Why we naturally HATE penal substitution

Tothalordbeallglory said:
On those feet my friend . The LORD is our hope and our salvation .
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Please take the time to read through my personal journey and recently updated study on this most important topic which led me out of PSA and Calvinism.

When we get the nature and character of God wrong it effects all other areas of doctrine. When we get God right our doctrines will line up with Gods nature and character. Theology is the study of God and good Theology should begin and end with Gods nature and character.

civic

Thread 'Why did Jesus say ‘My God, My God why have you forsaken me?'

In this study, we will answer the question: Why did Jesus Christ say, ‘My God, why have you forsaken me?’ (Psalm 22:1). What does this statement mean—and does it imply that the Father truly forsook the Son? We will examine what this reveals about the nature of God in the atonement. This will be a developing 7-part study as I continue to expand my research.
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brightfame52 said:
Why not Gods Holiness and Justice does it express ? You dont believe that saved persons sins, past, present and future were punished justly with the wage of death in Christ ?
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If you read this you will no longer be able to defend PSA.

civic

Thread 'Why did Jesus say ‘My God, My God why have you forsaken me?'

In this study, we will answer the question: Why did Jesus Christ say, ‘My God, why have you forsaken me?’ (Psalm 22:1). What does this statement mean—and does it imply that the Father truly forsook the Son? We will examine what this reveals about the nature of God in the atonement. This will be a developing 7-part study as I continue to expand my research.
  • Like
 
civic said:
If you read this you will no longer be able to defend PSA.

civic

Thread 'Why did Jesus say ‘My God, My God why have you forsaken me?'

In this study, we will answer the question: Why did Jesus Christ say, ‘My God, why have you forsaken me?’ (Psalm 22:1). What does this statement mean—and does it imply that the Father truly forsook the Son? We will examine what this reveals about the nature of God in the atonement. This will be a developing 7-part study as I continue to expand my research.
  • Like
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Is that your answer to my question ?
 
civic said:
Please take the time to read through my personal journey and recently updated study on this most important topic which led me out of PSA and Calvinism.

When we get the nature and character of God wrong it effects all other areas of doctrine. When we get God right our doctrines will line up with Gods nature and character. Theology is the study of God and good Theology should begin and end with Gods nature and character.

civic

Thread 'Why did Jesus say ‘My God, My God why have you forsaken me?'

In this study, we will answer the question: Why did Jesus Christ say, ‘My God, why have you forsaken me?’ (Psalm 22:1). What does this statement mean—and does it imply that the Father truly forsook the Son? We will examine what this reveals about the nature of God in the atonement. This will be a developing 7-part study as I continue to expand my research.
  • Like
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I have good news for you my friend .
But you gonna have to understand i expose all sin and error so do not get upset
when i bring this list .
Good news . I dont heed calvin peroid .
brace yourself this list is gonna get long .
I call it the FLEE from it list .
NAR REALM .
Calvin
Mormon
Jw
Sda
RCC
And anything and anyone connected to ecumeicalism .
So now allow me to explain what i am .
I am not methodist , baptist , catholic , and or denomination .
I am christain . SO i dont point to mens doctrines at all .
Not saying that all their doctrines were false . NO , not saying that .
But i am christain .
SO i dont point to men and or their doctrines of which i have found errors .
If you like to know who i point too .
ITS the FIRST FIVE LETTERS of CHRISTian . AND HIS WORDS and EVERY WORD OF GOD .
Real simple for me . JESUS and the bible . CANT GO: WRONG WITH THAT .
You dont know how long i have wept and wished and prayed TO GOD
that christendom would do JUST THAT . sure could have been one simple walk IFthey did .
But soon you all will be led to the lie . Breaks my heart to say it .
IF YOU or anyone else remains in anything connected in any way , in any shape , form or fashion
of ecumeincalism . TRUMP aint gonna save you , THE POPES wont etiher , the liberal realm wont
DONT RUN TO MAN . we better RUN TO JESUS .
Cause men of both sides and churches of all denominatoins and are connected to ecumeincalism
THEY ALL BEING duped . every last one of them .
Man gonna love to hear and to do what the heart of man loves to hear and to do .
JUST DONT EXPECT ME to JOIN IN
cause sheep gonna do and love to do , FOR THE LOVE OF GOD has been shed upon their hearts ,
WHAT JESUS SAID AND SAYS TO DO . and JESUS aint in the business of contradicting
the words of GOD . FRIEND HE IS THE WORD OF GOD . i hope that encouraged you so much
you do a somersault of joy . NOW get them away from anything ecumeincal NOW .
 
civic said:
Let’s set it
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You probably already know this .
But seeing i dont know IF you do or not
allow me to warn you about something .
DO NOT heed a word one outta that mans mouth .
HE has come after me
FOR PREACHING THE GOSPEL and saying YE MUST BELEIVE IN JESUS to be sa ved . HE calls that LEGALISM .
as if REMINDING FOLKS we must BELIEVE ON JESUS to be saved
IS LE GALISLM . oh i tried and i tried to help that man . But friend He aint heeding a word one .
 
civic said:
Let’s set it
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Friend if i even bring a tenth of the scrips that showed JESUS and later the apostels
TELLING and reminding all OF THE ABSOLUTE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON HIM
Poor ol brightfame GONNA BE DROWNED in it .
EVEN a tenth .
But he calls those who say YOU MUST BELEIVE ON HIM TO be saved , LEGALISTS
When i even brought the commandment of GOD
that john told the church HE called it p ointing to the law .
But here is the commandment of GOD that john wrote about
TO BELEIVE ON JESUS and to love one another .
HE hates with dire passion the reminder YE MUST BELEIVE .
Kinda odd .
IN other words , THE WAY HE BELEIVES would silence THE PREACHING OF THE VERY GOSPEL .
THIS ONE
THAT IF YOU BLEIEVE from the heart that GOD rose him from the dead
and confess him by mouth YOU shall be saved .
TO HIM , saying that is LEGALISM , its man doing something etc .
T hat fellow is lost .
and how do we know when one is lost .
WHEN whatever they think they know
Attacks anyone who says YE MUST BELEIVE ON JESUS to be saved ,
WHY IT DARN SURE AINT COMING FROM GOD .
BUT i am quite sure the devil . He the only one i know that would try and silence the gospel
of YE M UST believe . quite certain about that . cause it daern sure AINT COMING FROM GOD OR HIS SPIRIT .
 
civic said:
Let’s set it
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Youve seen it probably a million times, Im not the only one who has shown you such scriptures that set forth PSA Death of Christ. All you going to do is reject it. Isa 53:5

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

The word chastisement mûsār:
  1. discipline, chastening, correction
    1. discipline, correction
    2. chastening

Messianic and Eschatological Echoes

Isaiah 53:5 links מוּסָר with redemptive suffering: “The chastisement that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.” The Servant bears covenant discipline in place of the guilty, achieving peace and opening a path for renewed obedience. Eschatologically, Zechariah 13:9 (using the cognate verb) hints at a refined remnant responding to divine correction, previewing the final restoration when discipline has done its full work.

The word carries with it to punish

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
bind, chasten, chastise, correct, instruct, punish, reform, reprove,
A primitive root; to chastise, literally (with blows) or figuratively (with words); hence, to instruct -- bind, chasten, chastise, correct, instruct, punish, reform, reprove, sore, teach.

Then we have expositors saying:

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(5) He was wounded . . .—Bruised. Both words refer to the death which crowned the sufferings of the Servant. That also was vicarious.
The chastisement of our peace—i.e., the punishment which leads to peace, that word including, as elsewhere, every form of blessing. (Comp. the “reproof of life” in Proverbs 15:31.) In Hebrews 2:10; Hebrews 5:8-9, we have the thought which is the complement of this, that the chastisement was also an essential condition of the perfection of the sufferer.
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Barnes:

The chastisement of our peace - That is, the chastisement by which our peace is effected or secured was laid upon him; or, he took it upon himself,' and bore it, in order that we might have peace. Each word here is exceedingly important, in order to a proper estimate of the nature of the work performed by the Redeemer. The word 'chastisement' (מוּסר mûsâr), properly denotes the correction, chastisement, or punishment inflicted by parents on their children, designed to amend their faults Proverbs 22:15; Proverbs 23:13. It is applied also to the discipline and authority of kings Job 22:18; and to the discipline or correction of God Job 5:17; Hosea 5:2. Sometimes it means admonition or instruction, such as parents give to children, or God to human beings. It is well rendered by the Septuagint by Παιδεία Paideia; by Jerome, Disciplina. The word does not of necessity denote punishment, though it is often used in that sense.
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Matthew Poole's Commentary

The chastisement of our peace; those punishments by which our peace, i.e. our reconciliation to God, and salvation, or happiness, was to be purchased.

Was upon him; was laid upon him by God’s justice with his own consent.
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John Gill

the chastisement of our peace was upon him; that is, the punishment of our sins was inflicted on him, whereby our peace and reconciliation with God was made by him; for chastisement here does not design the chastisement of a father, and in love, such as the Lord chastises his people with; but an act of vindictive justice, and in wrath, taking vengeance on our sins, of our surety, whereby divine wrath is appeased, justice is satisfied, and peace is made:
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AI

​

In Isaiah 53:5, the term chastisement refers to the punishment or correction that is meant to bring about peace and well-being. It is a concept that has been used in various contexts, including the discipline of children by parents and the correction of kings by God. In the biblical context, it signifies the correction or punishment inflicted by God or a divine authority, designed to amend faults and secure peace. The chastisement of our peace in Isaiah 53:5 implies that the punishment He bore was meant to secure peace for those He died for. This concept is echoed in other scriptures, such as Hebrews 2:10 and Hebrews 5:8-9, which discuss the essential condition of the perfection of the sufferer.
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brightfame52 said:
Youve seen it probably a million times, Im not the only one who has shown you such scriptures that set forth PSA Death of Christ. All you going to do is reject it. Isa 53:5

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

The word chastisement mûsār:
  1. discipline, chastening, correction
    1. discipline, correction
    2. chastening

Messianic and Eschatological Echoes

Isaiah 53:5 links מוּסָר with redemptive suffering: “The chastisement that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.” The Servant bears covenant discipline in place of the guilty, achieving peace and opening a path for renewed obedience. Eschatologically, Zechariah 13:9 (using the cognate verb) hints at a refined remnant responding to divine correction, previewing the final restoration when discipline has done its full work.

The word carries with it to punish

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
bind, chasten, chastise, correct, instruct, punish, reform, reprove,
A primitive root; to chastise, literally (with blows) or figuratively (with words); hence, to instruct -- bind, chasten, chastise, correct, instruct, punish, reform, reprove, sore, teach.

Then we have expositors saying:


Barnes:



Matthew Poole's Commentary



John Gill



AI

​

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Everything above has been refuted and dismantled here

civic

Thread 'Why did Jesus say ‘My God, My God why have you forsaken me?'

In this study, we will answer the question: Why did Jesus Christ say, ‘My God, why have you forsaken me?’ (Psalm 22:1). What does this statement mean—and does it imply that the Father truly forsook the Son? We will examine what this reveals about the nature of God in the atonement. This will be a developing 7-part study as I continue to expand my research.
  • Like
 
civic said:
Please take the time to read through my personal journey and recently updated study on this most important topic which led me out of PSA and Calvinism.

When we get the nature and character of God wrong it effects all other areas of doctrine. When we get God right our doctrines will line up with Gods nature and character. Theology is the study of God and good Theology should begin and end with Gods nature and character.

civic

Thread 'Why did Jesus say ‘My God, My God why have you forsaken me?'

In this study, we will answer the question: Why did Jesus Christ say, ‘My God, why have you forsaken me?’ (Psalm 22:1). What does this statement mean—and does it imply that the Father truly forsook the Son? We will examine what this reveals about the nature of God in the atonement. This will be a developing 7-part study as I continue to expand my research.
  • Like
Click to expand...

Knowledge of The True and Living Elohim does not nor cannot ascend upwards.
 

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