https://interestingliterature.com/2021/09/bible-story-balaams-***-summary-analysis/
Yes, Calvinists—free will IS in the Bible.
- Thread starter Diserner
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e v e
Well-known member
occasionalism - a satanic philosophy and determinism well exemplified in Leibniz; a version of greek fate and causality
libertarian free will - a political early modern philosophy
ancient greek conception of the concept of free will - does not exist !
ancient greek conception of an individual soul - does not exist !
ancient greek fate - a concept subservient to the greek theory of substance, causality, gods
ancient greek conception of substance - entirely pagan conception encapsulating the view of satanic type causality ; the method of exegesis corresponding to this view is Aristotelian logic, itself subservient to the causality of those 'gods'
medieval version of substance - relies on Greek version
medieval version of free will - based on greek fate
causality - deterministic, evolving, expanding system and cosmology of the gods, and their platonic solids
libertarian free will - a political early modern philosophy
ancient greek conception of the concept of free will - does not exist !
ancient greek conception of an individual soul - does not exist !
ancient greek fate - a concept subservient to the greek theory of substance, causality, gods
ancient greek conception of substance - entirely pagan conception encapsulating the view of satanic type causality ; the method of exegesis corresponding to this view is Aristotelian logic, itself subservient to the causality of those 'gods'
medieval version of substance - relies on Greek version
medieval version of free will - based on greek fate
causality - deterministic, evolving, expanding system and cosmology of the gods, and their platonic solids
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e v e
Well-known member
what is libertarian free will.
let's talk about a greek soul:
it's strong. needs nothing or no one.
it is aristotelian first cause, prime mover, nous.
it is an oversoul or 'reason' - the god of reason
the daemon of wisdom.
there is no individual soul for the greeks, only the hive mind which is the One of plato, of Aristotelian substance and the one of the manichaeans.
only a deity has a will. a human has their fate set by the evil gods aka fallen angels or satanic entities. a human has no free will in this classical view.
Only in scripture does the idea of sons and daughters appear who are free . But the context of that is in paradise before the fall and before becoming slave to satan.
the greeks knew nothing of God or His Word! In the classical greek version a human could make wrong choices and be punished by the gods. that is the max free choice augustine proposed too , accepted by many since - to choose among presented goods, higher or lower ones. higher ones had reality = Aristotelian substance, thus divine substance because based on platonic forms.
in his book on free will Augustine explicitly states that nous, mind, platonic forms, wisdom (pagan theological concepts) are synonymous to God.
aristotles prime mover is platonic substance --- not God.
libertarian free will arises in Descartes (proto form) and Kant, both alchemist occultists, both Augustinian. And newton!
Free will all the snake esau philosophers conclude, involves a god. Not a human. not a soul... only a Greek soul = a deity.
it's actually below us to have libertarian free will as it's a pathetic substitute, sub par, bait and switch for what being free really means in Christ.
and yes all the fallen angels were jealous of us and now peddle their libertarian free will as if it was a great thing. Lol.
These concepts do not overlay onto christianity. Different roots, different coloring and meanings.
let's talk about a greek soul:
it's strong. needs nothing or no one.
it is aristotelian first cause, prime mover, nous.
it is an oversoul or 'reason' - the god of reason
the daemon of wisdom.
there is no individual soul for the greeks, only the hive mind which is the One of plato, of Aristotelian substance and the one of the manichaeans.
only a deity has a will. a human has their fate set by the evil gods aka fallen angels or satanic entities. a human has no free will in this classical view.
Only in scripture does the idea of sons and daughters appear who are free . But the context of that is in paradise before the fall and before becoming slave to satan.
the greeks knew nothing of God or His Word! In the classical greek version a human could make wrong choices and be punished by the gods. that is the max free choice augustine proposed too , accepted by many since - to choose among presented goods, higher or lower ones. higher ones had reality = Aristotelian substance, thus divine substance because based on platonic forms.
in his book on free will Augustine explicitly states that nous, mind, platonic forms, wisdom (pagan theological concepts) are synonymous to God.
aristotles prime mover is platonic substance --- not God.
libertarian free will arises in Descartes (proto form) and Kant, both alchemist occultists, both Augustinian. And newton!
Free will all the snake esau philosophers conclude, involves a god. Not a human. not a soul... only a Greek soul = a deity.
it's actually below us to have libertarian free will as it's a pathetic substitute, sub par, bait and switch for what being free really means in Christ.
and yes all the fallen angels were jealous of us and now peddle their libertarian free will as if it was a great thing. Lol.
These concepts do not overlay onto christianity. Different roots, different coloring and meanings.
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Rockson
Well-known member
Sorry but that's fantasy and fiction you've got there. You might consider letting it go. You whole concept of what spiritual death is, is off the rails. Being in darkness or being in spiritual bondage does not mean one can't want freedom. An alcoholic might want freedom but doesn't have the power to achieve it. God imparts his transforming recreation power but no indication that men don't want it. Peace.
civic
Well-known member
The spiritually dead misnomer taught by Calvinists.
Adam who was “spiritually “dead hid from God in the garden and was able to communicate with God and understand Him. In the day you eat you shall surely die. So adam sinned and was spiritually dead and yet could communicate with God and understand God. “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” (Genesis 3:10)
Luke 16:27-31 -“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ ‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”
Above we see that Jesus declared the physical dead and spiritual dead can respond to spiritual things. The dead spiritual/physical dead man is pleading for his own brother’s life.
Jesus declares in John 5:25, “An hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.” Here Jesus says the spiritually dead can and will hear him In Mark 2:17 Jesus said, “"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." The sick/spiritually dead can hear and understand Jesus- the sinner who is dead in their sins can understand. In Romans 1 we read of the spiritually dead that they can perceive God and that Gods handiwork is self-evident to them and that the things of God are clearly seen by them so that they are without excuse.
Romans 1:20- For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.”
Rockson
Well-known member
Yeah I remember one time on a different web site I was talking about verses like this. Sadly some of them sought to dance around what they clearly reveal that indeed the spiritual dead CAN hear and understand the Spirit. No offence to some of them but the broom they use to sweep things under the rug must get wore out. We should have a rule on this site...No brooms allowed. If one brings one in they should be told to leave it at the door. Not good to have one trip over some bump in the rug.
atpollard
Well-known member
And He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree from which I commanded you not to eat?"
The man said, "The woman whom You gave to be with me, she gave me some of the fruit of the tree, and I ate."
- (Genesis 3:11-12)
- Yes, Adam was able to communicate: he immediately blamed GOD for his sin! [TOTAL DEPRAVITY = WILL NOT repent].
Please stop HATING on my beliefs (you are not offering honest correction, just blind hatred of what the Doctrines of Grace teach). Our beliefs ARE found in scripture, even if you choose to interpret those scriptures differently.
civic
Well-known member
Or making excuses for sin and blame shifting .
civic
Well-known member
Or a broom emojiYeah I remember one time on a different web site I was talking about verses like this. Sadly some of them sought to dance around what they clearly reveal that indeed the spiritual dead CAN hear and understand the Spirit. No offence to some of them but the broom they use to sweep things under the rug must get wore out. We should have a rule on this site...No brooms allowed. If one brings one in they should be told to leave it at the door. Not good to have one trip over some bump in the rug.
civic
Well-known member
We can all see when I called your bluff and set up the debate you ran away and disappeared. That speak volumes.
BTW- I had asked the administrator to leave all your posts unedited so everyone can read them and see who is making the false accusations and the motives behind joining the forum. It was not for honest debate but for slander. That comes from the evil one, not Jesus. Christian’s are to speak well of all men. And forgive those who have sinned against them . And not to return evil for evil. But to pray for them, forgive them, do well to them.
hope this helps !!!
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One of the ideas that we're trying to implement is to have everything done above board and out in the open not through private messages. If you see the bump in the rug, if it's in plain sight you are less likely to trip over it. What it is... is what it is. Keep it in plain sight and deal with it Is what we're shooting for.Yeah I remember one time on a different web site I was talking about verses like this. Sadly some of them sought to dance around what they clearly reveal that indeed the spiritual dead CAN hear and understand the Spirit. No offence to some of them but the broom they use to sweep things under the rug must get wore out. We should have a rule on this site...No brooms allowed. If one brings one in they should be told to leave it at the door. Not good to have one trip over some bump in the rug.
Arial
Active member
My post said nothing about spiritual death. The subject was our will being in bondage to sin. Rom 6
5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 We know that our old self[a] was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7 For one who has died has been set free[b] from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,[c] you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19 I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
e v e
Well-known member
libertarianism as well as determinism as well as free will are early modern satanic philosophies...
in the situation before the fall we were free
and now we are not.
the only real context of a choice
is to turn to Him to
rescue us who are His ones
and we will be free finally,
with Him in paradise.
that is a choice
that satan constantly tries to interfere with,
like when he spoke to eve , tricking her with did God really say that? just like a serial killer tricking añ innocent child into his car with candy.
adam left her alone
allowing that to happen
and is to blame for that evil
and for disobeying God
and for all the horrific evil crimes he (adam)
has committed since.
the lucifer chapter is about Adam.
in the situation before the fall we were free
and now we are not.
the only real context of a choice
is to turn to Him to
rescue us who are His ones
and we will be free finally,
with Him in paradise.
that is a choice
that satan constantly tries to interfere with,
like when he spoke to eve , tricking her with did God really say that? just like a serial killer tricking añ innocent child into his car with candy.
adam left her alone
allowing that to happen
and is to blame for that evil
and for disobeying God
and for all the horrific evil crimes he (adam)
has committed since.
the lucifer chapter is about Adam.
e v e
Well-known member
the enslavement is this body.
the first bolded bit doesn't help,
since, being helpless and in a sinful fleshbody
(not of our choice! and not of Him!)
it is all down hill ....
we are helpless to an evil (false) deity
and, being helpless,
our only free choice is to return to God
....and those who are his children will hear Him
it is a choice... and sadly many refuse to listen to Him.
even accepting Christ we are still prisoners here
until He returns and rescues us..
so that evangelical idea of totally saved is wrong
... we are in a body that IS sin, this fleshbody
and all its needs and wants
is sin. this earth is the prison.
We will be rescued when all of us
who are His meet Him on the clouds....
I plead Him its very soon.
e v e
Well-known member
she was adams responsibility and adam
is responsible.
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