civic
Well-known member
Nice try we are talking about Him as God. Nice bait n switch with the word of God.
Why I don’t believe or accept the trinity.
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
MatthewG
Active member
Yeshua has always been the Word of God… it just seems you do not use that terminology concerning the difference…
You really have nothing to address and thus. This is the response… just to ignore my questions. You don’t need to answer them, who cares but myself anyway?
Do you ever feel that way? Who cares so much about if you are right and it was Jesus, Jesus Word, and Jesus’s Holy Spirit that was in the beginning… does it make a difference concerning being at peace with Yahavah?
Don’t know, but may people be encouraged to seek truth, and never they never believe me or you, but be encouraged to engage actively with the one whom they call out to as their Father who adopts them people as his children by faith in the gospel…
No one has to agree with 3 eternal co-equal, 3 persons, 3 gods in 1 God… trinity mess… but I do not hold anything against you because you or anyone else needs to believe in that so called made up doctrine, you can continue to quote scriptures which are broader in their fuller context and that is all there is to the argument…
Scripture citing from different sources, and concluding, that Yeshua, by definition is Yahavah himself… when indeed Yeshua was the Word… we have done went over John 1:1, but the Word was God - by virtue of being the heart and spoken word of God… but it doesn’t make him equal or greater than his Father who had sent him…
Jesus says his Father is greater than he…
As I shared earlier I like to go back to the beginning…
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
All things came from Yahavah by and through virtue of his spoken “Word.” There is a distinct difference…
And me coming up and brushing up against you is because you will always seemingly come back with some response in telling me I am off some how, and that apparently perhaps I deny God and I deny his Son, … and then scoff when you don’t really have an answer…
It’s okay though I suppose we do this for the will of Yahavah and the growth of others which he will give to those who faithfully seek him out… in prayer, in the scripture and in every day applicational life where as people who follow Yeshua, honor him by not trying to make him into something which makes Yeshua over his Father… or that Yeshua is equally God… because if Yeshua was God, then how did God die? Have you explained that to me yet?
MatthewG
Active member
Where is the honor and glory for Yahavah, the God of Israel’s proper name…
”My God will use his glorious riches to give you everything you need. He will do this through Christ Jesus. Glory to our God and Father forever and ever. Amen. Give our greetings to God’s people there—to each one who belongs to Christ Jesus. Those in God’s family who are with me send you their greetings. And greetings to you from all of God’s people here, especially those who work in the service of the emperor. The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.“
Philippians 4:19-23 ERV
Philippians 4:21 Give our greetings to God’s people there—to each one who belongs to Christ Jesus. Those in God’s family who are with me send you their greetings. | Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) | Download The Bible App Now
Give our greetings to God’s people there—to each one who belongs to Christ Jesus. Those in God’s family who are with me send you their greetings.
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I rather know what to do now, and know the truth and be set free by the son, and not in bondage to man and the scripture fallacy, missing the greater contextual bases for anything being said may be said… just scripture citing, can take a whole lot of context and content people really should be looking in and around, than just single scriptures that can obscure truth…
101G
Well-known member
that's your BIG MISTAKE. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." here God is a plurality of himself... to come in TIME, PLACE, ORDER and RANK. (READ THAT AGAIN), it's very important. there is only one Person at Genesis, only one. let's see it. the term GOD.
God: H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433
two points of attention. definition #3. and [plural of H433]. first thing #3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme). this plurality of God is defined in the term "Beginning". let's see it.
Beginning: H7225 רֵאשִׁית re'shiyth (ray-sheeth') n-f.
1. the first, in place, time, order or rank.
2. (specifically) a firstfruit.
[from the same as H7218]
KJV: beginning, chief(-est), first(-fruits, part, time), principal thing.
Root(s): H7218
this "FIRST" is in Ordinal Designations of Place, Time, Order or Rank. this is the KEY to understanding God's plurality. as First he is CREATOR, and MAKER OF ALL THINGS. this is God place in the beginning. notice in, in, in, the beginning, not at the beginning, but IN the beginning. his place is FIRST. his title or Rank is "LORD". in Time he is the beginning and in the Last as a DIVERSITY ...... of his own self, (per Isaiah 63:5, and confirmed in Isaiah chapter 53)., and his Order as FIRST is in Ordinal designation, and not in Cardinal designation, the term beginning in Genesis 1:1 is the revelation of God plurality of ONE. this is bared out in Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" ONE here is the Hebrew term,
ONE: H259 אֶחָד 'echad (ech-awd') adj.
1. (properly) united, i.e. one.
2. (as an ordinal) first.
[a numeral from H258]
KJV: a, alike, alone, altogether, and, any(-thing), apiece, a certain, (dai-)ly, each (one), + eleven, every, few, first, + highway, a man, once, one, only, other, some, together.
Root(s): H258
definition #2 says it all, by confirming what the term "Beginning" means in Genesis 1:1. and this meaning is that God is a plurality in TIME, PLACE, ORDER, and RANK, here as LORD, and Father, who MADE ALL THINGS in, in, in, the "Beginning".
now to prove 101G, the Lord Jesus himself confirm this. and the Lord Jesus cannot LIE. listen carefully. Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,"
the Lord Jesus said that God is a "he". and yes, it is written, Genesis 1:27 right after Genesis 1:26. now, the revelation of Genesis 1:26, concerning the plurality of God is this. the order is in Ordinal designation of First and Last, in Time and Place.
when the Lord Jesus said that God is a "he". there is nothing else to be said. the only thing to do is go and find out why he said US and OUR in Genesis 1:26 when he is a Single person. the argument is over. the only thing left to do is understand why?
when Christians learn the designations of First and Last of God as ONE PERSON, then one will know the TRUTH. until then ..... many are lost and still in their sins.
101G.
MatthewG
Active member
There is no person… except for Yahavah, Yahavahs Word and Yahavahs Holy Spirit in the beginning with Yahavah… because all of those are of Him…
Yahavah is not a man… the Word of God was sent and born into the flesh of man, also of the spirit. He was one of the firstborn, of his kind in that manner.
While the term of God may be plural, there are many ways a person can take what that could entail… though Yahavah is a spirit he created mankind as male and female… Yahavah and his Word together make him a plurality, but it doesn’t make the Word of God, as God himself…
That is where people really get janked up at… because they say Jesus is God so much they forget he was the Word of God, whom was apart of God by virtue of being his word…
Telling me I wrong is no way to go about it.
101G
Well-known member
once again. there is no such name of God as your Yahavah. now you said this, "There is no person… except for Yahavah, Yahavahs Word and Yahavahs Holy Spirit in the beginning with Yahavah" OUT OF YOUR OWN MOUTH THERE IS THE TRUTH, BUT YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE IN WHAT YOU SAID. listen 101G is not here to argue with you. but to try to help you in understanding the plurality of God as ONE PERSON.
just consider this. see the word you used ... "WITH" ... in your statement above. now, let's discuss, and not argue. the term With which is another KEY in understanding the Plurality of God. let's see from the bible how God is a plurality of HIMSELF using the term "WITH". please follow carefully.
the TERMS First and Last is Synonyms with "ONE" Person, correct, just read Revelation. let's understand.
Scripture: Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he." note here, the LORD, who is the Father your Yahavah said he is the First who is with, with, with, the Last correct. remember the LORD is One Person right, according to Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" now hold that thought,
Scripture: Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." here the LORD/Father said he is the First "and" he is the Last. now this is not conclusive as to this being one person, agree. but Now the Revelation.
Scripture: Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last." there it is no doubt the First is the same one person as the Last, because "ALSO" here means, "in addition; too", yes, in addition too. the LORD/the Father, in addition too being the Father, he is also the same one person who is the Last. now who is the Last concering the Godhead? answer, the one whom we call the Son, or the ... "LAST" ... Adam. let's see. 1 Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." 1 Corinthians 15:46 "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual." 1 Corinthians 15:47 "The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven." is this conclusive?
Now MatthewG, without arguing, is there any Man from Heaven that is a quickening spirit. or as a matter of FACT any man from Heaven at all that is the Last Adam. no this is ONLY the Lord Jesus, whom we call the WORD/title Son, Correct. now let's confirm the term "WITH" in reference to the Son as the One Person God. listen,
Scripture: John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." there is the TRUTH, the word was "WITH" God, and in John 1:1c it states he was GOD..... which certify Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last."
BINGO, the same one PERSON in the Beginning. is this conclusive? yes.
NOW, let's not argue, but let's discuss. if you have anything that is different from what 101G has states, then put it forth for discussion.
Good GREAT, so how could God make a Man in his IMAGE, if he's NOT A MAN . for an IMAGE REFLECTS it's SOURCE. think on that.
101G
MatthewG
Active member
You can disagree all you would like to… God made man and woman… in his image. It seems we call God, he, because Yeshua claims he is the one we call out to in prayer… as Father…
You’re not gonna change my mind…
You may decide how you are gonna read, when it comes to it. I believe that I’m not wrong in seeing that Yahavah, Yahavahs Word which created, and Yahavahs Holy Spirit are there in the beginning…
You can say YHWH, or YHVH…
Gods name is not Jesus…
Exodus 6:3
”And Jehovah saith unto Moses, ‘Now dost thou see that which I do to Pharaoh, for with a strong hand he doth send them away, yea, with a strong hand he doth cast them out of his land.’ And God speaketh unto Moses, and saith unto him, ‘I [am] Jehovah, and I appear unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty; as to My name Jehovah, I have not been known to them; and also I have established My covenant with them, to give to them the land of Canaan, the land of their sojournings, wherein they have sojourned;“
Exodus 6:1-4 YLT98
Exodus 6:1-4 And JEHOVAH saith unto Moses, ‘Now dost thou see that which I do to Pharaoh, for with a strong hand he doth send them away, yea, with a strong hand he doth cast them out of his land.’ And God speaketh | Young's Literal Translation 1898 (
And JEHOVAH saith unto Moses, ‘Now dost thou see that which I do to Pharaoh, for with a strong hand he doth send them away, yea, with a strong hand he doth cast them out of his land.’ And God speaketh
bible.com
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Is there a division and rank in the "words" of God relative to each individual you're referencing?
101G
Well-known member
MatthewG
Active member
Don’t know what you mean. Yahavah either showed himself by things of nature, like fire, or a whirlwind, and you have Yahavah whom spoke his Word and he gave power to His Word to create, which came down and was born of the spirit and man.
MatthewG
Active member
Good deal
it’s not a salvation issue praise be to Yahavah!praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Does the Father ever say something the Son gets wrong?
Is what the Father says more important than what the Sons says?
MatthewG
Active member
That depends on one’s ability to decide for themselves. What to you is important, when it comes down to you and the one whom you choose to serve being adopted by and through the Holy Spirit of Yahavah that Yahavah gives to those whom believe and have faith towards him… pouring his love out the heart, of those whom are his…
“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD (Yahweh/Yahavah). “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.“
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
This isn't an answer. It is diversion. Truth doesn't change relative to "what is important to you".
I'll ask separately again.
Does the Father ever say something the Son gets wrong?
MatthewG
Active member
What? Is knowing God important? Is knowing Gods Word important? Jesus seems to say, Yes…
Because of Yahavahs Word, which God had sent… is the Word of God made flesh…
When it comes to your question what would you say about it as an answer? I don’t feel the need or desire to have to even explain or reason your question…
Does the Father ever say something the Son says which is wrong? What would this be in reference to because it seems to ask this question, he must have some how, huh?
civic
Well-known member
Amen
civic
Well-known member
The Word in John 1:1 is a Person just the same as God in John 1:1 is a Person.
MatthewG
Active member
how do you figure that?
John is quoting how it was in the beginning…
Here is what Moses wrote;
What about this says the Word was a person?
Here is the birth of Jesus.
Here is what John says by revelation, concerning him.
Yahavah sent his Word, whom became flesh…
civic
Well-known member
NT:4314
89.112 NT:4314† pros: a marker of association, often with the implication of interrelationships - 'with, before.' ei)rh/nhn e&xomen pro\$ to\n qeo/n 'we have peace with God' Rom 5:1; kai\ o( lo/go$ h@n pro\$ to\n qeo/n 'the Word was with God' John 1:1; parrhsi/an e&xomen pro\$ to\n qeo/n 'we have confidence before God' 1 John 3:21.
Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies- Louw and Nida Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament
The Word is also seen has having eternally coexisted with a specific person called God (Greek, ton theon-the God, with the definite article implying that John has a specific person in mind). The term pros implies that not only is there a distinction between the Word and God, but that the Word is also personal. The Word is not just an impersonal attribute existing in the mind of God, but is a distinct person who has coexisted with God from eternity:
"John's use of the preposition pros 'with' is significant. It implies that the Father and the Son had an intimate as well as eternal relationship. Lenski explains:
The preposition pros, as distinct from heos, para,and sun, is of the greatest importance... The idea is that of presence and communion with a strong note of reciprocity. The Logos, then, is not an attribute inferring in God, or a power emanating from him, but a person in the presence of God and turned in loving, inseparable communion toward God and God turned equally toward him. He was another and yet not other than God.
The above coincides perfectly with John 17:5 where we read Jesus saying He was with ( para ) in relationship together, alongside the Father sharing the same Glory that is Gods alone before the Creation.
Strong's Concordance
para: from beside, by the side of, by, beside
Original Word: παρά
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: para
Phonetic Spelling: (par-ah')
Definition: from beside, by the side of, by, beside
Usage: gen: from; dat: beside, in the presence of; acc: alongside of.
Thayers Greek Lexicon
para- with the genitive; and as in Greek prose writings always with the genitive of a person, to denote that a thing proceeds from. the side or the vicinity of one, or from one's sphere of power, or from one's wealth or store, Latina, ab; German von ... her, von neben; Frenchde chez; (English from beside, from);
b. with, i. e. in one's house; in one's town; in one's society: ξενίζεσθαι (which see), Acts 10:6; Acts 21:16; μένειν, of guests or lodgers, John 1:39 (); ; Acts 9:43; Acts 18:3, 20 (R G); f; ἐπιμένειν, Acts 28:14 L T Tr WH; καταλύειν, Luke 19:7(Demosthenes, de corona § 82 (cf. Buttmann, 339 (292))); ἀριστᾶν, Luke 11:37; ἀπολείπειν τί, 2 Timothy 4:13; παρά τῷ Θεῷ, dwelling with God, John 8:38; equivalent to in heaven, John 17:5; μισθόν ἔχειν, to have a reward laid up with God in heaven, Matthew 6:1; εὑρεῖν χάριν (there where God is, i. e. God's favor (cf. Winer's Grammar, 365 (343))), Luke 1:30; a person is also said to have χάρις παρά one with whom he is acceptable, Luke 2:52; τοῦτο χάρις παρά Θεῷ, this is acceptable with God, pleasing to him, 1 Peter 2:20 (for בְּעֵינֵי, Exodus 33:12, 16; Numbers 11:15); παρά Θεῷ, in fellowship with God (of those who have embraced the Christian religion and turned to God from whom they had before been estranged), 1 Corinthians 7:24; παρά κυρίῳ (in heaven), before the Lord as judge, 2 Peter 2:11 (G L omit and Tr WH brackets the phrase); παῥ ὑμῖν, in your city, in your church, Colossians 4:16; with a dative plural equivalent to among, Matthew 22:25; Matthew 28:15; Revelation 2:13; παῥ ἑαυτῷ, at his home, 1 Corinthians 16:2.
hope this helps !!!
MatthewG
Active member
Talk to me like a normal human being… maybe me and you should stop communicating because you … just … not normal… I do not desire to read this…
Who the hell cares?
I want to hear what you gotta say, not your damn disagreements by quoting other people’s stuff, I didn’t ask for… you don’t read a thing I say.
Cause who cares, man is right, not Jesus to hell with that guy, I guess. Yeah okay x.
