Why we naturally HATE penal substitution

[civic]

Jesus took upon Himself at the cross the wrath and judgment due to uis due to being sinners before a Holy God

Not true. I have yet to meet any calvinist/reformed person who will read my post in the link I sent below and engage my arguments and challenge me. Why don't you be the first and give it a try. Its a claim you cannot defend and I have dismantled as an argument.

Thread 'Why did Jesus say ‘My God, My God why have you forsaken me?'

Jul 13, 2023

In this study, we will answer the question: Why did Jesus Christ say, ‘My God, why have you forsaken me?’ (Psalm 22:1). What does this statement mean—and does it imply that the Father truly forsook the Son? We will examine what this reveals about the nature of God in the atonement. This will be a developing 7-part study as I continue to expand my research.

• civic
• Replies: 490
• Forum: Penal Substitutionary Atonement

• 

 

[civic]

Please give your defense @JesusFan , I would love for someone who disagrees to defend their position against the biblical one I have presented. Its bulletproof so give it your best shot brother.

 

[brightfame52]

I actually prove its not here :

Thread 'Why did Jesus say ‘My God, My God why have you forsaken me?'

Jul 13, 2023

In this study, we will answer the question: Why did Jesus Christ say, ‘My God, why have you forsaken me?’ (Psalm 22:1). What does this statement mean—and does it imply that the Father truly forsook the Son? We will examine what this reveals about the nature of God in the atonement. This will be a developing 7-part study as I continue to expand my research.

• civic
• Replies: 490
• Forum: Penal Substitutionary Atonement

• 

Yes the Son was forsaken as for the sins of the elect were being punished by Him, the cup of Gods wrath was poured out on Him and He was left desolate, all for the elects sake,

it is prophesied in this messianic Psalm 22:1

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Now God the Father never hated the Son, He always Loved Him, yet this was a matter of Justice, Zech called it a sword 13:7


Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

Now sword in justice can also mean wrath, but its just wrath for example Rom 13:1-5

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

 

[civic]

Yes the Son was forsaken as for the sins of the elect were being punished by Him, the cup of Gods wrath was poured out on Him and He was left desolate, all for the elects sake,

it is prophesied in this messianic Psalm 22:1

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Now God the Father never hated the Son, He always Loved Him, yet this was a matter of Justice, Zech called it a sword 13:7


Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

Now sword in justice can also mean wrath, but its just wrath for example Rom 13:1-5

that is the view held by the mid evil theologians who killed believers and persecuted those who opposed their view inflicting their man-made divine wrath and justice upon the opposition with penalty hence PSA was formulated - they transferred that ungodly behavior to the bible creating the false doctrine known as PSA. they created a false god made into their own image and likeness.

 

[DavidTree]

Please give your defense @JesusFan , I would love for someone who disagrees to defend their position against the biblical one I have presented. Its bulletproof so give it your best shot brother.

Yes the Son was forsaken as for the sins of the elect were being punished by Him, the cup of Gods wrath was poured out on Him and He was left desolate, all for the elects sake,

it is prophesied in this messianic Psalm 22:1

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Now God the Father never hated the Son, He always Loved Him, yet this was a matter of Justice, Zech called it a sword 13:7


Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.

Now sword in justice can also mean wrath, but its just wrath for example Rom 13:1-5

What do we have here???

We have CLEAR Scripture denoting God's Judgment upon CHRIST/Cross for the "sins of the world".

Question: Could/Can God's Judgment be different from God's Wrath???

@JesusFan is included in the Quest

 

[brightfame52]

that is the view held by the mid evil theologians who killed believers and persecuted those who opposed their view inflicting their man-made divine wrath and justice upon the opposition with penalty hence PSA was formulated - they transferred that ungodly behavior to the bible creating the false doctrine known as PSA. they created a false god made into their own image and likeness.

Its the view taught in the sacred scriptures and you reject

 

[brightfame52]

We have CLEAR Scripture denoting God's Judgment upon CHRIST/Cross for the "sins of the world".

Not the world, the Sheep

Question: Could/Can God's Judgment be different from God's Wrath???

I just showed the correlation

 

[civic]

What do we have here???

We have CLEAR Scripture denoting God's Judgment upon CHRIST/Cross for the "sins of the world".

Question: Could/Can God's Judgment be different from God's Wrath???

@JesusFan is included in the Quest

You are welcome to brother in this thread

Thread 'Why did Jesus say ‘My God, My God why have you forsaken me?'

Jul 13, 2023

In this study, we will answer the question: Why did Jesus Christ say, ‘My God, why have you forsaken me?’ (Psalm 22:1). What does this statement mean—and does it imply that the Father truly forsook the Son? We will examine what this reveals about the nature of God in the atonement. This will be a developing 7-part study as I continue to expand my research.

• civic
• Replies: 490
• Forum: Penal Substitutionary Atonement

• 

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

What do we have here???

We have CLEAR Scripture denoting God's Judgment upon CHRIST/Cross for the "sins of the world".

Question: Could/Can God's Judgment be different from God's Wrath???

@JesusFan is included in the Quest

whatever you do .........
Let all hear this
whatever you do , DO NOT JOIN hands with ( edited for discussing another poster instead of the argument )
FOR REMINDING ALL OF THE ABOSLUTE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS TO BE SAVED .
the man thinks that is preaching works , something man has to do .
WELL he is half right , MAN MUST BLEIEVE ON JESUS TO BE SAVED .
I dont even think calvin had agreed with that man . T hough i am very v ery wary of calvin myself .
So allow me some parting words .
WHAT DID paul and silas tell the jailor .
WHEN the jailor had asked them v ery clearly and very cleary indeed the most important question
of his entire life .
WHICH was this
SIRS what must I DO to be SAVED . Did they say , WELL you cant do nothing cause if we say
YOU have to DO , then we preach works and mans ability .
OR did they simply say THE SAME THING i been saying for years .
And that is
YE MUST ABSOLUTELY BLEIEVE ON JESUS THE CHRIST to be saved . that ol brightfame has no idea
what he speaks of my friend .
AND YEAH , i already KNOW by g race , by revelation , ITS BY THE SPIRIT WE call HIM LORD .
Brightfame dont even know how to explain what li ttle truth he even thinks he knows .
AS IF me t elling anyone they must BELIEVE ON JESUS to be saved is somehow errenous .
The problem with most folks is
What li ttle bible they think they know , THEY only know enough bible to make them a danger
to themselves and to others . too many been sitting under men david . far too many
have learned twisted doctrines of men . I say BIBLE TIME . GOD is with the sheep
And I KNOW HE can give us understanding of that which HE INSPIRED IN THAT BIBLE .
I dont need mens hermenuitics and or greek and methods of men TO LEARN .
I DO NEED , ONLY GOD , HIS SPIRIT and TO TEST ALL MEN against that which is written .
AND I SUGGEST we all do the same . SO
Let GOD be true but every man a liar . TOO many trust in men , NOT GOD . And it shows too .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

 

[DavidTree]

You are welcome to brother in this thread

Thread 'Why did Jesus say ‘My God, My God why have you forsaken me?'

Jul 13, 2023

In this study, we will answer the question: Why did Jesus Christ say, ‘My God, why have you forsaken me?’ (Psalm 22:1). What does this statement mean—and does it imply that the Father truly forsook the Son? We will examine what this reveals about the nature of God in the atonement. This will be a developing 7-part study as I continue to expand my research.

• civic
• Replies: 490
• Forum: Penal Substitutionary Atonement

• 

Dann'ys health and work have us busy - but i will look

 

[civic]

Dann'ys health and work have us busy - but i will look

Prayers

 

[DavidTree]

Not the world, the Sheep

I just showed the correlation

@civic

Let's keep digging for the Truth Diamonds in Scripture.

i can show you where there are two separate judgments.
a. unto SALVATION
b. unto WRATH

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

What do we have here???

We have CLEAR Scripture denoting God's Judgment upon CHRIST/Cross for the "sins of the world".

Question: Could/Can God's Judgment be different from God's Wrath???

@JesusFan is included in the Quest

And he was numbered with the trangressors .
THOUGH HE himself had done no wrong .
yes the RIGHTEOUS SERVANT BARE THEIR INQUITIES
and GOD laid upon him the punishments of us . Issiah fifty three is pretty clear about this ONE
who bare Our iniquites and took on our punishment .
Now i have a trivia question for us all .
ARE and IS THE JUDGMENT OF GOD , HIS WRATH a RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT .
and the answer is
YOU BET .
DID we deserve HIS WRATH .
And the answer is YOU BET .
AND THAT IS WHY this wee little sheep IS SO VERY THANKFUL TO HIM
that rather than HIS RIGHTEOUS JUDG MENT OF WRATH AGAINST ME
I recieved GRACE . JESUS DID ALL that was necessary FOR THIS SHEEP . well for us all .
AND THUS HE and HIS WORDS and the Words inspired of the H OLY GOD
The SPIRIT of CHRIST that was even in them long long ago and had foretold even OF HIS FIRST COMING
TRUTH GETS POINTED TO ON MY WATCH . JESUS THE CHRIST
and no LIE is of the truth . SO , I SAY NO TO THE HO and her ecumeinal cup of whoredomes .
That harlot will save none and damn all WHO LOVED HER LIE she called love .
MARK them words . CAUSE ON the day of the LORD many are gonna wail david . Wail .
TRUTH . if a person has a problem with TRUTH , BELIEVE ME they HAVE A PROBLEM WITH GOD , WITH CHRIST .
And if any has a problem with THEM WORDS
OH THEY DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HE WHO INSPIRED THEM WORDS and IS THE TRUTH .
JESUS came to TESETIFY of THE TRUTH . not a well favored harlots fake dead end GOD and CHRIST DENYING love .
cause GOD DONT LIE , CHRIST DONT LIE , THE SPIRIT DONT LIE . but a whore sure does .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

@civic

Let's keep digging for the Truth Diamonds in Scripture.

i can show you where there are two separate judgments.
a. unto SALVATION
b. unto WRATH

but this you have that YOU HATE the doctrine of the nicolations which i also hate .
Many cannot grasp
nor can they understand why this sheep has hate against ecumeincal doctrine .
Believing it to be wrong to hate false doctrine .
But friend it is NOT wrong .
The fear of the LORD is to hate every evil way . IS THAT NOT WRITTEN .
Would not the HOLY GHOST have put a LOVE for the truth
and a hate for false doctrine upon a sheeps heart . Oh but he do david .
And would not a seasoned man have warned all against that which is false .
exposing and not allowing false ones to seduce the people . OH but he would .
In fact EVEN in revelation we see where a church was being reprimanded , warned , warned BY GOD
for even ALLOWING a false prophtess to teach and to seduce his people .
SO this sheep is not wrong for exposing that ecuemincal harlot and her daughters or any who do her work .
her work of REBELLION against the ONLY GOD that could have saved them . Enough with the judge not
name not generation that now only judges THE VERY WORDS OF GOD as hate speech .
YEAH . By means of a harlots love , THE VERY GOD , HIS CHRIST , HIS WORDS
are now on trial in many churches and are being condmened as HATE SPEECH . TALK about REBELLION .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

@civic

Let's keep digging for the Truth Diamonds in Scripture.

i can show you where there are two separate judgments.
a. unto SALVATION
b. unto WRATH

we better all watch out . Even this nentanyahu
IS deceiving . I SEEN what he said . I know what they are up to david .
THEY are gonna have us to BELEIVE the religoins all serve the same GOD .
And anything that wont conform
is gonna be labled the same type of zealot as is IRAN . I SEEN what he said david .
ISEEN IT . they are about to slam HOME the plan of anti christ
These leaders of all sides are fleecing the heck out of us all .
THIS IS about to give RISE to the total solution of ANTI CHRIST .
BOTH sides will agree . And any who does not will be seen as the zealot .
NO less dangeous than a muslim terroist . MARK Them words too .
THE ECUMENICAL WHORE infiltrated BOTH THE LIBERAL and EVANGELICAL realms
ALL false religoins
BOTH sides of politics . The devil is wise david . HE KNOWS HOW to decieve any group and any person .
THE ONLY WAY TO BE freed from HIS POWER , IS BY FAITH IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
ALL ELSE is going under the lie david . EVERYONE not in the lambs b ook of life WILL BUY IT . EVERYONE
not in the lambs book of life WILL worship the beast beliving the lie . WE should have STU CK
to the bible , TO THE ONE AND ONLY GOSPEL that can save , TO EVERY WORD OF GOD .
I pray many repent fast before its forever too late .
CAUSE IT IS WELL written WHO recieves STRONG DELUSION .
AND why they recieved it .
THEY , THEY REJECTED THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH whereby the might be saved
AND FOR THAT Cause , THAT CAUSE , GOD SENDS STRONG DELUSOIN so they believe A LIE and are damned .
IT AINT GODS Fault . ITS THEIRS .