Peterlag
Active Member
The more closer to the Original Manuscripts would not have what your Original Greek has since "only begotten God" does not fit with the rest of the Bible.
Your Views on The Trinity
- Thread starter Cyrus
- Start date
Peterlag
Active Member
If God came down as a man the prophecy would be that he came down as a man. This is not Rocket Science.
A misinterpretation, no one comes to the Father except through Jesus. You have to go through Jesus not what Jesus have.
Can you say, "I am the way, the truth and the life" like what you state and implied as "have the same thing as Jesus?"(highlighted blue above)
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me.
Duh. Instead. He came as a baby. Prophecy went that direction. You will have to read some of the prophecy and the NT to see what God did. Don't disappoint me with such confusion you are suffering.
I should add that God did say he would come among the people of Israel.
That's the hard fact Arians faced relying heavily to paraphrase Bible translations product from translators thoughts not from original languages, only opinion without presenting evidence.
Peterlag
Active Member
Well, there's no way I can be wrong because Jesus is not God. So it would not make any sense to say only begotten God.
Peterlag
Active Member
If God came down as a man there would be no Scripture saying He came as a baby. Are you okay?
Maybe you are trying to be silly here. There are passages of God coming in judgment and what we have seen is God incarnate as Jesus to fulfill these. Not sure what else you need.
Edited: Of course Jesus being God within the Godhead is seen here rather than the Father being the Son. Modalism has been staunchly rejected as a valid concept of God.
Last edited:
No, Mary is not God.
Why did you divert from
Yes, you are of the same form as and equal to your father.
Peterlag
Active Member
Did not divert. Same subject. Is Jesus from the same form as and equal to his mother.
Jesus indeed inherits qualities and genes of his mother. He also has divinity but he had that before incarnation. He still has the divine essence with the Father.
I have given you Bible text that Jesus is the "only begotten God" but you have not presented even a single verse that says "Jesus is not God." (I bolded and colored red above) Again, just an Arian opinion.
@Peterlag @amazing grace @Runningman
I do understand that this is spoken to civil magistrates, so called, because of their authority and power; and because they do, in some sort, represent the divine majesty, in the government of nations and kingdoms.
Mary was indeed highly favored of God in being chosen to be the mother of Jesus, so in some degree we owe her honour due to her chaste character of being chosen just as we would honour the kings and rulers (gods) of this world.
Nevertheless, Mary was not begotten of God as her Son was, so he had the authority over her that we do not have over our earthly parents.
I do understand that this is spoken to civil magistrates, so called, because of their authority and power; and because they do, in some sort, represent the divine majesty, in the government of nations and kingdoms.
Mary was indeed highly favored of God in being chosen to be the mother of Jesus, so in some degree we owe her honour due to her chaste character of being chosen just as we would honour the kings and rulers (gods) of this world.
Nevertheless, Mary was not begotten of God as her Son was, so he had the authority over her that we do not have over our earthly parents.
John 2:4
“Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.”Oneness Delusion
Is “Jesus” the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost?
Is the Trinity doctrine valid scripturally, or a Roman Catholic heresy? Is God’s name “Jesus Christ”? Is Jesus Christ the Son of God sitting at the right Hand of God the Father, or is He the Father? Who are the Oneness Pentecostals that deny the Trinity and baptize in “Jesus name” only? Does God exist in 3 separate divine Persons, or in 3 modes based on the ancient heresy of “modalism”? Should we trust men’s wisdom or God’s Word when understanding the doctrine of the 3 in 1 Godhead? This simple lesson will expose the modern day Trinity rejecter’s heresy led by the United Pentecostal Church (UPC) using the infallible Word of God!Oneness Pentecostals are often referred to as the “Jesus Only” movement and had their origins in the heretical Pentecostal denomination formed after the devilish Azusa Street Revival in the early 1900s in Los Angeles. Their disagreement over the doctrine of the Trinity and baptism lead to a split from the Pentecostals in 1914, when Robert T. McAlister, a Canadian preacher, became obsessed with Acts 2:38 and rejected the Trinity, while creating the “Jesus name only” baptism, which lead his group to form a separate movement from the Assemblies of God, re-baptizing and renaming themselves as the Oneness movement, or better known as “Jesus Only” movement, and the United Pentecostal Church (UPC).
This simple study will expose their heresy in detail. The doctrine of the Trinity is one of the fundamental truths of the apostolic religion of our Lord Jesus Christ, and failure to understand and embrace it only proves them to be among the many “antichrists” that have arrived in this world (1 John 2:18-19).
- Old Testament truth was only revealed obscurely. From the beginning of creation, God had revealed Himself in plural Persons (Gen 1:26-27, Gen 3:22, Gen 11:7).
- God did not cooperate with His angels in creation. The word “us” used in Gen 1:26, 3:22, and 11:7 cannot be angels or anything else, for angels were created to serve God and minister to His saints, not to join Him in creation (Heb 1:7, 14, Psalms 104:4).
- God revealed His name through Moses, David, and Isaiah. God revealed His name to Moses first in the Old Testament (Exo 3:14, 6:3) and His name is “JEHOVAH.” David and Isaiah also revealed the same name through inspiration of the Holy Ghost as they wrote down the scriptures (Psalms 83:18, Isa 12:2, 26:4). Nowhere in the O.T. is the name of God revealed as “Jesus.”
- Isaiah heard the Plurality of the Divine Persons of the Godhead. Revealed to him in a vision, Isaiah saw and heard the Lord’s plural Divinity when being asked if he would go and warn the rebellious nation of Israel (Isa 6:8). If the Oneness doctrine is true, why did God use “us” instead of “Me” when testing Isaiah’s desire to do His will?
- God’s angel chose the name for the Son of God. The name “JESUS” was given to the Son of Mary and Joseph, through His miraculous conception of the Holy Ghost, at the command of the angel Gabriel (Mat 1:21, Luke 1:31). From where did the Oneness Movement get their idea that the name of God was ‘JESUS’ when the O.T. clearly revealed God’s name as “JEHOVAH” and the Son of Mary was to be named “JESUS.”
- Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. John opens his gospel revealing the Word was God and with God being together from the beginning of creation (John 1:1-2, 1 John 5:7). Only through incarnation between the Word of God and Mary’s womb was there a living human body created for God to dwell in, named Jesus (John 1:14, Luke 1:35).
- John revealed the Godhead Persons through divine inspiration. The trinity is clearly revealed as three Persons in one Godhead: Father, Word, and the Holy Ghost (1 John 5:7). Only in the fullness of time about 2000 years ago (Gal 4:4) did the Word of God join with human flesh that resulted in the only begotten Son of God (John 1:14,18).
- Divine wisdom cannot be understood by trusting man’s opinion or human wisdom. We understand the Godhead to be 1+1+1=1 (1 John 5:7). We base our understanding of heavenly things through faith by the Spirit of God (1 Cor 2:6-11). Using science, critical thinking, or rationalizing with human wisdom will only bring blindness from God, as God hasd clearly declared the wisdom of the world to be foolish in His sight (1 Cor 1:19-21, 1 Tim 6:20)!
- Jesus never claimed He was the “Father.” Jesus never once claimed that He was the Father, as He always maintained in His preaching that He came from the Father and was going back to His Father (John 5:37, 6:38, 6:44, John 14:12-13).
- Jesus never claimed He was the “Father.” Even their favourite verse of John 14:9, Jesus only stated whoever had seen Him had seen the Father. He never claimed to be the Father! Jesus Christ reflected the image of God the Father, but He was never the Father, nor did He claim to be (Col 1:15, 2 Cor 4:4, Heb 1:3). Why did the Lord Jesus Christ give so many statements that He came from the Father, and was going back to the Father, rather than just plainly state He was the Father (John 5:38, 6:44, 3:16, 3:36, 5:20-30, 36-37, John 15-17)?
- Jesus Christ reigns at God’s right hand. The scripture is very plain where Jesus Christ is right now. The Oneness folks have corrupted the word of God (2 Cor 2:17, Rom 16:17-18) by rejecting the Son of God, hallucinating that Jesus is the Father while swapping roles in heaven and denying His existence at the right Hand of God the Father (Psa 2:7-9, Psalms 110:1-2, Heb 1:3, 8:1, 10:12, 12:2, Mark 16:19, Eph 1:20, Acts 2:33, Rom 8:34, 1 Peter 3:22, Col 3:1).
- Paul revealed all three Persons live inside each believer. The Spirit of God (Holy Spirit), Jesus Christ (the Son), and the One who raised up Jesus Christ from the dead (Father) dwells in us (Rom 8:9-11). Why did Paul use such distinctive revelation to describe the Holy Spirit inside of us? Simple. Paul knew that God was triune.
- Paul revealed the Son is subject to the Father. Why would Paul clearly reveal to the church that the Son is subject to the Father, if Jesus was the Father? It would be clear that He would not be under His own or any other Being’s authority (1 Cor 15:27-28).
- Peter and Paul revealed the Trinity works together in a believer’s salvation. The Father’s will and choices, His Son’s blood and obedience, and the Spirit’s sanctification saves a person, as revealed by Peter & Paul (1 Peter 1:2, Eph 1:3-14). Why did they not say that the Father alone became the Son and became the Holy Spirit to save a person, if the Oneness doctrine was true?
- Every epistle of the N.T. opens with a clear distinguishing evidence between God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. A quick glance in all the opening verses in the epistles will see God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ clearly separated to show their individuality and relationship (Rom 1:7, Gal 1:1, Phil 1:2, Col 1:2, 1 Cor 1:9, Eph 1:2-3, 2 Thes 2:16, 2 Tim 1:2, Heb 1:1-2, 1 John 1:2-3, 1 John 2:1, 1 John 3:23, 1 John 4:15, 1 John 5:11).
- John debunked Trinity rejecters by clearly distinguishing between God the Father and Jesus Christ. John made it very clear to the church in his first epistle about antichrists and false teachers leaving the church to corrupt the doctrine of Christ (1 John 2:18-20, 2 John 1: 7-11). He made it plain that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of the Father, and not the Father (2 John 1:3). He had surely foreseen Trinity rejecters creeping into the church with oneness heresy (2 John 1:9-10, 2 Peter 2:1-3, Jude 1:3-4, 2 Cor 2:17).
- Oneness theory is the ancient heresy of “Sabellianism” reintroduced back into the church. Sabellius (215 A.D), a theologian who taught in Rome early in the Second century, revealed and brought in the heresy that the “Father, Son and Holy Ghost” operate in three modes instead of three Persons. He was excommunicated as a heretic in 220 A.D.
- Oneness theory is the ancient heresy of “Sabellianism” reintroduced back into the church. This false teaching of Sabellius was revived as “Sabellianism” or “modalistic Monarchianism.” This heresy died just over a hundred years later. It was not heard of until the birth of the UPC in the 20th
- Oneness Pentecostals just revived a rejected dead heresy of ancient times. For more than one hundred years hardly any Christians held to this heretical teaching of Sabellius that God exists in three modes. It was not until the early 1900’s, when the Pentecostal movement began after the Azusa Street Revival, that the heretical teaching of Sabellius was re-introduced into the church, causing a split and another cult for the 20th century, called the United Pentecostal Church (UPC).
- Paul warned false teachers would bring in another Jesus into the church to deceive Christians. False teachers do not teach by God’s revealed Word in the Bible. They corrupt God’s Word for personal gain (2 Cor 11:4, Isa 8:20, 2 Tim 3:16-17, 2 Pet 2:1-3). Oneness theology has proven this by teaching another Jesus (Father not Son), another gospel (three modes not divine Persons), and another Spirit (by going against the inspired scriptures of the Holy Ghost).
- Paul warned wisdom of the world is foolishness unto God. Oneness heretics try to explain the Godhead by applying our human rational mind, that one God cannot be in three persons, or else it would result in three gods instead of one. But Paul mocked human tradition, wisdom, and philosophies as foolishness in the sight of God (1 Cor 1:19-21, Col 2:8). Spiritual things are not to be understood by man’s wisdom, but by faith (1 Cor 2:6-14, Hab 2:4).
- Peter warned the church that false teachers would bring in damnable heresies causing many to go astray. Oneness doctrine originates from Sabellius’s ancient heresy, and was used by the Oneness Movement to lead people astray after their false teachings, in order to gain a following after them and their false beliefs. Peter warned judgement will be severe on those that bring heresies into the church (2 Peter 2:1-3).
- Paul told the Galatians that any doctrine different from the apostolic doctrine was to be accursed. In defence of the gospel of Jesus Christ, Paul warned that any other gospel that contradicted what he and the apostles taught was to be accursed. Why such a harsh word used here, if heresies could be taken lightly? Because Paul never treated truth and revelation lightly.
- Paul warned of perilous times when effeminate teachers would lead Christians, especially silly women, astray with their false doctrines. Oneness Pentecostals fulfil the prophecy as their ancient heresy has led many astray through their teachers creeping into houses to win silly women. They confound the Bible’s definition of the Godhead and cause Christians to be led astray into believing and embracing error (2 Tim 3:6-7, 2 Tim 4:3-4).
Only the humanity
This is in relation to God
Philippians 2:6–7 (UASV) — 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.
Peterlag
Active Member
It does not say Jesus emptied himself of his Godhood. I know you want it to say that, but it does not say that.
Peterlag
Active Member
I don't think you are addressing my question. Mary must be God too if Jesus is God because he took on the form of his parents. I believe that's what you are saying.
Peterlag
Active Member
It would make no sense for the Scriptures to say what Jesus is not. Nobody back then ever thought that Jesus was anything other than a man.
It is not something I want to say.
And You ignore the point
Philippians 2:6–7 (UASV) — 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.
He existed in the form of God
Peterlag
Active Member
I never ignore Philippians 2. I have posted the following many times. It falls on deaf ears...
There's nothing in the book of Philippians that says Jesus emptied himself of his Godhood. Nothing. I hate when someone twists scripture to fit a Triune God narrative or to twist to testify that Jesus is God - I hate lies.
1 John 2:22-23
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father:
What did Jesus empty himself from?
What the Scriptures say he was... the son of God, the Messiah to Israel, thus, royal blood. He humbled himself from what he was and took on the role of a servant.
After saying that Christ was in the form of God, Philippians 2:6 goes on to say that Christ “considered being equal with God not something to be grasped at.” If Jesus were God, then it would make no sense at all to say that he did not “grasp” at equality with God because no one grasps at equality with himself. Some Trinitarians say, “Well, he was not grasping for equality with the Father.” That is not what the verse says. It says Christ did not grasp at equality with God, which makes the verse nonsense if he were God.
The Greek word morphē does not refer to the essential nature of Christ in that context. If the point of the verse is to say that Jesus is God, then why not just say that? If Jesus is God, say that, don’t say he has the “essential nature of God.” Of course God has the “essential nature” of God, so why would anyone make that point? This verse does not say “Jesus being God” but rather “being in the form of God.” Paul is reminding the Philippians that Jesus represented the Father in every possible way.
From the Septuagint and their other writings, the Jews were familiar with morphē referring to the outward appearance, including the form of men and idols. To the Greeks, it also referred to the outward appearance, including the changing outward appearance of their gods and the form of statues. The only other New Testament use of morphē outside Philippians is in Mark, and there it refers to the outward appearance. Also, the words related to morphē clearly refer to an outward manifestation or appearance. The word morphē refers to an outward appearance or manifestation. Jesus Christ was in the outward appearance of God, so much so that he said, “He who has seen me has seen the Father.” Christ always did the Father’s will, and perfectly represented his Father in every way.
Similar threads
