praise_yeshua
Active Member
How. Please elaborate. I have only one master. Only one. I report to Him. You want to go around Him.
You have repeatedly admitted that you have many masters. You can't please them all....
Your Views on The Trinity
- Thread starter Cyrus
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How. Please elaborate. I have only one master. Only one. I report to Him. You want to go around Him.
You have repeatedly admitted that you have many masters. You can't please them all....
FreeInChrist
Active Member
charismaticlady
Active Member
I don't know that anyone is Unitarian. I only judge their knowledge of Scripture. I don't read every post anyone makes. Besides, Unitarian isn't the only false denomination. That is why I left all denominations and only follow the Holy Spirit's teachings to me, personally.
Runningman
Active Member
You said "I don't care if you call someone your master. They're not actually your master. You do what you want to do. You can bow to them all you want. Doesn't make it real at all."
And Jesus said "Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but do not do what I say?" Which means you're a faker because contrary to you giving lip service and saying "Jesus is Lord and Master" you don't actually follow any of his teachings. Let's see, you have a fake god that Jesus never said to worship, Jesus never said to worship or pray to him, but I am sure you do all of that. You are deceived.
@FreeInChrist
I agree in their divine nature as God.
This is my testimony that I believe from the witness of God Himself. Later I will address your other post in depth.
Peterlag
Active Member
The Non-trinitarian apostle Paul was very clear and succinct in his...
acknowledgment and description of WHO God is because he KNEW WHO the real true God is in one sentence! If the Trinity God existed Paul would have said "there's one God the Triune God or Trinity God" but he didn't because there isn't!In sharp contrast, the desperate Trinitarians can't even find the definition of their God in one verse in the entire Bible as there's no explicit description of their polytheistic Triune God found anywhere except in Creeds and Councils. I trust the apostle Paul over all Trinitarians.
I guess Paul did not work out his theology properly when he showed the divinity of Christ as the reason a mediator could not function in the promise between him and the Father because they are One. We see this underlying what Paul says via Gal 3:16,19-20. Hmm. I guess some people do not only reject Jesus but they reject Paul too.
Peterlag
Active Member
Alright what part of Galatians don't you understand? I will help you.
I will start with Galatians 3:20. Yes a mediator involves two, not one. God is one and we are one. Two parties a mediator works with. Understand?
20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
I do not want you to help me become ignorant of the meaning, as if you could instead have something helpful.
My question was, do the Father's testimony still true from 1John 5:11 to 1John 5:20?
Jesus will come the second time, to give reward to everyone according to what they have done. He is the "Alpha and Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Thus, Jesus is God, the first and the last in Rev 1:17, & 22:13, and the Alpha and Omega in Rev 22:13.
Jonh 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.
Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Rev 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."
Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
Rev 22:16 "I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star."
Runningman
Active Member
That doesn't mesh with Scripture. The First and Last died and received eternal life. For this reason alone, several commentators conclude that "First and Last" isn't a title that refers to deity. Simply because if it is an exclusive divine title, then God died. That's a no no in Christianity because Scripture states God is immortal, meaning that He cannot ever die, even one time, unlike Jesus who did die and was resurrected to eternal life. "First and Last" is a title referring to category and not even something that is exclusive to God or Jesus any way; it is also used of many others.
Revelation 1
17When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man. But He placed His right hand on me and said, “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last, 18the Living One. I was dead, and behold, now I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of Death and of Hades.
Matthew 19
30But many who are first will be last, and the last will be first.
Now if you want to use titles alone to prop up your belief of Jesus being God, are you prepared to account for the nearly two dozen titles Jesus doesn't share with God?
Good day Red Baker, correct me if I'm wrong reading your belief on various responses. If the Word is the God the Father, therefore Jesus is not the Word. And Jesus was not a person until He was conceived and born. I just would like to know what is your take with what Daniel saw. Who do your interpret the "Ancient of Days" refer to? And Who do you interpret the "Son of Man" refer to?
Are they two person or just one person?
Dan 7:9 "I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire.
Dan 7:13 "I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him.
Dan 7:14 "And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.
Runningman, you just made God the Father died by stating "the First and the Last" died.
And you just made the Father not God by stating "First and Last" isn't a title that refers to deity." A direct opposition to the Father words in Isaiah 41:4.
Both highlighted above.
Isa 41:4 “Who has performed and accomplished it, Summoning the generations from the beginning? ‘I, the LORD, am the first, and with the last. I am He.’”
@FreeInChrist
There is no such teaching as the first, second, and third person of the Godhead~There is only ONE SPIRIT of the eternal Godhead, not three separate spirits. They are three separate persons of the Godhead working in the redemption of God's elect. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, these three are one, since we shall only see one God in that day, JESUS CHRIST ~ since the Spirit lives in eternity that no angels or man can ever approach unto, only Son who was with his Father in his bosom from everlasting, he alone can declare him. You said:
”
He was with the Father as far as being ONE with Him in His eternal Deity as God blessed over all. Jesus was the God of Genesis 1:1 as the Word of God! They were ONE as far as what consist of real Divinity of the Most High God?
The following attributes have ever been conceived as essential to it: Self-existence, Infinity, Independence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, Omnipresence, Immutability, eternal both ways, and Infinite in every way possible that is imaginable to the human mind. Deny any of these attribute concerning our Lord Jesus Christ, then one has rejected God's testimony concerning the Godhead. To do so is antichrist.
The scriptures do not tell us that the Word was Jesus, you are assuming that to be so. God was manifest in the flesh in the person of his only begotten Son, by the Word joining Himself to the tabernacle of Jesus Christ. Jesus was indeed the express image of God in the flesh, since he was in the bosom of the Father from eternity.
There is no such teaching as the first, second, and third person of the Godhead~There is only ONE SPIRIT of the eternal Godhead, not three separate spirits. They are three separate persons of the Godhead working in the redemption of God's elect. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, these three are one, since we shall only see one God in that day, JESUS CHRIST ~ since the Spirit lives in eternity that no angels or man can ever approach unto, only Son who was with his Father in his bosom from everlasting, he alone can declare him. You said:
Only in his humanity is Jesus separate from His Father, yet still equal to God in his eternal deity as the Word!
1st John 1:1
“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us”He was with the Father as far as being ONE with Him in His eternal Deity as God blessed over all. Jesus was the God of Genesis 1:1 as the Word of God! They were ONE as far as what consist of real Divinity of the Most High God?
The following attributes have ever been conceived as essential to it: Self-existence, Infinity, Independence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, Omnipresence, Immutability, eternal both ways, and Infinite in every way possible that is imaginable to the human mind. Deny any of these attribute concerning our Lord Jesus Christ, then one has rejected God's testimony concerning the Godhead. To do so is antichrist.
I'm sure it is to you and your Catholic source of information from the Nicene Creed. We will never use Creeds written by men to support our understanding.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
If the Word did not take on the flesh and blood of Jesus, who then was the flesh that dwelt among us? What happened to the Word? Given that the Word became flesh, did the Word cease to exist? Did the Word change from being God to something less than God, a mere human being?
One way of attempting to understand how God can be three and one is to seek analogies, parallel examples of ways in which something is three and yet also one. Christians have drawn these analogies or illustrations from a variety of realms, but especially from the physical universe.
Most of us are familiar with many of these. The Trinity is like water, which can exist in solid, liquid, or vaporous form. The Trinity is sometimes compared to an egg, which includes the shell, yoke, and white.
Sometimes it is compared to a object made up of parts, such as a pair of scissors or a pair of pants. All of these, of course, have some defects. Either they make the persons of the Trinity seem like parts or pieces of the Godhead, or they analogize the Trinity to something that is in different forms at different times or under different conditions, but not truly simultaneously.
To think we will ever fully understand the Trinity is to make the mistake of thinking God is fully understandable.
God is infinite. He is beyond us. Trying to “fully understand” God is like a 2-year-old trying to “fully understand” the complexities of relationships, marriage, and parenting!
Believe it or not, the fact that God is too immense for our finite minds should be comforting, not discouraging!
Most of us are familiar with many of these. The Trinity is like water, which can exist in solid, liquid, or vaporous form. The Trinity is sometimes compared to an egg, which includes the shell, yoke, and white.
Sometimes it is compared to a object made up of parts, such as a pair of scissors or a pair of pants. All of these, of course, have some defects. Either they make the persons of the Trinity seem like parts or pieces of the Godhead, or they analogize the Trinity to something that is in different forms at different times or under different conditions, but not truly simultaneously.
To think we will ever fully understand the Trinity is to make the mistake of thinking God is fully understandable.
God is infinite. He is beyond us. Trying to “fully understand” God is like a 2-year-old trying to “fully understand” the complexities of relationships, marriage, and parenting!
Believe it or not, the fact that God is too immense for our finite minds should be comforting, not discouraging!
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Tell me what your senses tell you. You sense more than words convey. There is more here than just what can be written in the languages of mankind.
I tell you what I sense about you. You want others to realize their position in Jesus Christ to the point of being like Him. That is an entirely different position than what is being presented by others. You do see some things that you agree with in that context but Satan has always mixed the Truth with lies. Truth doesn't bother Satan nor his sons when it they can used by them to deceive others.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Perhaps you would believe Paul if he had said he would explain it all in his books in the bible? DUH
Paul repeatedly speaks of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit together as the one God, and he does it in ways that show all three are divine Persons. Here are the clearest examples:
| Verse | Exact Words (ESV or close) | What It Proves |
|---|---|---|
| 1 Corinthians 8:6 | “yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.” | Father = God, Jesus = Lord (Yahweh title) and Co-Creator with the Father. |
| 2 Corinthians 13:14 | “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God [the Father] and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.” | The famous Trinitarian benediction — all three named together on the same level. |
| Ephesians 4:4–6 | “There is one body and one Spirit … one hope … one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.” | Spirit → Lord (Jesus) → God and Father — all three in one sentence as the source of Christian unity. |
| 1 Corinthians 12:4–6 | “Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; … varieties of service, but the same Lord [Jesus]; … varieties of activities, but it is the same God [the Father] who empowers them all…” | Same structure three times: Spirit, Lord (Jesus), God (Father) — all equally divine and active. |
| Romans 15:30 | “I appeal to you… by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me.” | Jesus, Spirit, and God invoked together in prayer. |
| Galatians 4:6 | “Because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, ‘Abba! Father!’” | Spirit of the Son sent by the Father — all three in one salvation act. |
Bottom Line
Paul never uses the later word “Trinity,” but he constantly speaks of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit together as the one God who creates, saves, empowers, and receives worship. No first-century Jew would put a mere creature on the same level as the Father and the Spirit — yet Paul does it again and again.So yes — Paul absolutely taught the three Persons of the Godhead, and he did it decades before the Gospel of John was written.
civic
Active Member
Amen
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