Why I don’t believe or accept the trinity.

[MatthewG]

No where in scripture does it say you must accept this to be adhered a Christian… It’s a view, accepted yet, mysterious… Yeshua, stated that eternal life was to know the true God, Yahavah, and Yeshua whom he had sent… to accept something that is unproven, and unprovable, in order to be set right with your fellow peers is a wrong way to go about worshiping Yahavah in spirit and truth. Which Jesus said his Father seeks for people whom do so, and the writer of Hebrews says he is a rewarded of those who seek him out in faith…

Therefore… why not just do what Yeshua says, and put Yahavah your God first loving him, and fellowship of Him and of his Son… and loving your neighbor as yourself…

Being smart in a theological systematic way in setting up God in three persons, just doesn’t do it for me… I get Yeshua said I am, but it was his Father speaking in and through the Lord Yeshua, allowing it to be known he is, the Word of Yahavah, the very heart of God… he is not Yahavah in being set above him… He is Yahavahs Word, whom, is now seen sitting with his Father on his Throne, whom is the Lord God Almighty, even so… it doesn’t make… the Word of Yahavah … over Yahavah or Yahava exactly himself though Yeshua, by virtue of his Father, expresses whom he is and was by and through the life his Son has willingly sought after, which was do his Father will…

Never his own…

 

[101G]

Therefore… why not just do what Yeshua says, and put Yahavah your God first loving him, and fellowship of Him and of his Son… and loving your neighbor as yourself…

Being smart in a theological systematic way in setting up God in three persons, just doesn’t do it for me

what is this name Yahavah for God? this is a false name. is not Yeshua the same one person whom you call the Father? supportive Scripture. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

ALL THING WAS MADE BY HIM..... the Lord Jesus, the Word, correct. now this, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

clearly the "LORD", whom you calls the Father MADE ALL THING. so my question to you is this. "is the person in John 1:3 who made ALL THING is he the same one person who MADE ALL THINGS in Isaiah 44:24. all 101G needs is a YES or No.

101G.

 

[MatthewG]

what is this name Yahavah for God? this is a false name. is not Yeshua the same one person whom you call the Father? supportive Scripture. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God." John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

ALL THING WAS MADE BY HIM..... the Lord Jesus, the Word, correct. now this, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"

clearly the "LORD", whom you calls the Father MADE ALL THING. so my question to you is this. "is the person in John 1:3 who made ALL THING is he the same one person who MADE ALL THINGS in Isaiah 44:24. all 101G needs is a YES or No.

101G.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

 

[MatthewG]

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

@101G, from and through are two distinct words.

 

[mikesw]

I presume this discussion is about Jesus and the Lord. I would agree that a person does not need to know the trinitarian essence of God to be justified in Jesus. However, I would not recommend people to go to a church group that denies the divinity of Christ. That would just be a sign that there are bigger misconceptions that may lead to a generally untrustworthy message overall. If someone wants to change the conception of the Godhead for some new conception, they better make a good argument that can convince many people that this new conception is better.

 

[MatthewG]

I presume this discussion is about Jesus and the Lord. I would agree that a person does not need to know the trinitarian essence of God to be justified in Jesus. However, I would not recommend people to go to a church group that denies the divinity of Christ. That would just be a sign that there are bigger misconceptions that may lead to a generally untrustworthy message overall. If someone wants to change the conception of the Godhead for some new conception, they better make a good argument that can convince many people that this new conception is better.

It’s much better to have one’s single individual relationship with Yahavah, in and through the Lord Jesus Christ. It most certainly has to do with the heart, and seeking out in faith, and walking by the spirit. I don’t know what the divinity of Jesus is other than He was once the Word of Yahavah before becoming born of flesh, named Yeshua, whom was the Son of God.

”The people who believe that Jesus is the Messiah are God’s children. Anyone who loves the Father also loves the Father’s children. How do we know that we love God’s children? We know because we love God and we obey his commands. Loving God means obeying his commands. And God’s commands are not too hard for us, because everyone who is a child of God has the power to win against the world. It is our faith that has won the victory against the world. So who wins against the world? (Speaking of the flesh) Only those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus Christ is the one who came. He came with water and with blood. He did not come by water only. No, Jesus came by both water and blood. And the Spirit tells us that this is true. The Spirit is the truth. So there are three witnesses that tell us about Jesus: the Spirit, the water, and the blood. These three witnesses agree. We believe people when they say something is true. But what God says is more important. And this is what God told us: He told us the truth about his own Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God has the truth that God told us. But people who do not believe God make God a liar, because they do not believe what God told us about his Son. This is what God told us: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life, but whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.“
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭12‬ ‭ERV

 

[mikesw]

It’s much better to have one’s single individual relationship with Yahavah, in and through the Lord Jesus Christ. It most certainly has to do with the heart, and seeking out in faith, and walking by the spirit. I don’t know what the divinity of Jesus is other than He was once the Word of Yahavah before becoming born of flesh, named Yeshua, whom was the Son of God.

”The people who believe that Jesus is the Messiah are God’s children. Anyone who loves the Father also loves the Father’s children. How do we know that we love God’s children? We know because we love God and we obey his commands. Loving God means obeying his commands. And God’s commands are not too hard for us, because everyone who is a child of God has the power to win against the world. It is our faith that has won the victory against the world. So who wins against the world? (Speaking of the flesh) Only those who believe that Jesus is the Son of God. Jesus Christ is the one who came. He came with water and with blood. He did not come by water only. No, Jesus came by both water and blood. And the Spirit tells us that this is true. The Spirit is the truth. So there are three witnesses that tell us about Jesus: the Spirit, the water, and the blood. These three witnesses agree. We believe people when they say something is true. But what God says is more important. And this is what God told us: He told us the truth about his own Son. Whoever believes in the Son of God has the truth that God told us. But people who do not believe God make God a liar, because they do not believe what God told us about his Son. This is what God told us: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life, but whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.“
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭12‬ ‭ERV

The divinity is Christ's essence. He always had it and remains that way today. He functioned in some limited sense while incarnated. It is great to see his divinity mentioned with Christ as the Son of God (1 John 5:5). It is great seeing Christ's divinity revealed in so many places.

 

[MatthewG]

The divinity is Christ's essence. He always had it and remains that way today. He functioned in some limited sense while incarnated. It is great to see his divinity mentioned with Christ as the Son of God (1 John 5:5). It is great seeing Christ's divinity revealed in so many places.

don’t know.

 

[101G]

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

and? this still do not change 101G original question.

"is the person in John 1:3 who made ALL THING is he the same one person who MADE ALL THINGS in Isaiah 44:24. all 101G needs is a YES or No.

well yes or no?

101G.

 

[101G]

@101G, from and through are two distinct words.

ERROR in your understanding. through is the same as "BY" and in Isaiah 44:24 he was "Alone and "BY" himself.
so last time is the person in John 1:3 the same one person in Isaiah 44:24?

your answer please.... yes or no.

101G.

 

[MatthewG]

and? this still do not change 101G original question.

well yes or no?

101G.

ERROR in your understanding. through is the same as "BY" and in Isaiah 44:24 he was "Alone and "BY" himself.
so last time is the person in John 1:3 the same one person in Isaiah 44:24?

your answer please.... yes or no.

101G.

Are you my judge? Will you condemn me because I believe Yeshua worshiped the true God of Israel named Yahavah… or Jehovah or Yahweh as some say…


Why do people deem is needed to dumb down the name of God?

Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob by the name of God Almighty, but by My name Jehovah was I not known to them.

 

[Behold]

No where in scripture does it say you must accept this to be adhered a Christian…

You dont believe in a Literal Devil who is currently the god of this world.
You dont believe Hell exists.
You are a devout denier that the Rapture is to come

And you deny the Trinity.

You are a perfect example of a person who has read so much "man made commentary"... and it has you now unable to believe many things you need to believe.

Now, its true that you dont have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian.
That's true.
You only have to be born again, to be a Christian.

 

[101G]

Are you my judge?

God word is

Will you condemn me because I believe Yeshua worshiped the true God of Israel named Yahavah… or Jehovah or Yahweh as some say…

careless what some say, only what God say.

Why do people deem is needed to dumb down the name of God?

can't answer for other, only 101G, which lift up the word God in his Wisdom. Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob by the name of God Almighty, but by My name Jehovah was I not known to them.

ok, lets see if this is true. Genesis come before Exodus, correct. now Listen, Genesis 22:14 "And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen."

why then is the false name Jehovah in Abraham mouth? remember God, yes, God said, "but by My name Jehovah was I not known to them." if he was not KNOW to Abraham as Jehovah, why was it in Abraham mouth? see. it was added, it's a false name.

now, let's get the truth. Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I." SHALL KNOW? yes, future tense. God said, "in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I". I AM HE? let's see when this was. John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." BINGO there he is "I AM HE". and this is Jesus/Yeshua speaking.

now once again. is not the Person in John 1:3 WHO MADE ALL THINGS is the same one person in Isaiah 44:23.....remember the person in Isaiah 44:24 is "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF".

and "ALONE" means, "having no one else present". BINGO.

101G

 

[101G]

You dont believe in a Literal Devil who is currently the god of this world.
You dont believe Hell exists.
You are a devout denier that the Rapture is to come

And you deny the Trinity.

You are a perfect example of a person who has read so much "man made commentary"... and it has you now unable to believe many things you need to believe.

Now, its true that you dont have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian.
That's true.
You only have to be born again, to be a Christian.

ERROR, if one follow a false doctrine they are in danger of the fire. listen and LEARN, 1 Timothy 1:9 "Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers," 1 Timothy 1:10 "For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;"

the TRINITY is not sound doctrine.

101G.

 

[MatthewG]

God word is

careless what some say, only what God say.

can't answer for other, only 101G, which lift up the word God in his Wisdom. Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob by the name of God Almighty, but by My name Jehovah was I not known to them.

ok, lets see if this is true. Genesis come before Exodus, correct. now Listen, Genesis 22:14 "And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen."

why then is the false name Jehovah in Abraham mouth? remember God, yes, God said, "but by My name Jehovah was I not known to them." if he was not KNOW to Abraham as Jehovah, why was it in Abraham mouth? see. it was added, it's a false name.

now, let's get the truth. Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I." SHALL KNOW? yes, future tense. God said, "in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I". I AM HE? let's see when this was. John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." BINGO there he is "I AM HE". and this is Jesus/Yeshua speaking.

now once again. is not the Person in John 1:3 WHO MADE ALL THINGS is the same one person in Isaiah 44:23.....remember the person in Isaiah 44:24 is "ALONE" and "BY HIMSELF".

and "ALONE" means, "having no one else present". BINGO.

101G

Yeah… it was Yahavah, Yahavas Word… with Yahavah speaking and his Word producing there is no other God on the throne, and there is no God beside him… Jesus sat at the right hand of the Father for a time… but there is “no other God” beside him…

The whole Jesus is God, wrote saying is old… and believing one needs to accept the trinity or accept they must only worship Jesus… are not correct in what the Bible foretells…

I know you just need a yes or no…

Jesus because Yahavah spoke through His Word made flesh doesn’t make Yeshua, the Father…

And there is no such thing as a holy trinity and if you say Jesus is God like you do, then why did he die on the cross? God can’t die but the ridiculous trinity things makes it as though God had to have died, Jesus was 100% and 100% God or so they say… never read that in scripture, nor trinity…

 

[101G]

yeah... it was Yahavah, Yahavas Word... with Yahavah speaking

ERROR, did you not UNDERSTAND? he was alone, and ALONE meaning, "having no one else present:" and by having no one else present he didn't go through anyone, because no one else was present. meaning that the so-called other two person is not omni-present.

101G

 

[101G]

@MatthewG
if you don't understand what alone and by himself means see my post #410 below.

• #410

101G.

 

[MatthewG]

ERROR, did you not UNDERSTAND? he was alone, and ALONE meaning, "having no one else present:" and by having no one else present he didn't go through anyone, because no one else was present. meaning that the so-called other two person is not omni-present.

101G

Well in the beginning you have Yahavah, Yahavahs Word.

My name is Matthew, when I speak my words are part of me by virtue of my heart…

Yahavah spoke, and the Word created…. And Yahavah was the one whom separated the light from the darkness… Yahavahs Spirit is there hovering over the waters… all are part of Yahavah, whom is One… The Word of God is Yahavahs expressed Word, and heart…

”In the beginning, when God created the earth and sky, the earth was without life and not yet useful for anything. Deep waters covered the earth, and darkness covered the water. God’s Spirit was moving like a storm over the surface of the water. Then God said, “Let there be light!” And light began to shine.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Genesis 1:1-3 In the beginning, when God created the earth and sky, the earth was without life and not yet useful for anything. Deep waters covered the earth, and darkness covered the water. God’s Spirit was moving | Holy Bible: Easy-to-Read Version

In the beginning, when God created the earth and sky, the earth was without life and not yet useful for anything. Deep waters covered the earth, and darkness covered the water. God’s Spirit was moving

bible.com

Wouldn’t it be wiser to follow Yeshua and what he says to do in worship his Father in spirit and truth? Or listen to people continuously ground about with the trinity theology which has to deny a lot of scripture, and be accepted as a just is… that’s not helpful to anyone… and it’s misleading… not that it’s anyone’s fault; except those who taught the doctrine to people and even people who teach it like it’s something that needs to be authoritatively directed in order for someone to be made right with Yahavah the one whom sent his Word, which had become flesh… and died on the cross, which Yahavah by his spirit, raised up from the dead, after three days.

It really seems people just desire me to follow in their ways and just accept what they say is truth…

Nah… let Yahavah take my life and strike me dead… cause people who are so highly intelligent and educated and they just know cause they can put verses together out of context no less… and just say here is your answer… next…

Sometimes things take the Spirit to understand and not … our fleshly understanding, or systematically ignoring completely what Yeshua had taught which I deem… important but many assume saying Jesus is God is far more important than knowing… Yahweh…

When really knowing the true God (Yahweh/Yahavah) and the one whom sent Jesus, is life eternal…

I believe that Yeshua today is the Lord God Almighty but that is only revealed in revelation, also noting that Yeshua is the Word of God, but Jesus wasn’t Jesus until being born in the flesh… many people just play around because of the “years of study, and passion,” but passion doesn’t make a right…

Not like Yeshua who makes one right with God, Yahavah, who spoke in the beginning…

Not that is matters to anyone on this forum, because if you suggest denying the trinity cost you your life, your not gonna turn from that type of fear.

 

[civic]

The divinity is Christ's essence. He always had it and remains that way today. He functioned in some limited sense while incarnated. It is great to see his divinity mentioned with Christ as the Son of God (1 John 5:5). It is great seeing Christ's divinity revealed in so many places.

Mike check out this thread. I have provided literally 100's of passages affirming His Deity and its being denied.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/glory-to-the-son.1638/

 

[MatthewG]

Mike check out this thread. I have provided literally 100's of passages affirming His Deity and its being denied.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/glory-to-the-son.1638/

Where have I ever denied that Yeshua was not the Word of God, was not Emmanuel, or that Yahavah is a God not worthy of worship? I believe in Jesus, whom was the Word prior to having been born in flesh, spoken…

I always go back to the beginning…


”In the beginning, when God created the earth and sky, the earth was without life and not yet useful for anything. Deep waters covered the earth, and darkness covered the water. God’s Spirit was moving like a storm over the surface of the water. Then God said, “Let there be light!” And light began to shine.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭ERV‬‬

Yahavah, Yahavahs Word, and Yahavahs Spirit all are part of the one knows as the God of Israel. There is no such scripture that says Yahavah, Yahavahs Word, Yahavahs Holy Spirit are all co-equal, and also God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit never is noted in the Bible as such which are suggest to be 3 persons in One God… or 3 Gods in one God… that stuff is a lot of no good…

I don’t get where you I deny Yahavah, and I deny his Son… in no way is that true.