so what's your point
Why I don’t believe or accept the trinity.
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
To point to the truth to what brings about eternal life within a person, which is to know God and the one whom he had sent is important.
However it’s only important to those who deem it is important… because I’ll be the only one on here for the most part sharing why I disagree with it, and my points… but they may be from me myself and not the spirit of Yahavah at all…
Who knows why I tend to personally to do what I get to, but it’s not something really respected, and is something that people really believe you must believe in it…
Or you are deemed unfit…
It’s like this story I hear of this man who was taught Calvinism whole life and now he worked and sat at home and drank some because Yahavah only elects certain people while the rest of the world is doomed to eternal fire and flames that lick the skin of flesh…. What’s the point in even seeking him? While even knowing the scriptures to quote to “prove a point” but was the point truth?
What is truth?
Maurice
Member
Well their is this:
Luke 3:22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”
Lets consider the mysteries of the Godhead shall we? Notice that there seems to be an order of authority concerning the three persons in the trinity. Keep in mind that while all three are the same in properties and attributes, and equal in power and glory, it appears that the Father is recognized as the ultimate authority. “And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s” (1 Corinthians 3:23).
“But I would have you know, that … the head of Christ is God” 1 Corinthians 11:3
The Son constantly receives His glory, power, throne, and prerogatives as Judge from the Father. John 3:35 also John 5:22
Indeed, it was God the Father that “gave” the Son. In fact, while it might not be wrong, we are never told to pray to Jesus or the Spirit—but instead to the Father in the name of the Son. Yet just because the Father seems to have supreme authority, it does not in any way diminish from the divinity of Jesus and the Spirit. All three are still God.
Among the three members of the Godhead, we do not see a clamoring for preeminence, vying for recognition, or reveling in power. Instead, the exact opposite is true.
In fact, the Father, Son, and Spirit always seem to be trying to outgive and glorify each other. The Father wants to glorify the Son. The Son lives to glorify the Father, and the Spirit lives to glorify the Father and Son. John 17:1
Luke 3:22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”
Lets consider the mysteries of the Godhead shall we? Notice that there seems to be an order of authority concerning the three persons in the trinity. Keep in mind that while all three are the same in properties and attributes, and equal in power and glory, it appears that the Father is recognized as the ultimate authority. “And ye are Christ’s; and Christ is God’s” (1 Corinthians 3:23).
“But I would have you know, that … the head of Christ is God” 1 Corinthians 11:3
The Son constantly receives His glory, power, throne, and prerogatives as Judge from the Father. John 3:35 also John 5:22
Indeed, it was God the Father that “gave” the Son. In fact, while it might not be wrong, we are never told to pray to Jesus or the Spirit—but instead to the Father in the name of the Son. Yet just because the Father seems to have supreme authority, it does not in any way diminish from the divinity of Jesus and the Spirit. All three are still God.
Among the three members of the Godhead, we do not see a clamoring for preeminence, vying for recognition, or reveling in power. Instead, the exact opposite is true.
In fact, the Father, Son, and Spirit always seem to be trying to outgive and glorify each other. The Father wants to glorify the Son. The Son lives to glorify the Father, and the Spirit lives to glorify the Father and Son. John 17:1
Maurice
Member
I believe he took the Fifth Amendment, as he does have the right not to incriminate himself.
Believe
Active member
Jesus Is God there's no doubt about it.
As we compare Scripture definitions for God with the Bible record of Jesus, we see the characteristics of Jehovah are also ascribed to Jesus. Note these powerful examples:
♦ He is self-existent (John 1:1–4; 14:6); only God is self-existent (Psalm 90:2).
♦ Jesus defines Himself as eternal. “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty” (Revelation 1:8).
♦ He is, and has, eternal life (1 John 5:11, 12, 20).
♦ He is all-powerful (Revelation 1:8).
♦ He created all things (John 1:3). “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). “For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him” (Colossians 1:16 NKJV).
♦ The Father even calls Jesus God. “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom” (Hebrews 1:8).
♦ Jesus is able to forgive sin (Luke 5:20, 21); The Bible says only God can forgive sin (Isaiah 43:25).
♦ Jesus accepted worship that according to the Ten Commandments is reserved only for the Almighty (Matthew 14:33). “And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, ‘All hail.’ And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him” (Matthew 28:9). Upon seeing the risen Savior, the converted skeptic, Thomas, confessed, “My LORD and my God!” (John 20:26–29).
♦ Even the angels worship Jesus. “And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him” (Hebrews 1:6).
♦ The Scriptures also teach that only God knows the thoughts of a man’s heart (1 Kings 8:39). Yet Jesus consistently knew what people were thinking, “for he knew what was in man” (John 2:25). “Nathanael said to Him, ‘How do You know me?’ Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you’ ” (John 1:48 NKJV).
♦ Through the Spirit, Jesus is omnipresent. “Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (Matthew 28:20 NKJV). “For I am with you, and no one will attack you to hurt you; for I have many people in this city” (Acts 18:10 NKJV).
♦ He has power to give life, and even resurrected Himself. “No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again” (John 10:18). “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live” (John 11:25).
Therefore, by considering the primary definitions of God, and seeing that Jesus fits every one of those definitions, obviously, Jesus must be eternal God.
www.moodybible.org
As we compare Scripture definitions for God with the Bible record of Jesus, we see the characteristics of Jehovah are also ascribed to Jesus. Note these powerful examples:
♦ He is self-existent (John 1:1–4; 14:6); only God is self-existent (Psalm 90:2).
♦ Jesus defines Himself as eternal. “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty” (Revelation 1:8).
♦ He is, and has, eternal life (1 John 5:11, 12, 20).
♦ He is all-powerful (Revelation 1:8).
♦ He created all things (John 1:3). “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). “For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him” (Colossians 1:16 NKJV).
♦ The Father even calls Jesus God. “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom” (Hebrews 1:8).
♦ Jesus is able to forgive sin (Luke 5:20, 21); The Bible says only God can forgive sin (Isaiah 43:25).
♦ Jesus accepted worship that according to the Ten Commandments is reserved only for the Almighty (Matthew 14:33). “And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, ‘All hail.’ And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him” (Matthew 28:9). Upon seeing the risen Savior, the converted skeptic, Thomas, confessed, “My LORD and my God!” (John 20:26–29).
♦ Even the angels worship Jesus. “And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him” (Hebrews 1:6).
♦ The Scriptures also teach that only God knows the thoughts of a man’s heart (1 Kings 8:39). Yet Jesus consistently knew what people were thinking, “for he knew what was in man” (John 2:25). “Nathanael said to Him, ‘How do You know me?’ Jesus answered and said to him, ‘Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you’ ” (John 1:48 NKJV).
♦ Through the Spirit, Jesus is omnipresent. “Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (Matthew 28:20 NKJV). “For I am with you, and no one will attack you to hurt you; for I have many people in this city” (Acts 18:10 NKJV).
♦ He has power to give life, and even resurrected Himself. “No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again” (John 10:18). “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live” (John 11:25).
Therefore, by considering the primary definitions of God, and seeing that Jesus fits every one of those definitions, obviously, Jesus must be eternal God.
Deity of Jesus Christ | Moody Bible Institute
The Bible directly states that Jesus is God and is God's Son, the second person of the Trinity. Here is what God's Word says about the deity of Christ.
www.moodybible.org
civic
Well-known member
Ya think lolI believe he took the Fifth Amendment, as he does have the right not to incriminate himself.
What about it? It was a sign of a dove… not a human… but Yahavah had to interact with Israel, on the mountain with thunders and lighting, he guided them by a cloud that gave light at night… which was a manifestation which Yahavah was to produce in order for the people to know that He was Yahavah… this sign here was to know the one know as the Messiah had come.
While you can quote a lot of scripture, I could to concerning the things Yeshua had stated and others… some people desire to suggest that John claims that Yeshua is the True God… when He is really a representative of Yahavah, by being his Word… idk why people don’t understand this or ignore this… Yeshua was the Word of God that created…. But it all came from Yahavah… which people downplay, just as much as Yeshua never struggling and everything was just a breeze for him, and go on to some other route of the so called “Gospel” man deems appropriate to believe in order to be right with God… when the Gospel is …
The death, burial, and resurrection of the one whom Yahavah deems afterwards the only Begotten Son…
Idk if people can understand that …
1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
From and through are two different things…
John 16:28
I came from the Father and entered the world; now I am leaving the world and going back to the Father.
I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Where was Yeshua in the beginning…
John 1:1
How is the Word of God, Yahavah? By being his expressing heart… do you notice that through the good news friend?
How Yeshua portrayed God as a man, in perfect unity with his Father and the Holy Spirit of His Father helping him, to be that man which had free choice and to do the will of God?
No other one has been successful… he was the image of God by being the Word of God with the Holy Spirit and communion with His Father…
But that doesn’t make him his Father in the sense as though he is above him. Or even equal to him… because…
John 14:28
You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.
Is Jesus wrong here? He must be everyone considers him equal with God just because the Father spoke through him? Is that my problem? Or their own probably? Cause he definitely from above, and we are from beneath…
”Then the end will come. Christ will destroy all rulers, authorities, and powers. Then he will give the kingdom to God the Father. Christ must rule until God puts all enemies under his control. The last enemy to be destroyed will be death. As the Scriptures say, “God put everything under his control.” When it says that “everything” is put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself. God is the one putting everything under Christ’s control. After everything has been put under Christ, then the Son himself will be put under God. God is the one who put everything under Christ. And Christ will be put under God so that God will be the complete ruler over everything.“
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 ERV
How do people come up with Yeshua being equal as God is beyond me… I don’t get it… and I really do believe and see Yeshua as my Lord… despite my own life being extremely intolerable for some people which is just free information given just because I’m not worried about how people see me or think of me when it comes to these things…
You can consider what is found here in scripture and reject it… I’ve seen many times people try to correct me via trinity doctrine but no information concerning any of that makes me love Yahavah or his son and more than what effort I afford into that relationship…
I did not die for you.
God, did not die for you. Why would he have to!
His Word was silenced for three days while in the heart of the earth.
And Yahavah by the Spirit of Yahavah rose his Word up from the dead…
If this isn’t the Gospel in a nutshell like Paul said. I hope Yahavah goes ahead and takes me out, because he still continues to give and many people the breathe of life as they wake up in this world… and those who find the Word, whom came, whom is truth, the say, and the life and come to truth…
The Son will set them free, and you and others rejections concerning the topics of why I don’t believe it doesn’t matter…
The Son set them free, they don’t need to be corrected, because Yahavah will prune those who are his and abide in the vine…
But alas.
What is truth?
Deity of Jesus Christ | Moody Bible Institute
The Bible directly states that Jesus is God and is God's Son, the second person of the Trinity. Here is what God's Word says about the deity of Christ.
Something set up like this without going and seeking for oneself is a cause for concern… is it all really true? What is true after all? Only the Son can set a person free in truth…
Believe
Active member
We do have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. The third member of the trinity.
Myself I'm a going and seeking kind of guy, been doing it for 35 years. The reason they set it up like it is...is to help you go and dig deeper. That's why they give you all the scriptures so that you can go look them up and make your own decision With the guidance of the holy spirit.
So you have the word which is Jesus the second member of the trinity and you have the holy spirit guiding and directing you in the truth of the word therefore there should be no cause for concern.
Overjoyed
Member
Works for me. The Holy Spirit is God:
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost? ...Thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. (Acts 5:3-4)
Now the Lord is that Spirit. (2 Corinthians 3:17)
“The Lord” here refers to “the LORD” in the Old Testament verse (Exodus 34:34) Paul had just quoted in the previous verse (2 Corinthians 3:16).
Maurice
Member
the members of the Trinity are deeply interrelated, or mutually indwell one another (perichôrêsis), and thus have a necessary and unbreakable oneness. But the oneness of God needs further clarification. Even though human beings share the same human nature, they exist separately and distinctly from one another. The members of the Trinity, however, are inseparably related.
Where does that come from, that it’s certified that the Holy Spirit is part of the club called the trinity? I don’t doubt you as someone who genuinely believes in the one whom God rose from the dead by his Spirit.
Okay… can’t say anything for myself. Just round the block a time or so.
What? Oh you’re talking about that website. It’s cool, you more welcome to share, I like this website called www.cult.com. Cult stands for something if you wanna know you can ask. Anyway no one should ever go there or listen or consider anything that man says, and people need to go to the source of information which can be in Large Print or Super Giant Print… and then as a 55 year or woman read that thing out loud then they will hear what Yahavah has to say, for sure! May take a couple days, years, decades, but a little time spent reading that Bible is so healthy for the spirit by those who seek Yahava worshipping in spirit and truth, from there those who seek out are rewarded. By a great life? Not necessarily, but a spiritually rewarding life which will be given in the next life which will be concerning the spiritual housing or ‘’mansion’ which will given by Yahavah, who is a giver of good things. Even have to consider the resurrection of the condemnation as bad it sounds it was what they desired? Thoughtful one he is.
Reading the thing is just as good.
Where do you find anywhere in the Bible where Jesus is the second member of the trinity? I would like for you to find that for me in the Bible aside from what people say is “Godhead” when I think of this I think of Yahavah and his heart… which expression came by and through His Word, which became born of spirit and flesh… whom had the Holy Spirit of Yahavah with him to hold back the temptations Yeshua had faced.. within the flesh he was by merit of God with him, and them, and us because people can know they are in God and Yahavah is in them by virtue of his spirit he gives by love… (defined in 1 Corinthians 13.) Yeshua was the love that he had for us all, and his Word willingly chose to do what his Father who sent him, wanted…
1 Corinthians 3:16
Don’t you realize that all of you together are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God lives in you?
1 John 4:16
And we have known and believed the love that God hath for us. God is love, and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
It’s good to think for yourself and never follow after anyone though you can consider what they say but if one doesn’t go and do their own work, and rely on the work of others, are they really building on the foundation of the Lord Jesus, who was the Logos of God? Some things in this life have to burned down and towers of buildings falling over concerning our own ideas and perceptions and not what is presented as what one should do, but is not required or asked to do…
That is your choice. I have no gun to no one’s head.
Can you tell me where I was not clear? There is no teaching by Jesus to believe he is the member of the trinity club…
I’m not mocking you… you just can not really prove anything about it… you gotta try to justify it.
Maurice
Member
Is what you originally said.
Reply was:
Luke 3:22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”
Then in your next post you want to change it.
Bodily form would be flesh and bone. So you're changing it which makes your comments are unreliable if they can change whenever they put you in a bad light.
That's what about it.
Maurice
Member
You must not read the Bible because Paul clearly explains that.
Maurice
Member
Paul’s teaching in Romans 1, where he makes it clear that God has revealed Himself through the creation to every human being and that this revelation is not obscure. Rather, it is in the Greek phaneros and in the Latin manifestum—it is manifest, it is clear.
The judgment that Paul expresses in Romans 1 is this: “Knowing God, they refused to honor Him as God, and they were not grateful.” This is the basis for the universal indictment of the whole human race under the wrath of God. The one excuse that is taken away is ignorance. On the judgment day, no one will be able to plead ignorance of God, because He has revealed Himself, and that revelation gets through. The problem is that fallen man refuses to acknowledge what he knows to be true.
Now, how does all of that influence our defense of theism? God has proven himself to be who he is, our job is to share it with others.
The judgment that Paul expresses in Romans 1 is this: “Knowing God, they refused to honor Him as God, and they were not grateful.” This is the basis for the universal indictment of the whole human race under the wrath of God. The one excuse that is taken away is ignorance. On the judgment day, no one will be able to plead ignorance of God, because He has revealed Himself, and that revelation gets through. The problem is that fallen man refuses to acknowledge what he knows to be true.
Now, how does all of that influence our defense of theism? God has proven himself to be who he is, our job is to share it with others.
It was an animal not a human being. I don’t see what the great significance in the sign is other than the sign signifying that he was the Messiah.
Can you explain and point out so it could be more clearer to communicate what it is concerning this sign?
Just because the Holy Spirit descends “like” a dove doesn’t mean much more than it is.. a
.That is a great assumption.
Maurice
Member
It's called telling it like it is. You just don't want to see it.
Maurice
Member
Bodily form is bodily formed there's no assumption about it.It was an animal not a human being. I don’t see what the great significance in the sign is other than the sign signifying that he was the Messiah.
Can you explain and point out so it could be more clearer to communicate what it is concerning this sign?
Just because the Holy Spirit descends “like” a dove doesn’t mean much more than it is.. a
That is a great assumption.
