"Works Salvation"

[synergy]

Yes in reality so when are you going to chose that way?

So you recant your heretical "there are two ways to heaven" statement. Excellent!! We're making progress.

No I just stated a fact if you reject the cross your only means is the law which sadly you have failed

I strongly suggest that you do not reject the Cross because your imaginary "obey the law" "way to heaven" is just a figment of your imagination.

Yawn

Why do you yawn at John 14:6 which declares that Jesus is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life"?

When will you repent?

LOL! Repent that I'm grateful for the unmerited Preordained Good Works that God elected for us????

I highly advise that you stop stomping on your election and start to be grateful for the good works that you were elected for, before people start calling you "Eternally-UnGrateful".

 

[charismaticlady]

A work is a work

It does not matter what work we do. If we do it to be saved it is. Work that will be rejected

Good morning, my friend

Remember James knows of a work that shows our faith.

1. James 1:4
   But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.
   
2. James 1:25
   But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.
   
3. James 2:14
   

   Faith Without Works Is Dead​

   What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
   
4. James 2:17
   Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
   
5. James 2:18
   But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
   
6. James 2:20
   But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
   
7. James 2:21
   Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
   
8. James 2:22
   Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
   
9. James 2:24
   You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
   
10. James 2:25
    Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
    
11. James 2:26
    For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

 

[charismaticlady]

This infers you are saved and have eternal life

Not to stay saved

Do you love your wife and not cheat on her to stay married? I hope so.

Not to stay saved

same as above

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Good morning, my friend

Remember James knows of a work that shows our faith.

1. James 1:4
   But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing.
2. James 1:25
   But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.
3. James 2:14
   

   Faith Without Works Is Dead​

   What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?
4. James 2:17
   Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
5. James 2:18
   But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
6. James 2:20
   But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
7. James 2:21
   Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
8. James 2:22
   Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect?
9. James 2:24
   You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
10. James 2:25
    Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
11. James 2:26
    For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

You work to earn merit

As children of god we work to produce fruit and be rewarded by God

We don’t work to stay saved

That would put us under law not grace

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Do you love your wife and not cheat on her to stay married? I hope so.

That’s different than saying I can work to save myself from the penalty of sin

same as above

Same as above

The wage of sin is death. Not me doing good works

 

[charismaticlady]

You work to earn merit

As children of god we work to produce fruit and be rewarded by God

We don’t work to stay saved

That would put us under law not grace

Good morning. When we no longer have a sin nature, and on top of that we are filled with the Holy Spirit (what Adam never had) we are a slave of righteousness. Not by choice, but now by nature. Romans 6:18 "And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness."

Please seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Just pray for it. It will change your life, and you will no longer be cynical.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Good morning. When we no longer have a sin nature, and on top of that we are filled with the Holy Spirit (what Adam never had) we are a slave of righteousness. Not by choice, but now by nature. Romans 6:18 "And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness."

Please seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Just pray for it. It will change your life, and you will no longer be cynical.

I was baptized by god 50 years ago.

I am not cynical

 

[Seabass]

a.) "Is it true that man has no control, no role at all in his own eternal destiny?"
b.) "Did Noah have no control, no role at all in the saving of his house?"

Two different applications that also contain some commonality.

a.) Is not controlled by man because man is not in control of Salvation, whereas God is.
Control and role are not synonymous for the One who is in control is not the same as the one who in his/her role

b.) After a person receives Salvation(God's Control), he/she remains(role) dependent upon God for obedience unto "Thy will be done on earth"

c.) God knowing all things, directed James in writing the Letter/Book of James

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Noah had a role in his own salvation from the flood by building the ark as God commanded him. Therefore in a sense Noah had control over his fate of either being saved or drowned in the flood by choosing to obey God's command in building the ark.

 

[Seabass]

Everything, except God, has an origin.

Works have an origin and that origin is the source.

Where you derive works from decides your salvation or your eternal separation from God.

this is Pure and Undefiled TRUTH = from the Mouth of God = the Gospel

God has given commands to men to follow and in that sense men can "save yourselves" (Acts 2:40) by either choosing to obey those commands or not. Hence man cannot save himself by himself but man must take what God has given, the gospel, and obey that God given gospel to be saved, 2 Thess 1:8.

 

[Seabass]

Great, so 'which' do I obey?:

1) His Words/Commands To Israel (through 12), According To Prophecy/Law/Covenants:? or:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

2) His Wholesome Words/Commands To The Body Of Christ (through one), According To
The Revelation Of The Mystery / Grace!

or:

3) The homogenization of 1 + 2 with Total Confusion / Division / Strife about "words of obedience"???

I have decided to follow/obey Jesus?

Amen.

Atheist can be very moral and do good works in giving to the needy and lending a helping hand to those in need but all the good works one does cannot earn salvation. Salvation is thru obedience to God's will in doing what God has said man must do; to believe, repent confess, be baptized. Cornelius was a good person, gave alms to the poor yet lost for he had not obeyed the gospel of Christ, 2 Thess 1:8.

 

[DavidTree]

God has given commands to men to follow and in that sense men can "save yourselves" (Acts 2:40) by either choosing to obey those commands or not. Hence man cannot save himself by himself but man must take what God has given, the gospel, and obey that God given gospel to be saved, 2 Thess 1:8.

KEY Ingredient/Truth in your statement is this: "man must take what God has given"

Without that KEY Truth, your statement would be self-will over God's Will.

Evidence: James 1:16-18
Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

 

[DavidTree]

Noah had a role in his own salvation from the flood by building the ark as God commanded him. Therefore in a sense Noah had control over his fate of either being saved or drowned in the flood by choosing to obey God's command in building the ark.

The control/choice/opportunity was given to Noah from the LORD = Yes or No

 

[DavidTree]

Atheist can be very moral and do good works in giving to the needy and lending a helping hand to those in need but all the good works one does cannot earn salvation. Salvation is thru obedience to God's will in doing what God has said man must do; to believe, repent confess, be baptized. Cornelius was a good person, gave alms to the poor yet lost for he had not obeyed the gospel of Christ, 2 Thess 1:8.

Cornelius obeyed the Gospel = Acts chapter 10

 

[Seabass]

One cannot obey the Gospel until Christ saves them, the Spirit has to sanctify them 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Christs Salvation causes the obedience, thats what Heb 5:9 is teaching

one is lost and remains lost until one first obeys the gospel, 2 Thess 1:8.
Paul spoke of "obedience UNTO righteousness" Rom 6:16 not obedience because one is already saved.
One believes UNTO righteousness.... confession is UNTO salvation. Rom 10:10

------------------------------------

"according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied."



1 Pet 1:2 does not say God foreknew or foreordained certain people to be saved. God foreknew those who choose to become a Christian make up the elect, God does not chose who will or will not be a Christian and of the elect.

What God did foreknow was that being of the elect requires the Spirit and obedience of man.

The Spirit's role in man becoming a Christian, of the elect is His word that instructs man on how to be saved. Those that obey those words of the SPirit are the one sanctified...hence man is sanctified by the word, Jn 17:17

Man's role is obedience to the Spirit word whereby he can be sanctified.


Jn 3:5--------Spirit +++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>>>>> in the kingdom/sanctified/saved
1 Pet 1:2----Spirit +++++++++++ obedience >>>>>>>>> elect/Christian/saved

From the context of 1 Pet 1:1-2 God foreknew and it was prophesied that the Gentiles (heathen nations) would be of God's elect under the NT gospel and not just the Jews, (Psa 2:8). Yet when Christ came to earth bringing the salvation of His gospel to men not all Gentiles were universally, unconditionally given to Christ as foreknown and prophesied. We see from Acts 10 the first Gentile converts and it was only those Gentiles that heard the instructions of the Spirit through an inspired Peter and obeyed those words by being baptized were of the elect.

 

[Seabass]

Cornelius obeyed the Gospel = Acts chapter 10

Yes, doing good works cannot save, it takes obedience to God in obeying the gospel to be saved.

 

[DavidTree]

Yes, doing good works cannot save, it takes obedience to God in obeying the gospel to be saved.

Where did the good works of Cornelius come from?

 

[Seabass]

The control/choice/opportunity was given to Noah from the LORD = Yes or No

God did not owe it to Noah to save him from the flood but God graciously gave Noah the opportunity to be saved from the flood and God's grace CONDITIONALLY required Noah to build the ark. Noah obeying by building the ark is how Noah received God's grace...not building the ark would be rejecting God's gracious offer of salvation from the flood.

Noah was saved by a combination of God's grace and Noah's obedience. Since he was saved by grace his obedience is not, cannot be a work of merit. If obedience is a work of merit then God owed him salvation and his salvation was not of grace.

When faith onlyists try to equate obedience as being a work of merit they rip grace out of the context.

 

[Tobias]

To me as a Calvinist, good works are understood as evidence of salvation, not the cause of it. While we Calvinists believe that salvation is entirely by God's grace through faith alone, we also emphasize that genuine faith will inevitably lead to a life of good works. These works are seen as a fruit or consequence of salvation, not a means to achieve it.