charismaticlady
Active Member
I agree.
"Works Salvation"
- Thread starter Seabass
- Start date
charismaticlady
Active Member
Yes, all sin is missing the mark of perfection. But we should not teach that "sin is sin." There are sins unto death, but also sins not unto death. It is best to know how God (in judging) thinks. After being born again of the Spirit we cannot commit a sin unto death, 1 John 3:9. We are clean, John 15:3. But one who is born again and WALKS in the Spirit will commit sins not unto death (unintentional sins) from not being mature in all fruit of the Spirit that the blood of Jesus cleanses as we continue to grow in the Lord, 1 John 1:7. This verse is not including sins unto death that we already cannot commit. The church at large is ignorant of this distinction. 2 Peter 1:2-11 shows that once the fruit of the Spirit are mature, we will NEVER STUMBLE. That can be in this lifetime that many in the church do not believe because of our body that is aging and corrupting. Sin has nothing to do with our body. Our spirit and soul controls our bodies, not the other way around.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
yes there is a condition
trust God..
your under law. You can spin it a million ways. But you have placed yourself under law
There is either grace or law. there is no other option..
don't water down the law and think you will make it by your good deeds. you will nto make it
The debt was paid for the world. So what is the difference between you and those who receive salvation?
synergy
Active Member
LOL! I couldn't recite all 10 commandments even if my life depended on it! My ancestors stopped that works of the Law nonsense 2000 years ago! You've outdone yourself this time.
False dichotomy. God's Preordained Good Works are part of His Grace. To say otherwise is to be ungrateful for what He has elected you for. So stop stomping on your election and start to be grateful.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
again
there are two ways to heaven
1. Obey the law
2. Grace
since you reject grace, You are left with only one options.
I don't care if you can recite any command, if your trying to earn your salvation by obedience. this puts you under law
Grace is unmerited.
If I have to merit by obedience. then its not of grace it is of works.
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)
2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)
Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
Doug Brents
Active Member
What does it mean to "trust God"?
It means that when He says, "IF you repent, THEN you will receive forgiveness" (Acts 3:19), you must repent or you don't get forgiveness (salvation).
It means that when He says, "IF you confess Jesus as Lord with the mouth, THEN you will receive salvation" (Rom 10:9-10), you must confess Him verbally or you don't receive salvation.
It means that when He says, "IF you are baptized, THEN you will be saved" (Acts 2:38, Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-7, 1 Pet 3:21, etc.), you must be baptized (in water) or you aren't saved.
Trusting God is putting your whole life, soul, future, hope, etc. in His promises, and expecting that He will come through on His end. But if we don't do what He said, then we can certainly expect that He WON'T do those things.
Thank you for your opinion.
The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.
All of these things come because we have been saved, because we have been joined to the Vine (Jesus) so that we can bear this fruit.
Which of these fruits does repentance fall under?
Which of these fruits does baptism fall under?
Which of these fruits does confession of Jesus fall under?
These things are not fruits of the Spirit. They do not grow out from having been saved. They are conditions upon which we receive the gift of God (see the verses noted above).
charismaticlady
Active Member
That is not spiritual death.
charismaticlady
Active Member
I like memorizing the Bible. The Old Covenant is a good foundation to have. Besides, we have to know them to keep the spirit of the law, not the letter. Romans 7:5-6
My husband and I when we would go out hiking, needed to talk so we wouldn't get to out of breath and I would recite the ten commandments word for word (KJV) and the books of the Bible, then any other like the psalms, etc.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
it means to stop trusting self. to stop working for it. and to trust God.
it does not mean to say you trust God., then start working for it again
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
your right, its not
If I have eternal life. and Gods promise I will never perish.
then I will live forever (spiritually) and never perish (spiritually.
a man given this promise from God cannot die spiritually
but they can commit a sin unto death (physical)
Doug Brents
Active Member
If you do not obey what He said to do in order to receive His gift, then you don't really trust Him. That is not trusting in self, it is trusting in Him to do what He said.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
I did do what he said. I repented came to faith and recieved it.
If you obeying commands to be saved your trusting self not God
God saved you to obey. Not because you obeyed because all have sinned. You can’t obey enough you already failed
Doug Brents
Active Member
Being perfect is not what He says is required to be saved. There are three actions that God says are mandatory before we receive His gift of salvation: repentance (Acts 3:19), verbal confession of Jesus as Lord (Rom 10:9-10), and baptism in water (Acts 2:38, 1 Pet 3:21, Col 2:11-14, Rom 6:1-7, Gal 3:26-27, Eph 5:26-27, John 3:5, and others). These three (and only these three) physical actions LEAD TO or RESULT IN our receiving His gift. Just repenting doesn't do it. Having faith is doing these things. If you don't do these things, they you don't really have faith.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Actually yes. If you want to save yourself. you must be perfect.. Thats what the law required.
Sadlyu,. All have sinned and fall short.
so we all must be saved by grace.
and there you go. YOUR works..
again, you put yourself under law.. you reject grace.
You can have the gospel. I will trust Christ. Not my works or acts of obedience. which can not spare me from the wage of one sin
Doug Brents
Active Member
duhhh!
No, not "your works". Your works don't earn, deserve, or merit anything other than eternal death in Hell. EG, get your head out of that hole it is in and give it a shake. Read what the Word of God says, and not what you want it to say.
Do you not know what an "if/then" statement means? All of the statements I have referred to in Scripture are "if/then". If you do this, then God will do that. If you don't do this, then God won't do that.
If you repent then God will forgive (Acts 3:19).
If you repent and are baptized, then God will give you forgiveness and the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).
If you are baptized in water, then you will be saved (1 Pet 3:21).
If you born again of water and the Spirit, then you will will see the Kingdom of God (John 3:5).
If you are baptized, then you will be made clean and pure as the bride of Christ (Eph 5:26-27).
If you are baptized, then you will be adopted by God and clothed with Christ (Gal 3:26-27).
These are all just like the if/then statements of the OT.
If you dip in Jordan 7 times, then you will be cleansed of leprosy (2 Kings 5:10).
If you give me your last bite to eat, then you will have food until the famine ends (1 Kings 17:13-14).
If you march around Jericho in a certain way, then I will bring the walls down (Josh 6).
And there are many, many more. The giving, the marching, the dipping, none of that "earned", "merited", or "deserved" any reward. But because God promised that "if you do this (the way I told you to), then I will do that", if we trust Him and do what He said to do, then He will keep His promise and give us what He said He would.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
you say it. But then you add works.
again, works cancels out grace
water baptism is your work
1. You walked or drove or did what you had to do to get to the place where you will be baptized
2. You (in my case.) dawned clothes so I could enter the baptismal)
3. You entered the water
4. Another sinner, who also had to be saved, came up and immersed you in water by saying some words.
thats about as much work as a person getting circumcised did. only theirs was painful. where you got wet.
I was baptized by God.
I did not work. He baptized me on the spot when i called out to him in faith.
thats what seperates us
Your faith is in a work you did
My faith is in a work God did
Doug Brents
Active Member
No, it is my faith in God's promise that if I surrender to Him in baptism, He will take away my sin, give me Jesus' righteousness, and make me part of the first resurrection.
Works of the Law cancel grace. Works of faith are required to receive grace.
No, it is not. It is God's commanded response to His work.
If that is the only baptism you think you have had, then you haven't had it, and you haven't obeyed the Scripture.
Matt 28:19 commands the teacher of the Gospel to do the baptizing of their students. It doesn't say that the Holy Spirit will do the baptizing.
Acts 2:38 commands the student to receive baptism in order to receive forgiveness of sin and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
1 Pet 3:21 commands baptism in water as the point at which salvation is received.
John 3:3, 5 says that you cannot enter or see the Kingdom of God unless you are born again of both water and the Spirit.
My faith is in God's promise. Your faith is in your perverted understanding that ignores and twists much Scripture so that it fits your preconception.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Its all about you
I am done.. You keep pumping your chest. I will rest in christ. No need to continue
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