is no God apart from Me in verse 21.Paul does not hesitate in saying that every knee will bow to Jesus and every tongue will confess Jesus is YHWH.
It is an indisputable fact that Paul said God bestowed the Name “Yahweh” on Jesus because in Philippians 2: 9-11 he was quoting Isaiah 45: 21-24.
This is what Yahweh told Isaiah:
“And there is no other God besides Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none except Me. Turn to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, the Word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance, they will say of Me, ‘Only in Yahweh are righteousness and strength.’ Men will come to Him and all who were angry with Him shall be put to shame.”
Isaiah 43: 11- Yahweh said that He is our only Savior- Even I Am Yahweh and there is no other Savior besides Me. This verse is very clear as to its meaning.
We see that Yahweh is the Name God bestowed on Jesus and it is Yahweh which is the Name that is above every name and it is Yahweh to which every knee will bow. There is no mistaking that Paul declares in his epistles that Jesus is the Yahweh of the Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus is our Lord Yahweh in the New Testament as well as our Savior. These were the specific names that were Gods alone in the Old Testament.
hope this helps !!!
synergy
Active Member
Only an Omnipresent Person can be simultaneously present on both Thrones. That's just another proof amongst a Zillion other proofs that Jesus is God.
Is it written in Rev 3:21 synergy?
Again, we have to learn not to exceed to what is written synergy, so we will not be arrogant explaining what is not there.
Yes, Jesus is God, but He did not say i’ll sit on both thrones.
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