Just same answer in my Post#3720 Peterlag.
Your Views on The Trinity
- Thread starter Cyrus
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Runningman, you did not response to this question, why?
As you oppose what is also written in the Bible as Jesus "sitting" at the right hand of power.
As you interpret Jesus cannot sit "until," He has put all His enemies under His feet.
Can you support with Bible texts of what is Jesus doing before sitting?
Is He;
1. Standing?
2. Walking?
3. etc, as you know?
synergy
Active Member
I already mentioned that Job 9:33 proves it. Why are you so afraid to address it? Where is that Arian intelligence and critical thinking that you gloat so much about? All I see is you running away from Bible verses. Running away from Biblical verses is not a sign of intelligence nor critical thinking, no matter how much you think it is
You went outside of 2 Tim 2:5 by mentioning Matt 16:16 but you're not willing to go to Job 9:33? What's the matter? Do you not have it in your Bible? Just because you ripped that verse out of your Bible does not mean it does not exist.
By the way, Matt 16:16 does not support Arianism because Jesus has dozens of titles, not just that one. He is the tabernacled Word (John 1:14) who was God (John 1:1c). Since God can never cease to be God then Jesus is clearly God. Let's see how Arian intelligence and critical thinking can slither yourself out of that dilemma you put yourself into.
synergy
Active Member
The only thing you officially proved, with your disregarding of how the word "until" was understood in Biblical times, is that Michal had children after she died, since 2 Samuel 6:23 says, “Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death.” Carry on with your Arian purely fictional beliefs.
It's super easy if you always run away from Bible verses, such as Job 9:33. When will you stop being the Running Away Man and start addressing Bible verses such as Job 9:33?
101G
Active Member
GINOLJC, to all.
ANOTHER ERROR on your part. ...... UNDERSTAND there is ONE "LORD" and one "Lord", and ... NOT MANY.
ONE "LORD", Deuteronomy 4:35 "Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him." ............. One more, Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:"
ONE "Lord", 2 Corinthians 6:17 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you," 2 Corinthians 6:18 "And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."
WHO IS THE "Lord" ALMIGHTY? ANSWER. THE "Lord" Jesus speaking. John 13:13 "Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am." ONE MORE, the "Lord" Jesus speaking, Luke 6:46 "And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?"
now Pete, point out to us who is called "Lord" and that's the capital "L" in Lord, beside the Lord Jesus. book chapter and verse please.
and again, Back to 101G question. is the Lord in Hebrews 1:10 the same LORD, one person, in Zechariah 12:1 who laid the foundation of the earth. a simple YES or NO please.
P.S. I hope you use the term "lord" in Genesis 18:12 "Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?" ..... (smile)
101G
Active Member
Again, NO, the Word is a "HE". a person.
not a, but THE DIVINE PERSON, YES, Listen carefully, 1 Corinthians 1:23 "But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;" 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God."
did the "it" become flesh? John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
well Pete your "IT" is a "HE"...... (smile). can you tell us who was dwelling among us? if you canno, lets see what the bible say about HIM your "IT". next verse, John 1:15 "John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me."
your reply ......
101G.
Runningman
Active Member
I think you missed it. We know that the Father is the one who is carrying Jesus back to earth because I have already shown you that Jesus was carried to heaven and return the same way he left. So if he was carried to heaven and he returns the same way he left then how does he return? If he isn't carried back to earth then he isn't returning the same way he left. Make sense? With Jesus having no idea when he is coming back, who do you support the one is who will bring Jesus back?
Matthew 24
36No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
1 Thess 4
14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
Runningman
Active Member
Yes, it's a temporary position at the right hand of God. Let's focus on that word "until" and what it means? Do you not believe what words mean?
Until heós means until (of time and place) -- even (until, unto), (as) far (as), how long, (un-)til(-l), (hither-, un-, up) to, while(-s). This is about a temporary position in time. Jesus will be at the right hand of God, up to a point, until he won't be. Starting to see clearly why Jesus isn't God according to the Bible? Scripture teaches he is not.
Hebrews 1
13Yet to which of the angels did God ever say:
“Sit at My right hand until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet”?
Runningman
Active Member
Thayer's Greek lexicon debunks your opinion. Until refers to a temporary place in time. Jesus is literally temporarily at the right hand of God. Why do you always take on impossible-to-win debates instead of just agreeing with the Bible?
1. the temporal terminus ad quem, till, until (Latindonee,usquedum); as in the best writings a. with an preterite indicative, where something is spoken of which continued up to a certain time: Matthew 2:9 (ἕως ... ἔστη (ἐστάθη L T Tr WH)); (1 Macc. 10:50; Wis. 10:14, etc.).
source: https://biblehub.com/greek/2193.htm
Peterlag
Active Member
Your understanding is like a child. There is one God who is often called the Lord in the Old Testament. That does not mean God is the only one who is referred to as a Lord.
The Greek word for Lord is kurios and is a masculine title of respect and nobility, which is why we see many others besides God and Jesus being called the “Lord."
- Property owners are called the "Lord" (Matthew 20:8) kurios is “owner” in the NIV.
- Heads of households are called the "Lord" (Mark 13:35) kurios is "owner."
- Slave owners were called the "Lord" (Matthew 10:24) kurios is "master."
- Husbands were called the "Lord" (1 Peter 3:6) kurios is "master" in the NIV.
- A son called his father the "Lord" (Matthew 21:30) kurios is "sir."
- The Roman Emperor was called the "Lord" (Acts 25:26) kurios is "His Majesty."
- Roman authorities were called the "Lord" (Matthew 27:63) kurios is "sir."
Peterlag
Active Member
Job was written before Jesus was born.
Peterlag
Active Member
Like I said before. In this life we look for what is. Not for what is not. I have noticed intelligent and informed input on the subject of debating the Trinity comes from the unitarian camp. It seems low intelligence, ignorance, and an incapacity for critical thought are prerequisites for membership in trinitarian circles.
synergy
Active Member
And? You just made yourself a prime candidate to receive the Captain Obvious Award.
synergy
Active Member
It "continued up to a certain time" but it doesn't say anything about what happens afterwards. Does it suspend itself, does it increase, does it decrease, does it change, does it phase in, does it phase out, etc...???? What happens? You're assuming things beyond its definition.
In fact, the Bible's usage of the word "until" debunks all your assumptions. The only thing you officially proved, with your disregarding of how the word "until" was understood in Biblical times, is that Michal had children after she died, since 2 Samuel 6:23 says, “Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child until the day of her death.” Carry on with your Arian purely fictional beliefs.
Runningman
Active Member
Paul tells you exactly what happens after Jesus is done at the right hand of God. His reign there will end and he will be eternally subject to God along with everyone else.
1 Corinthians 15
24Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For “God has put everything under His feet.” Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. 28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all.
Peterlag
Active Member
They crack me up when I show them stuff like this and they respond with I have already been proven wrong.
Runningman
Active Member
Scripture conflicts with their beliefs and their beliefs seem to be more important to them than what the Scripture says. So they look for ways to argue around everything, explain it all away, deny everything, but I find peace in the fact they can't change the Bible. They can make new Bible versions, retranslate words, but they ultimately can't change anything anymore.
well. maybe you all can start to make convincing arguments against what the Bible reveals.
Runningman
Active Member
I don't see quoting straight Scripture explicitly stating Jesus has a temporary reign with ultimately being made subject to God as an argument. What I see is you are saying you are not convinced by Scripture.
That is the problem. You don't see.
If you could find a good argument for your view and convince capable scholars and theologians, you might have a bit of basis to accept your new, novel, gnostic belief. No one on his own should be pushing his private doctrines on people when they are so contrary to sound teaching.
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