charismaticlady
Active Member
No, that's Kenny Rodgers. Mickey wrote the song. Here is one of my favorites if this link works.
"Works Salvation"
- Thread starter Seabass
- Start date
Theophilus
Administrator
Mickey Newbury - Wikipedia
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Red.... I am referring to Mark 16:16 and Mark 16:17.
I started reading Tony Warrens paper . But have barely scratched the surface because within his first part out of his mount came what I have been suspecting so I will finish it, but later. His description of the gifts. I happen to 100% agree with him on Baptism... hence the 3 parts I posted which kind of upset our mutual friend who will never read another word of his...
Anyway, I digress..... I will post what Tony Warren said a little later.....
My reason for even introducing Mark 16:16 and then 17 and 18 it just seemed to me that verses back to back like that would seem to be a natural tie in.
Please read.
Starting with Mark 16: 14 thru Mark 16:18
14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
What is the world is this? DO YOU not see anything inconsistent.
They are told by Jesus to go preach out into the world...They ARE NOT told to baptize... just to say
"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
Jesus sent them out to talk on baptism and to phrase it as if the baptism is needed to be saved if they believe....
But the very next thing talked about is
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
There is something seemoingly inherently wrong here that this verse is tied to the baptism one.
Maybe it is just me.... ???? In all my decades of seeing baptisms I never once witnessed someone who believed and was baptized
exhibit the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Or that they were promise by the Baptizer.
BTW... I know how and why a baptism is to take place. I also know that when Jesus sent them out to baptize, he said to do it in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit where up to that time it was only in his name..... which to me is further proof of the Trinity.. DO NOT GO THERE.
So in my own mind as I am trying to collect the 2 separate ideas into one ... some from the article you provided...
and while I may find another point from him THIS ONE STANDS OUT BECAUSE I SEE THIS ONE AS WHAT I HAVE BEEN THINKING.
These Signs shall follow them which Believe
An exposition of the signs following that are recorded in Mark chapter 16. Have miracles ceased, and if so, how will these signs that are promised, follow them that believe? by Tony Warren
www.mountainretreatorg.net
Understanding the Signs that follow Believers!
by Tony Warren
It is in this context that Christ says in the next verse that 'and these signs shall follow them that believe.' In other words, these are the things which are expected to be seen in believers when they preach the gospel:- Those who believe will cast out devils in In Christ's name
- They will speak with new languages
- They shall take up serpents
- There will be no deadly drink that can hurt them
- They will lay hands on the sick and the sick will recover
Christ tells us that this is what we all should expect to see as a result of one believing and baptized (in the Holy Spirit) as we go into the world with the gospel. These are the signs or 'evidences' of Spiritual regeneration that will be seen through the Christ authored great commission of witnessing.
"BAPTISED" IN THE HOLY SPIRIT"
That is what makes the difference.
@Eternally-Grateful
I will be more than happy to discuss these scriptures with you, an \d see if you would like to be baptized with the Holy Ghost and fire! I do not desire this baptism!
John's baptism and baptism after the death of Christ, may have some limited similarity, but, that have different results, and some for different reasons.
I'll be more than happy to discuss these scriptures in depth.
Mr. Enlightenment please explain this baptism, pretty sure you have no clue as to what it is. This baptism no one should ever desire it, for this baptism will take place in the lake of fire where the wicked shall perish!
I will be more than happy to discuss these scriptures with you, an \d see if you would like to be baptized with the Holy Ghost and fire! I do not desire this baptism!
Really? Please explain what you are are saying.
First, you need to learn how to spell "original", before you try another language. I can take my English Bible and understand perfectly any teaching therein, if God is merciful to me my opening my understanding. That's is where my trust is, not in so-called originals, that no man has ever seen, or will ever see.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
actually, they both are baptisms of repentance..
The baptism of the HS would be like romans 6, 1 cor 12 and gal 5.
The baptism of fire. yes. this is a baptism in a fire never quenched
You better, because if your not baptized with the HS your not saved.. and if you do not get saved, you will be baptized in fire.
Typo, I meant moses.
1 Corinthians 10:2
all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
Thats great,
but again, Baptize is not an English word. so your English bible can not help you
Bob Carabbio
Active Member
We EARN NOTHING!!! Obedience plays a part, but The only "OBEDIENCE" that counts is Isa 53:10 - i.e. FAITH in the perfect SIN OFFERING of Jesus to cleanse from SIN, and be indwelled by the Holy Spirit (which is THE ONLY THING that makes a person a "Christian").
Salvation is BY FAITH plus nothing.
"Works" are the natural RESULT of FAITH, and never the CAUSE of it. Rom 8:28,29 reveals the life process which will cause a REGENERATED person to become progressively conformed to Jesus' IMAGE.
charismaticlady
Active Member
N, look up Mickey Newbury, American Trilogy. That's his most famous record in my book.
Mickey Newbury - Wikipedia
There is no baptism of the Holy Spirit made famous by men like Jimmy Swaggart. If it was, we would read about it the church epistles. Romans 6 is water baptism into the faith/religion of Jesus Christ. Romans 12:13 I will go into this tomorrow, not enough time for me to do so today. I have no clue what you are referring to from Galatians 5. Help me out.
Okay, I understand, I'll look at this tomorrow as well.
Notice I said baptism by the Holy Ghost WITH FIRE,
I want some person explain to me from the word of God where I'm supposed to seek the baptism of the Holy Ghost, where is the scripture? There are NONE! Jimmy Swaggart, the second generation of false prophets from the Pentecostal cult, preached this lie, and deceived millions upon millions and got rich in doing so! And did not have to pay taxes in doing so, per his own cousin Jerry Lee Lewis' testimony.
Well, I'm sorry for you that you believe such a lie! I may go into detail in morning concerning this point that you are trying to make ~the Lord willing.
To believe, to have faith, is a work. It is something that you do.
Last edited:
You can promote your brand of Zwingliism all you want. It doesn't change the truth of scripture.
Yes, there is baptism of the Spirit. Peter described it as the gift of the Holy Spirit. It happens when the repentant believer is baptized.
@Eternally-Grateful, let us look at some of those scriptures that you mentioned yesterday.
1st Corinthians 12:13
“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."We all know that the baptism here is not water baptism, for it is a baptism performed by the Holy Spirit. We also know not every every baptism is a baptism involving water and burial in it (Matthew 3:11).
Since baptism is an immersion, the verse describes the Spirit immersing us into a church. For the context drive this meaning for us if we stay with the context.
Churches lay claim to this verse by asking for it to be done when they receive new members, which is the opposite action we take when excluding a member from our church body. At least they should, if you understood what Paul is saying.
We know the church of God/Christ has binding and loosing authority, which the Spirit applies (Matthew 18:18).
The Holy Spirit immerses, buries, plunges, dips, and otherwise sticks new members into the body until they are grafted onto it and participate in the same Spirit in the body.
The result is not salvation, but being part of a local body of believers, gifts, or anything else, but participation in the local body of the saints. “To drink into one Spirit” is mutual participation in the lively energy of the Holy Spirit. This is a passive work done to members, just like the baptism in the first part of the verse.
The verse before and the verse after define the unifying animation of the Spirit of God. The coordination of members in a church is not by a faithful elders, but by a perfect Spirit. The closer a church gets to Christ and walks in the Spirit, the more benefits they realize.
This scripture is misused, and truly only a few understand what Paul is teaching here, yet if we follow all of the context, before and after 1st Corinthians 12:13 it should be clear as to what Paul is teaching us.
Next I want to look at Romans 6:3-6
brightfame52
Active Member
@Eternally-Grateful
As a young Christian back in the early seventies, and working around many church of Christ followers, these scriptures they used to teach that if one wanted to be IN CHRIST then they must be baptized into him in order to have their sins forgiven, etc. So. I labored for many hours, weeks, months and even a year or two seeking the true meaning of such scriptures, for I desire to be living according to what the word of God taught rather than what I was taught and had come to believe. It did not take me very long to see that I was chosen IN CHRIST (Ephesians 1:4) before the foundation of the world, way before the first man ever taught water baptism put one into Christ! Here is my understanding of Romans 6:3-6.
Paul is definitely teaching on the subject of water baptism without questioning. Beside, there is not one word in the holy scriptures that teaches A Spirit baptism into the body of Christ at regeneration, that is made up by folks would reject water baptism as the means of being in Christ according to to Romans 6:3.
To me it is a simple truth of the scriptures that once a person comes to believe in Jesus Christ and his gospel, then the apostles always commanded them to be baptized, or, to be baptized INTO THE FAITH AND RELIGION OF JESUS CHRIST which they now confess to believe in. We are not baptized into his spiritual body, for we have been part of that body from before the foundation of the world, and were part of that body when Jesus lived and died and was risen! See Ephesians 2:5-7!
If we are honest and not bias in trying to protect our doctrine which we have received, then we must confess that Paul in Romans 6:3-6 is without question speaking of water baptism ~when he used such words as: "were baptized into his death; buried with him by baptism into death; been planted together in the likeness of his death;" etc.
As a young Christian back in the early seventies, and working around many church of Christ followers, these scriptures they used to teach that if one wanted to be IN CHRIST then they must be baptized into him in order to have their sins forgiven, etc. So. I labored for many hours, weeks, months and even a year or two seeking the true meaning of such scriptures, for I desire to be living according to what the word of God taught rather than what I was taught and had come to believe. It did not take me very long to see that I was chosen IN CHRIST (Ephesians 1:4) before the foundation of the world, way before the first man ever taught water baptism put one into Christ! Here is my understanding of Romans 6:3-6.
Paul is definitely teaching on the subject of water baptism without questioning. Beside, there is not one word in the holy scriptures that teaches A Spirit baptism into the body of Christ at regeneration, that is made up by folks would reject water baptism as the means of being in Christ according to to Romans 6:3.
To me it is a simple truth of the scriptures that once a person comes to believe in Jesus Christ and his gospel, then the apostles always commanded them to be baptized, or, to be baptized INTO THE FAITH AND RELIGION OF JESUS CHRIST which they now confess to believe in. We are not baptized into his spiritual body, for we have been part of that body from before the foundation of the world, and were part of that body when Jesus lived and died and was risen! See Ephesians 2:5-7!
@civic @Jim
Please explain this to me from the scriptures and let me see why you believe this to be so. I see what you teach happening in the Acts of the apostles, but, once they died off I do not see anywhere in the churches epistles where this takes place, nor where we should seek for it. The churches were totally silence on this unto 1906 Azusa Street Revival in LA on April 9, 1906, centered on William J. Seymour. This significant event launched the global Pentecostal movement, and the baptism of the Spirit. But, no churches taught this until then...WHY?
FreeInChrist
Active Member
synergy
Active Member
Your goal is to take the human element totally outside of salvation. Why stop there? You might as well take out Jesus' human element side also such as his Incarnation and Cross....
synergy
Active Member
Repenting and believing is indeed an active privileged choice and active honorable work on our part.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
So your calling John the baptist A liar. Got it.
Your also calling paul a liar. when he said we were baptized by the spirit who raised Christ from the dead.
There is no water in Romans 6. the thing we were baptized into was the death of Christ. Only God can do this.
thats where you fail. again, the origional greek word baptizo should be your guide. Not an english word which never existed before. but is a transliteration of that word
Thats not what John said.
He said he will baptize you with the holy spirit and fire..
the fire he said is a fire that shall never be quenched. there is only come fire in scripture that fits this defenition, and that is the fires of hell.
On the last judgment, all who reject christ will be "immersed" or "placed into" the fire.
Your not supposed to seek this baptism. Any more than you are supposed to seek the anointing of the spirit. these two works of God happen the moment one is saved.
Get off this person.. I am not a follower of man.. I pray you are not either. lets get to the word..
Believe a lie? if you think Baptize was an original English word. You have believed the lie
Baptize comes from the greek word Baptizo - they removed the o and replaced with an E and made a new english word.
Baptism comes from the greek baptismo. they removed the O and made a new english word.
I can go on and on. If you would like to study the greek words. i would be more than happy to help you
Similar threads
