Why we naturally HATE penal substitution

[Eternally-Grateful]

We weren't a human in the womb??!

Had god breathed the "breath of life" to you yet?

or does that happen at birth?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

EG
You should know I always respond to your posts. Can't contribute much right now.
I will ASAP.
Just quick this:
I've posted tens of verses requiring good works.

and I have posted tens of verses that do not require words.

which puts the bible at odds with itself.

You post the above which is about believing and does not even reject good works at all.

it is absent of good works.. because good works are not required to recieve what those verses are offering through the grace of God.

they are the result of receiving what is offered.

So, leaving aside what the word believe means in Greek...which settles the debate on good works anyway....

Let me ask you this:
If you could post verses on believing,,,,,
And I could post verses on doing good works...
HOW do we reconcile?

you posted many on works. I posted many on no belief

so how do you reconcile these passages

I have shown you numerous times how I reconcile them, can you show me how you reconcile them. because I can not see it

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

The Bible can prove Jesus was in Mary's womb before He was born. John the Baptist recognized Jesus as the Messiah even before his birth. In the Gospel of Luke, when Mary, pregnant with Jesus, visited Elizabeth, John leaped in Elizabeth's womb upon Mary's greeting, demonstrating his recognition of Jesus. This event is described as a miraculous sign and foreshadows the special role John would later play in preparing the way for Jesus.

43 And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord.”
Luke 1:43–45.

This event is a recognition of the presence of the unborn Jesus within Mary.

Yes Jesus body was in the womb

was God the son in the womb?

And the HS was in Mary's cousins womb

do you remember when you were in your mothers womb? What functions did you have, what purpose did you serve?

what about the breath of live. when did that occur. and how could it occur in the womb?

again, this is speculation. which we are both doing.

and its kind of nuts we are even arguing this because it is not salvic. I think what is more important is why the HS had to fertilize the seed.. why was Jesus not touched by man.

 

[civic]

Yes Jesus body was in the womb

was God the son in the womb?

And the HS was in Mary's cousins womb

do you remember when you were in your mothers womb? What functions did you have, what purpose did you serve?

what about the breath of live. when did that occur. and how could it occur in the womb?

again, this is speculation. which we are both doing.

and its kind of nuts we are even arguing this because it is not salvic. I think what is more important is why the HS had to fertilize the seed.. why was Jesus not touched by man.

Yes God the Son was in the womb. Incarnation 101- Jesus is a Divine Person, He is not a human person. He has a human nature. God the Son experiened the womb like every other person has their beginning at conception. Just because you cannot or will not try and wrap your mind around this does not make it untrue or impossible. Its a miracle which defies human logic, reasoning etc......

We cannot explain how God created ex nihilo but its a biblical fact.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes God the Son was in the womb. Incarnation 101- Jesus is a Divine Person, He is not a human person.

actually he was both divine and human.

He was not only divine.

He has a human nature. God the Son experiened the womb like every other person has their beginning at conception. Just because you cannot or will not try and wrap your mind around this does not make it untrue or impossible. Its a miracle which defies human logic, reasoning etc......

so does God entering a 1 celled formation before it even became a fetus..

We cannot explain how God created ex nihilo but its a biblical fact.

yes it is.

God entered a human body bore by Mary and conceived of the HS.

God, who is eternal. Entered a mortal body, so he could redeem us from our sins

 

[civic]

actually he was both divine and human.

He was not only divine.

so does God entering a 1 celled formation before it even became a fetus..

yes it is.

God entered a human body bore by Mary and conceived of the HS.

God, who is eternal. Entered a mortal body, so he could redeem us from our sins

Hypostatic Union 101 -the 2 natures in Christ. He is a Divine Person, the 2nd Person of the Trinity who took on our human nature. He is One Divine Person having a human nature. He is not 2 persons.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Hypostatic Union 101 -the 2 natures in Christ. He is a Divine Person, the 2nd Person of the Trinity who took on our human nature. He is One Divine Person having a human nature. He is not 2 persons.

I am one person

I have a human body, which will die
and I have a soul, which is me

Jesus was one person

He had a human Body created by Mary and the HS, and he had a soul. which was himself. (God the son)

I never said he was 2 persons. where did you get this from?

 

[praise_yeshua]

actually he was both divine and human.

He was not only divine.

so does God entering a 1 celled formation before it even became a fetus..

yes it is.

God entered a human body bore by Mary and conceived of the HS.

God, who is eternal. Entered a mortal body, so he could redeem us from our sins

Give some thought to what you're saying......

The human body of Christ limited the Hypostatic Union. It is why Christ "grew" and "matured". His human body limited Him. However, those limitations grew less and less over time.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I never said he was 2 persons. where did you get this from?

From what you're saying. You compared yourself to the Hypostatic Union when you're not exactly like Christ.

 

[civic]

I am one person

I never said he was 2 persons. where did you get this from?

Then who was in Mary's womb ?

 

[praise_yeshua]

What purpose did God serve e to enter a fetus?

Unity with the entire experience of mankind.

It is amazing to me how you insist upon "making Christ human", yet miss the simplest of truths to that end.

 

[Doug Brents]

Give some thought to what you're saying......

The human body of Christ limited the Hypostatic Union. It is why Christ "grew" and "matured". His human body limited Him. However, those limitations grew less and less over time.

No, they did not grow less and less. Before His death, Jesus did not do anything of His own power. He did EVERYTHING (supernatural) that He did through the Holy Spirit.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Then who was in Mary's womb ?

It was too hard for God........

 

[civic]

It was too hard for God........

It sounds like this may be the case for some to believe.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No, they did not grow less and less. Before His death, Jesus did not do anything of His own power. He did EVERYTHING (supernatural) that He did through the Holy Spirit.

All the power of Divinity exists in Christ without the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit wasn't joined in the womb with Christ until Christ was baptized. You see the Holy Trinity in the baptism of Christ in Jordan.

To be clear, I'm not saying that the fellowship of Holy Trinity wasn't from the moment of Christ's conception in the womb of Mary.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Then who was in Mary's womb ?

The Human body of Christ.

Just like My Human Body was in my mothers womb, Until God breathed the "breath of life"

 

[praise_yeshua]

The Human body of Christ.

Just like My Human Body was in my mothers womb, Until God breathed the "breath of life"

Ah. You must be an abortionist......

Adam experienced such. Eve experienced such. You didn't.

 

[civic]

The Human body of Christ.

Just like My Human Body was in my mothers womb, Until God breathed the "breath of life"

Persons are in the womb, not natures void of "personhood " Its where every human gets their beginning is at the moment of conception.

 

[Doug Brents]

All the power of Divinity exists in Christ without the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit wasn't joined in the womb with Christ until Christ was baptized.

Jesus emptied Himself of His glory, the independent use of His power, and much more. He was still God, and still divine, but He subordinated Himself to the point that all that He could only do what we humans can do. Just as the Apostles were able to do things supernaturally through the Holy Spirit, Jesus did as well.

You see the Holy Trinity in the baptism of Christ in Jordan.

Absolutely you do.

To be clear, I'm not saying that the fellowship of Holy Trinity wasn't from the moment of Christ's conception in the womb of Mary.

Neither am I.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus emptied Himself of His glory,

Nonsense. That is your interpretation of a Greek word you don't understand.

the independent use of His power, and much more.

Nonsense. Christ chose not to use the power He had. Christ was "transfigured" before the disciples. God has always chosen the "when, where and how" of expressing His power.

Remember when Jesus spoke of the lily? You should change your opinion of what "power" actually is. You see "power" like a man seeking to conquer others.

Luk 12:27 Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

He was still God, and still divine, but He subordinated Himself to the point that all that He could only do what we humans can do. Just as the Apostles were able to do things supernaturally through the Holy Spirit, Jesus did as well.

Does the word "Master" mean anything to you? Jesus did many things only HE... could do. Do I really need to start listing them....