charismaticlady
Active Member
Don't you believe that practicing righteousness is keeping the commandments written on our conscience? We can't do those to become saved, but after salvation that is how we abide in Christ and He in us. 1 John 3:24.
"Works Salvation"
- Thread starter Seabass
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Azriel
Active Member
Sure. We do good works because we are saved no to become saved. We become clean from the inside out, Salvation is what I'm talking about. We're a new creation we're born again the old man, That slave to sin and death, He's history. we are slaves to righteousness now,
Slaves to righteousness is a metaphoric expression used by Paul to explain the subject of holiness to the Roman Christians. It means that those who believe in Jesus are freed from slavery to sin and the law, and are instead bound to obedience and righteousness. This leads to life and fulfillment, as they are connected to Christ and partake of His divine nature
Slaves to righteousness is a metaphoric expression used by Paul to explain the subject of holiness to the Roman Christians. It means that those who believe in Jesus are freed from slavery to sin and the law, and are instead bound to obedience and righteousness. This leads to life and fulfillment, as they are connected to Christ and partake of His divine nature
Seabass
Active Member
Lk 17:7ff
"But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do."
Obedience earns nothing.
A lesson on obedience:
The servant was working in the Master's field all day, but when it came time to eat, the servant's obedience did not earn him a place at the table, he did not deserve a 'thank you' but he was told to fix the Master's supper. Even after the servant obeyed all commanded him he was still unprofitable.
The servant could not boast about his obedience for he was only doing what was his duty to do for there is no merit in doing what you are supposed to do. No one's obedience will be sinlessly perfect deserving merit nor can anyone do more than what is their duty. Hence no boasting can be made of one's obedience for God owes no one for doing a good job. Therefore salvation is still a matter of grace.
Frank Russell
Active Member
Works salvation = DIY salvation."Works salvation" is a term that gets thown around a lot on forums as this one.
1) What is "works salvation"? How does one define "works salvation" according to the Bible?
2) What is an example from the Bible of "works salvation"?
3) Was Noah's work in building the ark "to the saving of his house" (Heb 11:7) a "works salvation"?
Why is salvation by works the predominantly held viewpoint? | GotQuestions.org
Why is salvation by works the predominantly held viewpoint? Why do so many people believe that we can be saved by works?www.gotquestions.org
Is the above link correct in saying that "works salvation" is man trying to control his own eternal destiny? Is it true that man has no control, no role at all in his own eternal destiny? Did Noah have no control, no role at all in the saving of his house?
The act of this is blasphemous since it appoints the individual's ego as God - and since enough is never enough to the ego, salvation never comes.
Seabass
Active Member
So Noah saved himself by himself by building the ark....God had nothing to do with Noah's salvation??
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
One DOESN'T, because "Works salvation" (man doing enough "good things to merit Heaven when they die) is TOTALLY OPPOSED to any "Salvation" found in the Bible.
Salvation - AN eternity in HEAVEN when you die physically after a Cleansing from SIN as you live and the indwelling Holy Spirit to guide you as you live physically - ONLY comes by FAITH (gifted by God) in the perfect SIN OFFERING OF JESUS on the cross (ISA 53:10 Eph 2:8,9)
There ARE NO EXAMPLES of what has never existed.
Seabass
Active Member
I have never argued nor have I seen anyone on this forum claim one can do "good works" and merit salvation. This issue is about OBEDIENCE to God, not good works.
An atheist can do many good works but those good works cannot save him or merit him salvation. It takes obedience to Christ (Heb 5:9; Lk 6:46) to save the atheist. Therefore the issue is obedience does not, cannot merit salvation. That's why there is no example in the BIble of one whose obedience to God is called a work of merit for obedience and works of merit are two completely different things. Those who claim no works at all are needed in order to be saved are reading the Bible thru their faith only glasses and trying to conform the Bible to fit their faith only bias.
Noah was saved by his obedient work in building the ark, so there is one example. Note that his obedient work earned/merited him nothing, it was God's grace that saved him but receiving God's grace requires he be obedient in building the ark as God commanded.
No obedient work = receive no grace = die rebellious nad unrighteous in the flood with all of the wicked and be lost.
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Frank Russell
Active Member
This is a great example of a poorly constructed strawman served with a clumsy flamboule
Rapture Bound
Active Member
Does anyone here know how to edit their posts? ... I'm still trying to figure this one out ....sigh
Frank Russell
Active Member
The above correction paints the picture of reality more clearly.
Frank Russell
Active Member
I think you can within 30 minutes. After that, the Edit link no longer appears next to the word "Report"
Rapture Bound
Active Member
So I take it that after 30 minutes there is no way we can edit or delete our posts?
Rapture Bound
Active Member
Where does the edit link appear? - I've never even seen it.
Doug Brents
Active Member
I have been asking people for years to show me that in Scripture, but no one has been able to. Can you please show me where Scripture says that.
Did the Israelites count on marching around Jericho to breach the city for them? Or were they counting on the Lord to do it because of their obedience to His command?
Did Naaman count on dipping in Jordan to cure him? Or was he counting on the Lord to cure him because of his obedience to the man of God's command?
It is not counting on water to save us, but counting on God to keep His word when He says that IF we obey Him in repentance, claiming Him as Lord (confession), and baptism then He will remove our sins and count us as pure as Jesus.
Wrong. Works salvation would be attempting to be good enough, work hard enough at good deeds to deserve His forgiveness. But baptism in not a "good work". Baptism is a surrender to His will, as foolish as it sounds to human logic, trusting that He will do what He said when we obey.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Repentance is not believing. Repentance is not accepting that our old life doesn't work in the new resurrected life.
Repentance is turning from that old life to embrace the new life of following Christ. And that turn is a prerequisite to receiving salvation, because Acts 3:19 says that we must repent in order to receive forgiveness and the blessings of God in Christ.
Azriel
Active Member
Exactly and we do that because we believe the gospel message that we've heard. Before you heard the gospel you didn't believe it. After you hear it you have a choice to believe it or not believe it.
Seabass
Active Member
You posted:
Works salvation = DIY salvation.
Hence was Noah's salvation from the flood DYI...Noah saved himself by himself by his own work in building the ark.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Now we are getting somewhere.
We hear the Gospel, and we choose to either believe it, or not believe it. But we are still unsaved, even when we choose to believe it.
We then must repent of our sins and choose to live for Jesus, as Jesus directs (Acts 3:19), but repentance does not bring about salvation; it is only a step in that direction.
We then must confess Jesus as our Lord (Rom 10:9-10), but confession does not bring about salvation; it is only a step in that direction.
We then must be baptized (Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16). And it is in baptism that the Holy Spirit removes our sins and unites us with Christ (Rom 6:1-4, Col 2:11-14), and thus we are saved.
If we leave any of these steps out, then we have not done what Scripture says leads to salvation. If we say that any of these are unnecessary, then we are making Scripture a lie, and Scripture is NEVER wrong.
Seabass
Active Member
Obedience to God us what saves.
civic
Active Member
There is a little arrow under the post next to the report button. I believe there is a time limit on editing posts. I will tag the @Administrator here so he can explain it for us. I’m not sure if there is a setting that can allow for a longer time to edit a post.
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