"Works Salvation"

First question. When you say the curse of the law is removed, I hope you don't mean they can freely sin without being punished?
it means just that.
'
the curse of the law is removed.

All sin has consequences. If your borh again you not only receive the consequences, but you are chastened by God. Believe you me, having experienced that. it is not fun..
That would be a doctrine of demons to get us to damn ourselves to hell, right where they want us.
if you think sin can still condemn you. you are back under law. and you have no hope..
I'll be back later.
god bless
 
I haven't seen many of your admissions coming from you when you are wrong.

You may "reject" it, but you preach it.

Right back atcha EG.
nothing of value in this post

all yu do is attack and accuse. You never have anything meaningful to say.

Show me the gnostic teachings I believe in.. I will wait and prove you wrong
 
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3
yep.

but if your not saved.. you can not keep his commands.. Your under law and required to keep every one
This scripture teaches us how we love God and our neighbor… by keeping His commandments.


Do you desire to obey Him?
No. it teaches we love them by loveing them. and when we do. we will by practice keep the commands.
Jesus said the law of love fulfills the law of moses.

Not the law of moses fulfills the law of love
 
Walking according to the Spirit is what each of us are called to do.

Otherwise we will practice the works of the flesh.
amen

but you still will not keep the just requirment of the law

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16
amen

this is what Gods people do. BECAUSE they are saved.

Not what people to do to get saved ot keep their salvation. they are under law. and must meet the requirment of the law
 
No. it teaches we love them by loveing them. and when we do. we will by practice keep the commands.
Jesus said the law of love fulfills the law of moses.

Not the law of moses fulfills the law of love

We are not under the law of Moses.

However the 10 Commandments did not originate with Moses.


Nevertheless Jesus said …

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:36-38
 
it means just that.
'
the curse of the law is removed.
Didn't Paul address this belief in Romans 6?

Romans 6:1 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?"

and

Romans 6:15 "15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 ;Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Doesn't Romans 8 say we are not under either law or sin. We are freed from both.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

But I can see here how you could think that sin no longer means death. But, personally, I'm not going to take any chances. But that's easy seeing as I don't have any desire to sin as what 6:2 says (for some time now) so I'm not worried.

In other words the baptism of fire (the Holy Spirit) removes all desire to commit sins of the flesh. That is not only what I see in Scripture, it has been my experience. I felt a heavy darkness lift out of me - the sin in my nature. I choose to partake of the divine nature of Christ and pursue holiness.
 
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Now your a liar.

What ?!

Why call Fran a liar?

I have been away for a while from this thread and now I see this........

Born again Christians have a habit not to lie, what I see in this thread is typical Babylonian language confusion, you have more in common than you differ, maybe you don't even differ at all!

None of the passages I show had any works required.

Correct.

Yet you continually try to insert works to the equation.

Matt 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matt 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

You do agree with that, don't you?

So what is left to discuss?

As for a personal note, in my case I learned that ~90% of the fruits (works) Jesus speaks off has been working on myself.

How about you?
 
His Commandments do not refer to the law of Moses which was abolished to make way for the New Covenant.

We are under the law of Christ… not the law of Moses.
lol.. The law of moses is what condemns you.

if you have not kept it all

the law of christ contains 2 commands. Love God. and anyone you come in contact with (even your enemy)

if we could keep that perfectly. we would keep the law of moses perfectly.

since we can't do that. we continue to break the law of moses. which should point us to christ. But the one who waters down the law of Moses can't do that. he has deceived his or herself he is good..
 
Amen.

But if we don’t walk in the Spirit we will fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Yes, and we will suffer the result. we will be chastened by God. he may even take us home early.

But he will nto kick us out of his family
If we “practice “ the works of the flesh we will not inherit the kingdom of God.
A child of God can not practice the works of the flesh (the apostle john)

why do you disregard the power of God to change his people?

Was Jonah not a warning to those who try to walk away. that God will keep coming after you and put road blocks in your way, and chasten you?

A dog returns to his vomit, because he is a dog.

A child of God is no longer a dog.. he has been made into a new creature in christ for good works..
 
We are not under the law of Moses.

However the 10 Commandments did not originate with Moses.


Nevertheless Jesus said …

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:36-38
You just made my point for me, thank you

On those two command hang ALL the law.....

we do not do those to commands to get saved. we do them because we are saved.

We love because he first loved us and gave himself as a ransom for us.
 
Didn't Paul address this belief in Romans 6?

Romans 6:1 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?"

and

Romans 6:15 "15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 ;Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
Neither of these verses is paul saying if we sin we will fall back under law and be lost. so I am not sure what your saying

I agree with paul. We have been saved from the penalty of sin, don't use this freedom for gain.. ALL things are lawful. but not all are profitable
Doesn't Romans 8 say we are not under either law or sin. We are freed from both.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
Yes, the law of sin and death can not condemn you anymore.. thats why its called the law of death. Cursed is the one who does not obey every word. and as james said, if we just stumble on one sin, we are guilty of the whole law
But I can see here how you could think that sin no longer means death. But, personally, I'm not going to take any chances. But that's easy seeing as I don't have any desire to sin as what 6:2 says (for some time now) so I'm not worried.
I can God to God as my Abba Father. He has not given me a spirit of fear. but of sound mind

If I havce to worry that every time I screw up I wqill suffer death and seperation again. I have none of the two.

Jesus said come to him and he will give us rest. If I have to work in fear of dyeing because I make a mistake. willingly. or not, then I am not living in rest. I must live in fear. (even if I deny I am living in fear)
In other words the baptism of fire (the Holy Spirit) removes all desire to commit sins of the flesh.
The baptism of fire is hellfire.

It will never be quenched. Only the non believer will be baptized in fire. Those baptized with the HS are put in the barn for safekeeping until the ressurection day (sealed by the spirit is another term which states this)
That is not only what I see in Scripture, it has been my experience. I felt a heavy darkness lift out of me - the sin in my nature. I choose to partake of the divine nature of Christ and pursue holiness.
Thats great. But I pray you do not think you have made it and no longer sin.. When we get to this point. we are no longer teachable.. the sins we do commit. will not be exposed
 
What ?!

Why call Fran a liar?
because she lied.

what is it with people that want to excuse sin?
I have been away for a while from this thread and now I see this........

Born again Christians have a habit not to lie, what I see in this thread is typical Babylonian language confusion, you have more in common than you differ, maybe you don't even differ at all!
hmm. maybe this should tell you something?

Correct.

Matt 7:19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Matt 7:20 Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.

You do agree with that, don't you?
Yes I do

So does this mean all the verses I posted are not true. that me must have works and produce fruit.

or does it mean that the good tree (those who received the promises in the passages I posted) produced fruit

and although they were jews. Gods chosen people. if they did not receive what was in my verses/. they were not saved, and unable to produce fruit.

so we can know them by their fruits?

or do we make Matthew contradict the verses I gave.

thats what I asked Fran to do. resolve the contradiction. She could not. then lied about it by saying she did. then slandered me and others by saying we said or believe things we do not
So what is left to discuss?
Resolve the conflict. She could not. can you?
As for a personal note, in my case I learned that ~90% of the fruits (works) Jesus speaks off has been working on myself.

How about you?
I agree.

But this does not resolve the major issue

No works. vs works.

are works a byproduct of the passages I gave (salvation)

or are works done in order to get saved or receive the things promised in the verses I gave, causing a major contradiction. what say you?
 
In other words the baptism of fire (the Holy Spirit) removes all desire to commit sins of the flesh. That is not only what I see in Scripture, it has been my experience. I felt a heavy darkness lift out of me - the sin in my nature. I choose to partake of the divine nature of Christ and pursue holiness.
You might want to reread Paul's message concerning the Christian's continued struggle against sin. In Romans 7:14-20 Paul describes the nature of that struggle against sin. And then in verses 21-25 we read of the source of that struggle.

The critical point to understand is not that we no longer have a desire to sin, because we do. He says, in verse 15, "For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate". He personifies sin as a sort of demonic being existing within him that urges him on to commit sin. He says in verse 17, "So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me" This is very similar to what God told Cain in Genesis 4:7, "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it". In Romans 7:24-8:1 and following if we believe and place our trust and confidence in God, then He will give us the Holy Spirit to help us fend off those desires of the flesh. There is no promise that the Holy Spirit will remove all desires of the flesh; rather, the promise is that the Holy Spirit will help us to rule over it.
 
not it is not. Because Jesus said if you see a person comming a sin not leading to death

Unless you can see a person die.. that statement is irrevelent because it would be impossible to know
What is a sin that leads to death? An unrepented sin. Any sin that is repented of can and will be forgiven. But a sin that is not repented of leads to death. That is the situation David was in after he killed Uriah. He had committed adultery and murder and was unrepentant. But when confronted with his sin, he repented and turned back to God.
Spiritual death was taken care of on the cross.
And yet, everyone who sins is still dead in that sin until they obey the Gospel. The penalty for sin was taken care of at the cross, but the benefit of that is not applied to each individual until they personally turn to God in obedience to the Gospel.
You can not make yourself alive by anything you do. nothing you can do will cause God to forgive the least of your sins. let aloner the worst.
In a manner of speaking, you are right. But there are things He told us to do that result in our receiving salvation. And as with everyone in the OT to whom He offered gifts (the widows, Naaman, the nation of Israel, etc.), if they did (and we do) not do what He says we must do to get His gift, the gift is not received.
 
What is a sin that leads to death?
If I get drunjk, and get behjind the wheels and drive, and die.

I have commited a sin leading to death

If in Jesus day, I drank to much, and fell off a cliff. and died.

I committed a sin leading to death
An unrepented sin. Any sin that is repented of can and will be forgiven. But a sin that is not repented of leads to death. That is the situation David was in after he killed Uriah. He had committed adultery and murder and was unrepentant. But when confronted with his sin, he repented and turned back to God.
Thats because he was saved. He was a man after Gods own heart. a child of God.

not a non believer.
And yet, everyone who sins is still dead in that sin until they obey the Gospel. The penalty for sin was taken care of at the cross, but the benefit of that is not applied to each individual until they personally turn to God in obedience to the Gospel.

In a manner of speaking, you are right. But there are things He told us to do that result in our receiving salvation. And as with everyone in the OT to whom He offered gifts (the widows, Naaman, the nation of Israel, etc.), if they did (and we do) not do what He says we must do to get His gift, the gift is not received.
if sin can cause you to lose salvation. Then the cross is not enough..

and you have no hope.. because you have no means of forgievness. you can repent until your blue in the face. that sin was not redeemed.. and cannot be redeemed unless christ returns to die again.
 
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