MTMattie
Active Member
No he did not and you have been shown, but refuse to believe.
Arminian perspective on Gods Sovereignty and mans free will
- Thread starter civic
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civic
Active Member
Ditto
brightfame52
Active Member
He said no man can come to Him. Jn 6:44,65
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes He did, plain and simple Jn 6:44,65
MTMattie
Active Member
Can you tell us what YOU think believe means?
John 6:44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
John 6:65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”
51 words in these 2 scriptures.
Which of these words is believe?
You see @brightfame52 ... The Father can draw whoever He wants but these scriptures DO NOT SAY they have to believe on Jesus.
Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
This is where you see the word believe. It is what you are told to do.....
The following are verses from the bible about no believing in Jesus.... NOTE: yours is not there..... nor is the suggestion that man cannot but the words that man choses ( free will) not to
Not Believing In Jesus
Source: https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Not-Believing-In-Jesus
Matthew 17:17
And Jesus answered and said, “You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him here to Me.”
Mark 9:19
And He *answered them and *said, “O unbelieving generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him to Me!”
Luke 9:41
And Jesus answered and said, “You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you and put up with you? Bring your son here.”
Matthew 6:30
But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, will He not much more clothe you? You of little faith!
Matthew 8:26
He *said to them, “Why are you afraid, you men of little faith?” Then He got up and rebuked the winds and the sea, and it became perfectly calm.
Matthew 14:31
Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and took hold of him, and *said to him, “You of little faith, why did you doubt?”
Matthew 16:8
But Jesus, aware of this, said, “You men of little faith, why do you discuss among yourselves that you have no bread?
Luke 12:28
But if God so clothes the grass in the field, which is alive today and tomorrow is thrown into the furnace, how much more will He clothe you? You men of little faith!
Matthew 17:20
And He *said to them, “Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.
Mark 4:40
And He said to them, “Why are you afraid? Do you still have no faith?”
Luke 8:25
And He said to them, “Where is your faith?” They were fearful and amazed, saying to one another, “Who then is this, that He commands even the winds and the water, and they obey Him?”
Matthew 13:58
And He did not do many miracles there because of their unbelief.
Mark 6:6
And He wondered at their unbelief.And He was going around the villages teaching.
John 12:37
But though He had performed so many signs before them, yet they were not believing in Him.
John 7:5
For not even His brothers were believing in Him.
John 7:48
No one of the rulers or Pharisees has believed in Him, has he?
John 6:64
But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.
John 16:9
concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;
Mark 9:24
Immediately the boy’s father cried out and said, “I do believe; help my unbelief.”
John 3:18
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
John 3:32
What He has seen and heard, of that He testifies; and no one receives His testimony.
John 8:46
Which one of you convicts Me of sin? If I speak truth, why do you not believe Me?
Luke 22:67
“If You are the Christ, tell us.” But He said to them, “If I tell you, you will not believe;
John 10:37
If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me;
John 10:38
but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father.”
John 12:39
For this reason they could not believe, for Isaiah said again,
John 14:10
Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.
John 16:31
Jesus answered them, “Do you now believe?
1 Peter 2:7
This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve,
“The stone which the builders rejected,
This became the very corner stone,”
John 4:48
So Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you simply will not believe.”
John 6:36
But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.
John 5:38
You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.
John 8:45
But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.
Luke 18:8
I tell you that He will bring about justice for them quickly. However, when the Son of Man comes, will He find faith on the earth?”
John 3:12
If I told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
John 5:47
But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”
John 5:44
How can you believe, when you receive glory from one another and you do not seek the glory that is from the one and only God?
brightfame52
Active Member
civic
Active Member
Jests said He draws everyone to Himself in John 12:32
Oops
Next
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Active Member
He said no man can come to Him. Jn 6:44,65
Also, John 6:45 and Romans 10:17 says that the limitations imposed by the likes of @brightfame52 are anti-biblical.
brightfame52
Active Member
Jesus made the statement that limited mans ability by saying this Jn 6:44,65
Now take heed, Jesus also said this Jn 12:47-48
47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Now Jn 6:44,65 are His words not mine
That doesn't change John 6:45 and Romans 10:17 which says that you are wrong.
brightfame52
Active Member
MTMattie
Active Member
I asked you about one word and qwhat you think it means.
You repeat the same old scripture that does not even contain that word.
How about believe = faith?
Where is faith in your Jn 6:44?
Not in that scripture .... no sir. I oppose it because it is not there.
But John 6:47 says.......Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.
So Jesus told those who did not believe that they could believe and their reward....
brightfame52
Active Member
Jesus says men dont have the ability to believe in Him, Jn 6:44,65. The word come is another way of saying believe, I have told you that a few times already, and gave the scripture proof that collaborates that.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
and you were wrong then, and are still wrong.
God draws people to himself.. He is not willing any should perish.
it is also his will that all who see AND BELIEVE will not perish but have everlasting life.
You can not promote one aspect of his will. and deny the other
brightfame52
Active Member
No Im not wrong, Jesus is correct Jn 6:44-65
MTMattie
Active Member
No. another way to say believe is faith.
Come is not.
What you are saying Jesus is saying that even though they have no faith/belief... God will still draw those that he predestined.
That is a certainty that you are of that Calvin predestined mindset that one does not have to believe for God to call them.
“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
I was raised on Without faith it is impossible to please Him. (God)....
Jesus did not say that in this verse.... and you along with other predestined believers understand God can call you up whenever
he wants to, even before you have believing faith......
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
Thats all that is needed to make a point, He said man doesnt have the ability to come to Him, Jn 6:44-56 I haven't ignored anything, I accept every verse that has been shown to me, yet I notice not one of them stated that man has the ability to believe in Jesus. In fact it takes the ability, power of God to do so.
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