"Works Salvation"

Yes it does. It says whosever believes AND is baptized will be saved.
it does not say water.

There is a such thing as Holy SPirit baptism.

And again, In john 3, He did not say this..
No it does not. That is absolutely false. You need to brush up on your grammar. Also the Greek word translated "them" refers to the Greek word translated "nations". The Greek word translated "nations" is ethnos which here refers to the people of the nations. Both baptizing and teaching are adverbial participles modifying the verb "matheteuo" meaning to make disciples. The Greek word "matheteuo" is a verb, not a noun. The Greek word "autos" translated "them" cannot refer back to the verb. The adverbial participles serve as instructions on how to make disciples. That is the grammatical construction in both Greek and English.
lol.

No, You need to study up on the gospel.

Again, Show me baptism or any work in the following passages.

She me baptism in the following verses. In fact. show me works of any type

John 1: 11: 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE <em>13 </em>who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN


Titus 1: 2
in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.
 
Yes it does. It says whosever believes AND is baptized will be saved.

Can you prove elsewhere in Mark 16 that the baptism they are talking about was not with/in the Holy Spirit.....?

Always keep in mind that [The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.]

But if you believe that the baptism is immersion in water in Mark 16:16 , explain Mark 16:17 that follows with."These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

Are verse 16 and 17 talking about two separate events because I never heard anyone teach that after the immersion they "would" speak in tongues. YET, many hand their hat on Mark 16:16 and never mention vs 17 (or even 18)

No it does not. That is absolutely false. You need to brush up on your grammar. Also the Greek word translated "them" refers to the Greek word translated "nations". The Greek word translated "nations" is ethnos which here refers to the people of the nations. Both baptizing and teaching are adverbial participles modifying the verb "matheteuo" meaning to make disciples. The Greek word "matheteuo" is a verb, not a noun. The Greek word "autos" translated "them" cannot refer back to the verb. The adverbial participles serve as instructions on how to make disciples. That is the grammatical construction in both Greek and English.
 
lol

You need to go back to grade school and study up on your grammar. As it is, your study on the gospel is contaminated.
Once again, you totally ignore all the passages I gave you

Dude you gave 2 verses and i at least gave you the courtesy of explaining them

I have given you ten times that amount and you refuse to do anything.

And I am supposed to repent and follow you?? :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
Can you prove elsewhere in Mark 16 that the baptism they are talking about was not with/in the Holy Spirit.....?

Always keep in mind that [The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.]

But if you believe that the baptism is immersion in water in Mark 16:16 , explain Mark 16:17 that follows with."These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

Are verse 16 and 17 talking about two separate events because I never heard anyone teach that after the immersion they "would" speak in tongues. YET, many hand their hat on Mark 16:16 and never mention vs 17 (or even 18)
I think that there is little doubt that baptism in Mark 16, and elsewhere such as Matthew 28:19-20 is talking about water baptism.
I think that was well understood until about the 1500s when Zwingli began to react against the RRC paedobaptism and ended up trying to uncouple any physical water baptism from Christian salvation.

As far as Mark 16:9-20 is concerned, I don't have any strong feelings about its authenticity. I don't thing verse 16 stands in opposition to the rest of the NT at all. As far as verse 17 is concerned, all I can say is that it was true is some selected and limited occasions even if not universally true.
 
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What, biblically, is works salvation?

That is the perfect question. Given the term itself is never used in Scriptures. There really is no "Biblical" salvation without "works". To promote such, is a massive foolishness. I'm glad someone else is finally questioning the philosophy.

There were "many" marvelous "works" that God did to provide the possibility of forgiveness/salvation for me. The Sacrifice of the Christ, and the total commitment that HIS Son exhibited towards His Father, and towards me are "works" that are to great to ignore. These preachers that promote a "no works" salvation completely miss-represent Paul in Eph. 2. These "works" are not "Mans" Work, that "man should boast", they are God's Work. When Christ says "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish", this is a "work" GOD requires for Salvation, not man. When a man repents from the heart, it's not a "work" that he created, but a "work" God created for men to walk in. If I want to be included in "God's Salvation", these are "works" that God requires of me. These are "Works" that "God before ordained", that men should walk in them, a part of Eph. 2 seldom used when they promoting the evils of their "works salvation". These "works" are God's Works, not the popular religious traditions or commandments of men that this world's religious promoters teach for doctrines. We are instructed to "Seek" these "works of God", also called "Righteousness of God". These "works" are necessary in order to be accepted by God. The very purpose of a man "Repenting and turning to God" is so we will be accepted by God. The very purpose of Christ's Sacrifice is to give men another chance at being accepted by God.

Paul teaches:

Rom. 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And be not conformed to this world (including, but not limited to the religious philosophies, traditions and doctrines promoted by this world's religions) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, "that ye may prove" what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Paul lived by this teaching, and promoted it to both Jews and Gentiles. It is the Gospel of the Christ "of the bible", according to Paul.

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore "we" (Body of Christ) labour, that, whether present or absent, "we may be accepted of him".

10 For we must "all appear" before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, (Our Works) whether it be good or bad.

Peter taught the same:

2 Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that "ye may be found of him" in peace, without spot, and blameless.

So at one point in my life, I directed my own steps, walked in my own righteousness, like the Law of the Pharisees promoted, which represent this world's religious system. But I want for my wife and children and I to accepted of God, and forgiven so we can live with God forever.

And because of Jesus' Blood, I can change, and listen to God, and walk in a manner "Worthy of the Lord", as Paul teaches.

Eph. 4: 1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

Col. 1: 9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 That ye might "walk" worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

1 Thes. 2: 10 Ye are witnesses, and God also, how holily and justly and unblameably we behaved ourselves among you that believe: 11 As ye know how we exhorted and comforted and charged every one of you, as a father doth his children, 12 That ye would walk worthy of God, who hath called you unto his kingdom and glory.

2 Thes. 1: 4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for "your patience and faith" in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, (Not man) "that ye may be counted worthy" of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:


Good for you Jim, this "no works salvation" philosophy needs to be questioned. In closing I would add that it seems Christ knew this philosophy was coming, when HE warned about the "many" deceivers who come in His Name. And His Spirit in John also warns.

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let "no man" deceive you: he that "doeth righteousness" is righteous, even as "he is righteous".
 
Once again, you totally ignore all the passages I gave you

Dude you gave 2 verses and i at least gave you the courtesy of explaining them

I have given you ten times that amount and you refuse to do anything.

And I am supposed to repent and follow you?? :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
Dude, none of those verses established faith as the only necessary condition for salvation. And nowhere in the Bible does it ever present faith as the single sufficient condition for salvation.
 
@FreeInChrist
Can you prove elsewhere in Mark 16 that the baptism they are talking about was not with/in the Holy Spirit.....?
There is only one baptism under the NT post Acts 2, and that is water baptism into the faith/religion of Jesus Christ. There is not one word in the church epistles that encourages a baptism other than water baptism, if so, please show me. 1st Corinthian 12:13 is not one of them, but you think otherwise, then you can try to use that one if you think it should be used.
But if you believe that the baptism is immersion in water in Mark 16:16 , explain Mark 16:17 that follows with."These signs will accompany those who have believed: in My name they will cast out demons, they will speak with new tongues;

Are verse 16 and 17 talking about two separate events because I never heard anyone teach that after the immersion they "would" speak in tongues. YET, many hand their hat on Mark 16:16 and never mention vs 17 (or even 18)
For sake of time, please read this good article:

 
@Jim
What, biblically, is works salvation?
It is a gospel that said the sinner has an active part in his salvation from sin and condemnation, it basically said this to its followers: "This DO and live, sin and die"!

It is a gospel that said very little of Christ being the surety of God's elect, actually they mock the uses of the phrase: God's elect, and truly never use the words, it is almost a curse word among them. The most hated folks in the rellgion is not the great whore of Revelation 17, but those few saints that freely uses the word~God's elect, knowing that salvation from sin and condemnation is unconditional, and is by grace alone, without the works of teh law, or any law that said~"This DO and live, sin and die" ~ witht eh emphasis on man must do certain works before God will saved him from their sins.

Acts 15:1​

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”

And many such things they say to add to the redemption Christ secured for his elect.

Acts 15:2​

“When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.”
 
I think that there is little doubt that baptism in Mark 16, and elsewhere such as Matthew 28:19-20 is talking about water baptism.
I think that was well understood until about the 1500s when Zwingli began to react against the RRC paedobaptism and ended up trying to uncouple any physical water baptism from Christian salvation.

As far as Mark 16:9-20 is concerned, I don't have any strong feelings about its authenticity. I don't thing verse 16 stands in opposition to the rest of the NT at all. As far as verse 17 is concerned, all I can say is that it was true is some selected and limited occasions even if not universally true.
Again

How about John 1, John 3, John 4. John 5. John 6. Eph 2, Titus 3, etc etc..
 
Dude, none of those verses established faith as the only necessary condition for salvation. And nowhere in the Bible does it ever present faith as the single sufficient condition for salvation.


I asked you to show me one work that was required in those passages.

If you can not show me even one work. Your argument is toast.

Again, Either go to each passage as I did yours. and at least try to explain it. Or just give it up. Because no one is going to repent and come your way when you can not even explain the gospel in those passages
 
@FreeInChrist

There is only one baptism under the NT post Acts 2, and that is water baptism into the faith/religion of Jesus Christ. There is not one word in the church epistles that encourages a baptism other than water baptism, if so, please show me. 1st Corinthian 12:13 is not one of them, but you think otherwise, then you can try to use that one if you think it should be used.

For sake of time, please read this good article:

wrong there is also the baptism of the Spirit.
 
@FreeInChrist

There is only one baptism under the NT post Acts 2, and that is water baptism into the faith/religion of Jesus Christ. There is not one word in the church epistles that encourages a baptism other than water baptism, if so, please show me. 1st Corinthian 12:13 is not one of them, but you think otherwise, then you can try to use that one if you think it should be used.
wrong

there was the baptism of john

there is the baptism of the holy spirit and fire

there was the baptism into paul.

Baptize is not even a native english word. Lets interpret it by its origional use..
 
wrong

there was the baptism of john

there is the baptism of the holy spirit and fire

there was the baptism into paul.

Baptize is not even a native english word. Lets interpret it by its origional use..
some don't understand what one singular means or what plural means :ROFLMAO:

they conflate them :)

its the same error unitarians make with God. :)
 
wrong

there was the baptism of john

there is the baptism of the holy spirit and fire

there was the baptism into paul.

Baptize is not even a native english word. Lets interpret it by its origional use..
some don't understand what one singular means or what plural means :ROFLMAO:

they conflate them :)

its the same error unitarians make with God. :)
So you are saying that Eph 4:5 is using a plural usage of the number "ONE"?
 
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