brightfame52
Well-known member
Don t switch the subject
"Works Salvation"
- Thread starter Seabass
- Start date
Titus
Active member
After our discussion and listening to your responses to others on Berean Apologetics Ministry and Christianity board...
I believe you do not understand your own doctrine.
Your response on Adam's sin coming from Gods nature is one example.
Does it even bother you, you teaching Adam sinned because of his Father?
You seem to not understand the consequences of your beliefs.
Not once have I heard from another calvinist that Gods nature was given to Adam and by this nature Adam sinned.
Not from R.C. Sproul
Not from John Calvin
Not from James White
Not from Martin Luther
Not from Matt Slick
Not from Piper
Not anyone except you.
I'd like to know if you think it is moral or immoral to charge the son with the fathers crime?
Say a father robbed someone.
The judge found him guilty.
But the judge also charged his son and every son in that family for as long as that family continues.
Is that morally right or immoral?
What say ye?
Would you fight against the judges ruling or would you agree with the judge?
dwight92070
Well-known member
R. C Sproul said, "It was certainly loving of God to predestine the salvation of His people, those the Bible calls the "elect or chosen ones." It is the non-elect that are the problem. If some people are not elected unto salvation then it would seem that God is not all that loving toward them. For them it seems that it would have been more loving of God not to have allowed them to be born. That may indeed be the case."
"The Dark Side of Calvinism" by George Bryson (obviously NOT a Calvinist) Page 83
Bryson continues: "Not all that loving toward them" may be one of the greatest theological understatements of all time."
And Bryson is quoting R.C. Sproul! It seems as though Sproul was struck temporarily with a revelation of truth, since he went to his grave as a Calvinist.
"The Dark Side of Calvinism" by George Bryson (obviously NOT a Calvinist) Page 83
Bryson continues: "Not all that loving toward them" may be one of the greatest theological understatements of all time."
And Bryson is quoting R.C. Sproul! It seems as though Sproul was struck temporarily with a revelation of truth, since he went to his grave as a Calvinist.
brightfame52
Well-known member
I dont care about all that, youll be accountable for whats shown you, and of curse if you are elect, your sins are already forgiven, you just need to be converted, and you will be if elect. And again Adam got his nature from God, when he was created by God, who else gave it to him Santa Claus lol
dwight92070
Well-known member
If you are married, is your wife one of the elect? If you have kids, are they elect?
Titus
Active member
I already figured you dont care.
That is the problem.
And by your religious teaching of unconditional election, I dont have to do anything.
You are not consistent with your beliefs nor are you logical.
Does it bother you?
Apparently not, you don't care.
Titus
Active member
brightfame52
Well-known member
I expect to hear anything coming from you, it doesnt bother me, see ya at the Judgment though
Titus
Active member
I have no desire for you to suffer.
Only that you spend eternity with me in heaven as my brother.
I dont want to go without you!!!
brightfame52
Well-known member
All that is up to God friend
Titus
Active member
The gospel is how we know to be saved.
It's no longer a mystery to how we are saved or who will be saved.
brightfame52
Well-known member
If you know the Gospel, then you know Salvation is entirely up to God
brightfame52
Well-known member
From what I heard here, that was pretty sound. I wish he would have spent a few minutes on reprobation. Now did he believe in the common grace theory or the sincere offer theory to the non elect ?
While it is true, and declared for us in the Law and Prophets as well as the New Testament, that all men have sinned, that isn't the Point Paul, or God through David, that Paul quoted, was making. I know you and I have grown up in a world in which we are taught by the religious system were born into, "ALL MEN" are, and will always be as follows:
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
And the very foundation of Calvinism is based on the popular teaching Paul is describing "All Men", including Noah, Abraham, David, Meshak, Daniel, Zacharias, Simeon, Paul, Matthew and the Pharisees and Atheists, in his teaching above.
But when a person actually reads what Paul is saying, and goes to the Psalms he quoted, that isn't what Paul is saying at all. Please consider Paul and David's actual words, and feel free to challenge my understanding of their words by asking questions. This stuff is important, in my view.
Rom. 1: 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed "the oracles of God". 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief "make the faith of God without effect"? 4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Paul is speaking about Jews/Pharisees (promoters of the mainstream religion of that time) who have been shown the Word of God but doesn't believe them. But when it comes down to who is true, God's Word or man's word, God wins out every time. Paul continues.
5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? 7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
Does Paul teach for men to "do evil, that good may come"? Is there anyone on this forum who believes that Paul does? Of course not. No, this was a false accusation of the Pharisees, the mainstream preachers of Paul's Time, towards Paul and the Church of God. A religious sect who had the Oracles of God but didn't believe them. A religious sect that falsely accused Paul and persecuted the Church of God, as we know from other parts of the Scripture, "Whose damnation is Just". Paul continues:
9 What then? are we better than they?
My friend, who is the "WE"? And who are the "THEY"?
Most men on this forum are here to promote the philosophies of their own religious sect, chosen from the literally hundreds available in the religious system of this world were born into. But I am seeking God and His Truth through His Word. Please, seek with me and answer this very important question, who was Paul referring to when he says "We" and when he says "they". Paul continues.
No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all (Still) under sin;
I found where Paul "Before Proved" that "They", Pharisees who Slander and persecute the Church of God, as still under Sin. You can find this teaching of Paul in Romans 2: 5-11. It's in your own Bible and I hope you will go thee. You will also find the exact same teaching in Psalms 14 and 5 that Paul quoted.
"Psalms 14:4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD. 5 There were they (God's people) in great fear: for God is in the generation of the righteous."
Ps. 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity. 6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man. 7 But as for me, (God's People) I will come into thy house in the multitude of thy mercy: and in thy fear will I worship toward thy holy temple. 8 Lead me, O LORD, in thy righteousness because of mine enemies; make thy way straight before my face. 9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their "throat is an open sepulchre"; they flatter with their tongue.
So to everyone on this thread, neither God nor Paul is teaching what this world's religious system has convinced us of, since our youth.
Do the study for yourself. Don't twist it to fit an existing philosophy, just SEEK to understand what Paul, and the Spirit of Christ in David, are teaching.
dwight92070
Well-known member
So actually the book is 398 pages long, so does this make it more palatable for you?
atpollard
Well-known member
I never trust when the opposition to a position gets to select the quote to define the position they are refuting. Let Arminians define what they believe and Calvinists define what they believe. Arminians cherry-picking to define what Calvinists “really believe” always raises red flags.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
or let a former calvinist post about calvinism.
. wink wink
civic
Well-known member
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