With the New Covenant, How many Natures Do We Have?

[e v e]

There are two realms.

1 - The satanic realm.
the principalities of the demon nations where are sodom and gomorrah and the ovens daniel describes - in the other reality. Where they murdered Us. And as its satellite , this prison dungeon earth not made by God.

2 - God's paradise for us
which we lost ... which His sons
will rebuild and rule with Christ
and which All His souls will return to soon.


We are experiencing the Fall. Still.

Christ made it Possible for us to go Home
to our eden paradise and be saved from
here not just as our soul being His
but also cosmologicaly ! To Go
Home , to have our resurrection
to His Nature

 

[Peterlag]

Maybe Scripture will help you to see Israel is the Church of God.
Just remember who Israel is. Corporately they are the descendants of Jacob whom God changed his name to "Israel."
You do know this, right? Or do I have to edumacate you?

Here is the Word of God (you do respect and accept the Word of God, don't you, for all you are called to believe, yes?

9 And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padan-aram, and blessed him.
10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.
Gen. 35:9–12.

The descendants of Jacob/Israel occupy a portion of the land today. But this is the Promisede Land:

View attachment 780

And here is where the giving of this land marked out above is found:

18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.
Gen. 15:17–21.

As far as Israel being the true Church of God here is the proof:

The Greek word "church" is first mentioned here (in book order - not date order)

1 PAUL, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ
1 Cor. 1:1–3.

I will give you the Greek word for both "church" and "saints" below: (from Strong's)

church: ἐκκλησία
Transliteration: ekklēsia
The English word is found 118 times in the KJV, 115 times translated "church" and three times as "assembly."
from a compound of [#1537] (ek) and a derivative of [#2564] (kaleo); a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both)

18 I will give thee thanks in the great congregation:
I will praise thee among much people
Ps 35:18.

and again, speaking of Israel (you do know who Solomon is, yes? King of Israel.)
8 Also at the same time Solomon kept the feast seven days, and all Israel with him, a very great congregation, from the entering in of Hamath unto the river of Egypt.
2 Chron. 7:8.

-----------

saints: ἅγιος
Transliteration: hagios
Found 229 times. Translated as "holy" 161 times, "saints" 61 times, "Holy One" 4 times, and 3 miscelleaneous words.
from hagos (an awful thing) [compare <G53> (hagnos), <H2282> (chag)]; sacred (physical pure, moral blameless or religious, ceremony consecrated)

The Old Testament is written first and the word is found here (among other places)

Speaking of Israel:
9 Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness;
And let thy saints shout for joy.
Psalms 132:9.

Do I need to edumacate you about Israel being the Bride"? Or will you take my word for it.

The word “church” comes from the Greek word “ecclesia” and it means assembly, or a congregation of called out ones, such as Israel who was an “ecclesia” or an assembly of people called out from among the rest of the world. The word is also used of a smaller company of Israelites, called out from among an assembly of Israel, which was the tribal council of Simeen and Levi. Later in the same time period we find it used for another kind of an assembly, referring to those who were called-out from all of Israel as worshippers assembling themselves together before the Temple. In the time period covered by the gospels, the called out ones are “the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

The word “church” in the epistles acquires a meaning it never had before, which started when the disciples were separated away from the unbelief of Israel, and that caused the word “ecclesia” to acquire a more restricted meaning because it was then used for “The Church of God.” The Church of God is an assembly composed of not only the Jews, but also anyone able to be born into the family of God and become a member of the body of Christ. This special usage of the word “ecclesia” deals with an assembling of people, who were not known until they were first revealed to the apostle Paul as part of the secret that was “hid in God” and was “kept secret since the world began.” This great secret is concerning our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the head of the Church of God, and the end will be when the members of that assembly, the Church of God that belongs to the body of Christ, is received up in glory.

 

[e v e]

jacob will be left behind : most of christianity...
for jacob believes God created this earth
and follows the flesh
and all its needs and wants


to be taken up in glory
is to be restored to the original body made by God
for us in paradise in the other reality...
and restored to His nature
and to our land which is eden

 

[e v e]

Saved =

everything back as He declared good before the fall...

His sons and daughters in our Home ,
Restored to His eden paradise and nature
and birthright.

the fall was satans plan --- Not God's

This time line, everything since the fall,
this heathen civilization
will end.

never to be remembered again.

This earth will not be remembered
and will be fit only for the rats and moles
and demon souls.

 

[e v e]

we are in sheol -
not His creation.

 

[e v e]

the 144k sons and daughters will meet Christ on the clouds
restored to our original body made by God
=resurrection
and the sons will rebuild eden
which the demon nations destroyed
(even simply by hurting us)

and the sons and daughters will return to this earth
to visit left behind jacob
and comfort him, for,
many will cry out
having been left behind....
misled by their theologians and
pastors
and after his death by the demon nations
its locusts ,
when jacob dies during trib ,
after having met the 144k who are
the two witnesses,
the originals of eden male and female

God will bring jacob to paradise
then... after his tribulation
and he will be saved

 

[e v e]

Maybe Scripture will help you to see Israel is the Church of God.
Just remember who Israel is. Corporately they are the descendants of Jacob whom God changed his name to "Israel."
You do know this, right? Or do I have to edumacate you?

Here is the Word of God (you do respect and accept the Word of God, don't you, for all you are called to believe, yes?

9 And God appeared unto Jacob again, when he came out of Padan-aram, and blessed him.
10 And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.
11 And God said unto him, I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins;
12 And the land which I gave Abraham and Isaac, to thee I will give it, and to thy seed after thee will I give the land.
Gen. 35:9–12.

The descendants of Jacob/Israel occupy a portion of the land today. But this is the Promisede Land:

View attachment 780

And here is where the giving of this land marked out above is found:

18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.
Gen. 15:17–21.

As far as Israel being the true Church of God here is the proof:

The Greek word "church" is first mentioned here (in book order - not date order)

1 PAUL, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ
1 Cor. 1:1–3.

I will give you the Greek word for both "church" and "saints" below: (from Strong's)

church: ἐκκλησία
Transliteration: ekklēsia
The English word is found 118 times in the KJV, 115 times translated "church" and three times as "assembly."
from a compound of [#1537] (ek) and a derivative of [#2564] (kaleo); a calling out, i.e. (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both)

18 I will give thee thanks in the great congregation:
I will praise thee among much people
Ps 35:18.

and again, speaking of Israel (you do know who Solomon is, yes? King of Israel.)
8 Also at the same time Solomon kept the feast seven days, and all Israel with him, a very great congregation, from the entering in of Hamath unto the river of Egypt.
2 Chron. 7:8.

-----------

saints: ἅγιος
Transliteration: hagios
Found 229 times. Translated as "holy" 161 times, "saints" 61 times, "Holy One" 4 times, and 3 miscelleaneous words.
from hagos (an awful thing) [compare <G53> (hagnos), <H2282> (chag)]; sacred (physical pure, moral blameless or religious, ceremony consecrated)

The Old Testament is written first and the word is found here (among other places)

Speaking of Israel:
9 Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness;
And let thy saints shout for joy.
Psalms 132:9.

Do I need to edumacate you about Israel being the Bride"? Or will you take my word for it.

that map displays but an earthly kingdom of the fallen reality, upon this current earth. It will cease and never be remembered.

 

[e v e]

Christ is the son of God who came to this earth
through the same path as we, which was the
torture of us in the other reality by the demon
nations. (so no our soul did not start with this
flesh body!)

but willingly Jesus took that step down... and
passed through what is Daniel's oven that same
torture of us after the fall when Adam turned us
over to the Demons.

This is the meaning of Jerusalem
as place of torture in the other reality.
a horror for Him and us .

Jesus took a huge step down,
incarnating in this underworld dungeon
(where we are imprisoned since then
- after they torturing us -
onand sending us to
this earth not made by God)

Christ made it Possible At All
for us to escape from here,
and meet Him on the clouds soon,
and be restored to our eden paradise,
which all the sons will rebuild with Christ...

We are born with a Sin Nature. Do you believe that the blood of Jesus takes away the sin out of our nature? Or do you believe the blood of Jesus is not that powerful and we still live with our sin nature? And Jesus added a sin-free nature so that we now have two natures? If the latter, please give scriptures. Or if you have a third concept, what is it? And scriptures of course.

no .

His souls will be taken out of this flesh
which itself is sin nature. Evacuated ..
removed from this earth.

This Flesh and its 'natural mind'
cannot be purified. This body IS sin.
Paul is clear it is a ball and chain.

the only sin free nature was in eden
before the fall
(in the other reality) and,

will be again in eden when His souls are
restored in the original body made by God

a soul listening to Him is of course sweet
but oppressed because of being in this flesh
until rapture when we are saved from here.

 

[e v e]

The reason why His souls fail
and get compromised is exactly
this flesh tomb we are in...
death...

 

[e v e]

I don't want my posts to get too long so I will only comment on Romans 7 for now...

I have had a number of Christians tell me about Romans 7 when I tell them I do not believe Paul taught about a "sin nature" for the Christian. Romans 7 tells us right up at the top of the chapter that Paul is talking to those who are into or know the law. And then the context of the whole chapter is how we can see it's all about Israel and their Law and how they toy with their flesh. What Paul talks about in the seventh chapter of Romans is what occurs to the believer who still thinks the Law applies to them. They end up spiritually dying by the commandment and realize that the commandment does not produce life. The war is with their flesh because they are still believing the Law has power over them. In the eighth chapter of Romans is where it explains how we overcome this whole issue by living in the spirit and being dead to the Law. We cannot live by faith in what Christ has done for us and still think our obedience to written laws are necessary. To do so takes away from the perfect work of Christ and places salvation and righteousness back in our own hands. Romans 8 states "the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin..."

there are two laws: which represent two realms or natures.

the evil realm is sin and death - which is sin nature (cosmos, earth, sky, this physics) and including this body and its flesh mind and five senses.

His is eden life , His Spirit, and to return to Him.

 

[Peterlag]

there are two laws: which represent two realms or natures.

the evil realm is sin and death - which is sin nature (cosmos, earth, sky, this physics) and including this body and its flesh mind and five senses.

His is eden life , His Spirit, and to return to Him.

The Christian does not have two natures.

 

[e v e]

The Christian does not have two natures.

sorry but you did not understand.

 

[Peterlag]

sorry but you did not understand.

I almost did, but my point is the Christian has a new nature.

 

[e v e]

I almost did, but my point is the Christian has a new nature.

i think meeting Him and being His
have been confused with 'a new nature'
but that is basically that His will be restored
to our glorified body at rapture which
was our nature before adam left God...

many souls of Him
including even in the OT
met Christ, have His promise
yet only at the end times , now
will all of us be restored

our situation since the fall is to be in a foreign land
but many get comfortable with it
and forget that and romanticize their own
ideas about being rescued from here
into 'I am saved already'...
and from there then begin to decorate
their prison cell... imagining it
'as made by God' when it's not.

Kierkegaard called this 'philistine christianity'...

yes it is sweet to see that i am His
and to remain expectant His return...
but still knowing that , its clear
what that is, is a promise
and not yet de facto accomplished
until Christ returns to get us.

 

[jeremiah1five]

that map displays but an earthly kingdom of the fallen reality, upon this current earth. It will cease and never be remembered.

That's correct.
Exactly what God promised Abraham in Genesis 15.

And then there is New Jerusalem coming down from God. Kingdom of heaven.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev. 21:2–3.

And Abraham and Abraham's seed lived happily ever after.

5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. Gen. 15:4–5.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. Rom. 11:26–27.

This means every Hebrew born from the seed of Abraham and Sarah. Everyone. But I think it is limited to those inheriting the Promise: Isaac, Jacob, and the children of Jacob/Israel. Everyone.

 

[Peterlag]

i think meeting Him and being His
have been confused with 'a new nature'
but that is basically that His will be restored
to our glorified body at rapture which
was our nature before adam left God...

many souls of Him
including even in the OT
met Christ, have His promise
yet only at the end times , now
will all of us be restored

our situation since the fall is to be in a foreign land
but many get comfortable with it
and forget that and romanticize their own
ideas about being rescued from here
into 'I am saved already'...
and from there then begin to decorate
their prison cell... imagining it
'as made by God' when it's not.

Kierkegaard called this 'philistine christianity'...

yes it is sweet to see that i am His
and to remain expectant His return...
but still knowing that , its clear
what that is, is a promise
and not yet de facto accomplished
until Christ returns to get us.

I'm still just not sure if I understand what you believe. Is it number 1 or 2...

1.) Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature. They believe they have two natures.

2.) The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.

 

[e v e]

I'm still just not sure if I understand what you believe. Is it number 1 or 2...

1.) Most Christians have been taught to believe that after salvation, they are still the same at their core, and they live the rest of their lives trying to restrain this old nature. They believe they have two natures.

2.) The old self is entirely obliterated once the spirit of Christ enters the Christian.

I'm giving you what i understand by terms... so it's more clear.

core = the soul from God.

salvation = a soul to have met Him and accepted Him is more correct. Thus no saved in the way you define it...

Self or old nature = the physical body and its natural mind.


Spirit of Christ? I will just say 'Christ' as your term makes no sense.

Answer

1 Before or after meeting Him a soul is still the same core but where before entirely dominated by a foreign entity and nature... After meeting Him the foreign nature is there still but now the soul is separated from it and distinguishable from it and listens to God not to that nature . Can the soul make a mistake still, yes.

2. If a soul is still in the flesh body and uses its natural mind then it , the foreign nature, is not entirely obliterated until meeting christ on the clouds and receiving our glorified body, after which the soul is restored to paradise and with God again face to face.

3. My conclusions cannot be flattened into yours since my 1 and 2 have entirely different meanings which do not correspond to your meanings and Since the spirit of Christ is not a synonym to His Holy Spirit.

 

[e v e]

you can see that the soul cannot correspond to T in tulip since the soul is the only thing in my response above belonging to God and made by God here and nothing He made is depraved. Only things of the satanic realm are depraved.

The foreign entity which is the Self, the carnal flesh mind , the natural man are indeed depraved - And again, foreign = is Not the soul. Yes even when apparently just doing calculus or any mundane thing. A demon talking can appear quite innocent and helpful by that and trick and guide a soul.

 

[e v e]

A confusion was arranged between the terms npsh and psuche. Which were wrongly deemed synonyms. This made it possible to posit the T of Tulip by Calvin and merge the two natures as if one nature. Thus making the leap to the wrong statement that the soul herself is depraved.

npsh is the soul made by God.

psuche is the carnal mind. It is a term the greek theology equates Only to the daemon of wisdom or the oversoul (since they had no individual soul concept!) What is a daemon of wisdom? An entity guiding the person. To use that term as synonym for soul is a big mistake.



psuche, greek theology term:
- disembodied
- not an individual soul but part of the 'one'
- the 'one' or god of the greeks called reason or Mind
- what we know from Him to be the carnal mind

npsh, hebrew term:
not meant to ever be disembodied
an individual soul made by God

 

[e v e]

Yes the soul is in a depraved situation or 'state' , because being made dependent on this flesh body and its natural mind .

And only God can restore us and bring us home.