The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Try using scripture instead of lame analogies.
Why All Is Not Ordained
- Thread starter Rockson
- Start date
Try using scripture instead of lame analogies.
Rockson
Well-known member
Fact is though you KNOW it's not a lame analogy . You now full well a parent may allow some purposes or will they have not to go their way and some they will they will insist MUST. Thus with God. Some things he'll allow his will to be thwarted and some he won't
What's truly lame is your side of things quoting Job 42 :2 that God purposes cannot be thwarted and not accepting the Pharisees did this very thing in rejecting God's purpose for themselves. Lk 7:30 You don't rightly divide that there are various type of purposes God has some of which he doesn't insist have to be brought forth and some he does. Point. God ordaining everything as Calvinists say is in total error. Trusting and hoping you'll come into the LIGHT.
Would you suggest God cannot be trusted with what he reveals?So, is one purpose God's secret will, and another purpose his declarative will?
Would that not be the result if there were contradiction between his revealed and secret will?
STRAWMAN ALERT! no one said He uses force or coercion.Strawman alert
Jesus said to pray for His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. God first rule by force or coercion, neither does He love by force or coercion. Only in Calvinisms caricature does god act that way
You God wishes to save all but fails to do so. He tries hard but the almighty will of man wins out for most in the end. So much for "no one can stay His hand" right?
Job 42:2. Isaiah 14:27 mention different kinds of purposes?
"Nothing can thwart the purpose and will when it comes to some things", never written on the pages of scripture.
Another Provisionist presupposition
Where did he claim to be a pope over anyone? LOL
We are mocking your silly assertion. That's what it deserves. Sorry, A little tough love there.
It's very poor debating skills on your side's part if what your side says can be said by my side also. There is no advancement there whatsoever. Sorry for my chastisement.
Your forgiven. Try to do better
Better than your closet universalism? That's a very hard if not impossible act to do better on or even to follow.
Try to do better with your illogical contradictory mess you call theology
Remember this gem: no purpose of God can be thwarted, but some can. Brilliant
Of course my words contradict your closet universalism. My side perfectly aligns with scripture. Your Calvinist presuppositions have flooded and blinded your mind so much that you have difficulty seeing that the Bible does not promote your universalism.
Rockson
Well-known member
Is the term irresistible grace found in scripture?
How about unconditional election?
How about Limited Atonement?
How about double predestination?
It does not promote your universalism either. Remember your universal atonement, universal propitiation? Christ died for all, even those already dead at the time of the cross. That sir is universalim.
The Provisionist: "No purpose of God can be thwarted, but some are"......
No one claimed they were.
I ask again, does Job 42:2 or Isaiah 14:27 mention different kinds of purposes???
You sound confused. Universal Atonement does not immediately denote Universalism. Belief in Christ separates one from the other. Do you understand the concept of Faith? Do I actually have to spell it out to you?
I am not a Provisionist.
Rockson
Well-known member
And neither have I claimed the actual wording of how I expressed what I said is in the scripture. It is what the scripture is saying however without using the exact same words. Before you laugh and mock at that remember again there's a host of a whole lot of things you believe that aren't expressed the way you express them in scripture either. You can't deny that.
.
Sure it does. If Christ died for all sins, including the sin of unbelief, then on what basis is anyone judged??
civic
Well-known member
God answers prayer and will go another direction from what He had said previously. Jesus said to pray that Gods will would be done on earth as it is in heaven. Jesus said He longed to gather Israel like a hen with her chicks but they would not listen. So much for irresistible grace and Gods will being done on earth. He listened to Moses and did not wipe out the Israelites. He listened to Abraham when He pleaded with Him in Genesis 18. And God repented that He made man and brought the flood and several other examples.
I will believe scripture over your false presuppositions.
Exodus 33:17 So the LORD said to Moses, “I will also do this thing that you have spoken; for you have found grace in My sight, and I know you by name.”
1Samuel 2:30 Therefore the LORD God of Israel says: ‘I said indeed that your house and the house of your father would walk before Me forever.’ But now the LORD says: ‘Far be it from Me; for those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed.
Jonah 3:4-9 And Jonah began to enter the city on the first day’s walk. Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest to the least of them.
Jon 3:6 Then word came to the king of Nineveh; and he arose from his throne and laid aside his robe, covered himself with sackcloth and sat in ashes.7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published throughout Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste anything; do not let them eat, or drink water.8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily to God; yes, let every one turn from his evil way and from the violence that is in his hands.9 Who can tell if God will turn and relent, and turn away from His fierce anger, so that we may not perish?
Jonah 4:2 So he prayed to the LORD, and said, “Ah, LORD, was not this what I said when I was still in my country? Therefore I fled previously to Tarshish; for I know that You are a gracious and merciful God, slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, One who relents from doing harm.
Jeremiah 26:3 If so be they will hearken, and turn every man from his evil way, that I may repent me of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings.
Joel 2:13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
So much for the calvinist/reformed view of determinism, predestination, sovereignty in which everything that comes to pass is ordained by God and its His will.
Jeremiah 32
“The people of Israel and Judah have done nothing but evil in my sight from their youth; indeed, the people of Israel have done nothing but arouse my anger with what their hands have made, declares the Lord. 31 From the day it was built until now, this city has so aroused my anger and wrath that I must remove it from my sight. 32 The people of Israel and Judah have provoked me by all the evil they have done—they, their kings and officials, their priests and prophets, the people of Judah and those living in Jerusalem. 33 They turned their backs to me and not their faces; though I taught them again and again, they would not listen or respond to discipline. 34 They set up their vile images in the house that bears my Name and defiled it. 35 They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.
hope this helps !!!
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Acceptance of Messiah. The Living Christ. The Son of God. There is no sacrifice for rejecting the Atonement.
civic
Well-known member
ditto
