Who are they which are grafted into Israel?

[GeneZ]

I see all the writing of Saul, Peter, James, the gospels and John as written to Jewish Christians discussing the effect of Messiah on their Covenants. John 5:39 makes sense in light of this new thing God was doing in an Israel.

King Saul was long dead.............. As well as the witch of Endor.

I was brought up Jewish.

If I came here and read you posts as a curious Jew? They could be confusing. Or, see you as the one confused.

Even Jewish people know the name Apostle Paul...

Saul was dead. Paul became a new creation in Christ.

Why must some insist upon looking like a kook when they might have something good to say?
Its uncalled for. And, hurts communication.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The fact you keep calling Paul, "Saul" is what triggered me at first...
Like you are into some Jewish cultish mind set.

Even demons knew better to call him Paul, not Saul.

Acts 19:15​

​

And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?”​

Why you chose that route makes no sense to me. No one called him by the old name God removed from him.
Made me think you have a strong bias that makes you bend the Word of God to fit your bias...

Just a suggestion. Drop the "Saul" and call him Paul, like everyone else did, including Paul himself.

When you do that? It makes you look like someone not to be believed.

grace and peace ..................

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. Acts 9:3–5.

Jesus called him "Saul."
Saul is his name.
Paul is his Gentile name.
He is a Jew not Gentile and If Jesus called him Saul, I don't see any "demonizing" or "cultish" attribute in Jesus in doing this.
Do you?

 

[GeneZ]

4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. Acts 9:3–5.

Jesus called him "Saul."
Saul is his name.
Paul is his Gentile name.
He is a Jew not Gentile and If Jesus called him Saul, I don't see any "demonizing" or "cultish" attribute in Jesus in doing this.
Do you?

Of course Jesus called him Saul.
Paul is not his "gentile" name.
Paul was his God given name.
Christians are a new creation in Christ.
They are no longer seen as Jew nor Gentile in the Lord's eyes.

Are you from a Jewish family? I was.


After salvation Paul was still culturally a Jew.
He became a new creation in Christ once he believed.
He became neither Jew nor Gentile once he became born again.

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female,
for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28​

I was born a Jew. I remain a Jew physically by race only, descended from Abraham
But, I am no longer a Jew otherwise.

grace and peace ......................

 

[jeremiah1five]

Of course Jesus called him Saul.
Paul is not his "gentile" name.
Paul was his God given name.

I know God changed the name of Abram to Abraham. It says so in Scripture.

Christians are a new creation in Christ.
They are no longer seen as Jew nor Gentile in the Lord's eyes.

When the two Jewish witnesses come, they will prophesy to Israel from their Law, Psalms, and Prophets and show to the Jew that this Jesus was and is their long-awaited Messiah and "all Israel shall be saved."
But for Saul of Tarsus I find no evidence in Scripture God chnaged Saul's name to Paul.
Actually, Paul is the Romanized version of Saul.

Are you from a Jewish family? I was.


After salvation Paul was still culturally a Jew.
He became a new creation in Christ once he believed.
He became neither Jew nor Gentile once he became born again.

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, ​

for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28​

Saul writes to Jewish Christians to affirm that by being of Christ they were still Abraham's sons/children/descendants. That's the only meaning of his words:

23 But before faith came, we [Jews] were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our [Jews] schoolmaster to bring us [Jews] unto Christ, that we [Jews] might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we [Jews] are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye [Jews] are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you [Jews] as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye [JEWS] are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [Jews] be Christ’s, then are ye [Jews] Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise [a promise given by God to the JEWS].
Ga 3:22–29.

I was born a Jew. I remain a Jew physically by race only, descended from Abraham
But, I am no longer a Jew otherwise.

grace and peace ......................

Jesus didn't say, "Paul, Paul, why persecutest thou me."

He called him "SAUL."

And since I am a Christ follower, I will follow Christ and say the same thing He says and call him Saul.

 

[GeneZ]

I know God changed the name of Abram to Abraham. It says so in Scripture.

The meaning of his name changed as Abraham matured.
Same with Sarah. She began as Sarai... meaning, 'contentious."
When the Lord renamed her Sarah, she became "princess."

When the two Jewish witnesses come, they will prophesy to Israel from their Law, Psalms, and Prophets and show to the Jew that this Jesus was and is their long-awaited Messiah and "all Israel shall be saved."

Yes... they will be Jewish. Not church.

They were not predestined by God to be body of Christ. They will be on earth while the Church will be in Heaven being prepared to return with the Lord for His Millennial reign.

But for Saul of Tarsus I find no evidence in Scripture God chnaged Saul's name to Paul.
Actually, Paul is the Romanized version of Saul.

Saul means "great one" Paul means "little one."

But Jesus, knowing the reasoning of their hearts, took a child and put him by his side
and said to them, “Whoever receives this child in my name receives me, and whoever
receives me receives him who sent me. For he who is least among you all is the one
who is great.” Luke 9:47-48

Jesus didn't say, "Paul, Paul, why persecutest thou me."

He called him "SAUL."

Of course the Lord called him Saul. One step at a time.
The Lord did not call Cephas Peter right away either.

And since I am a Christ follower, I will follow Christ and say the same thing He says and call him Saul.

Go ahead... To each his own stands before his master.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The meaning of his name changed as Abraham matured.
Same with Sarah. She began as Sarai... meaning, 'contentious."
When the Lord renamed her Sarah, she became "princess."

The name change was instantaneous. Look at the present tense of "have I made thee."

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. Gen. 17:4–5.

Yes... they will be Jewish. Not church.
They were not predestined by God to be body of Christ.

Agreed.

They will be on earth while the Church will be in Heaven being prepared to return with the Lord for His Millennial reign.

I don't believe Scripture speaks of a rapture and I don't hold to such fallacy. The men in white apparel said the way He's coming back is the way He went up.

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Acts 1:11.

He didn't rise/ascend, stay in the air for 3 1/2 years, and finally go to His Father.

Saul means "great one" Paul means "little one."

Saul must've had some issues with pride. Still, he changed his name to be more acceptable to Gentiles. A missionary/evangelical gimmick.

But Jesus, knowing the reasoning of their hearts, took a child and put him by his side
and said to them, “Whoever receives this child in my name receives me, and whoever
receives me receives him who sent me. For he who is least among you all is the one
who is great.” Luke 9:47-48

Ah, you're talking about Peter's child. Good thing Peter was sent to fish for a coin from a fish's mouth to pay tax. No telling what he would have thought had he been there to hear Jesus say that about his kid. He might have made him/her an apostle like he did Matthias. Brash, impetuous, Peter. God love him. But he mellowed as an elder. And most importantly learned he has no authority to appoint apostles (or treasurers) and other things.

Of course the Lord called him Saul. One step at a time.
The Lord did not call Cephas Peter right away either.

Saul, Saul! Simeon! Simeon!

Go ahead... To each his own stands before his master.

 

[GeneZ]

The name change was instantaneous. Look at the present tense of "have I made thee."

Instantaneous... But, not until Abraham matured.... Like I said.
And, Cephas was renamed Peter instantaneously, as well.

SO WHAT?

Nit picking is not a bad thing... As long as the goal is to find truth and not end up as making oneself king on the mountain.

Instead of a food fight... We should be feeding on the Word.

If you want to insist upon calling Paul, by the name Saul?
Be my guest. Just teach what "Saul" taught correctly.

Too many good things are wasted because of human ambition.


then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others." Philippians 2:2-4

 

[GeneZ]

The name change was instantaneous. Look at the present tense of "have I made thee."

5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee. Gen. 17:4–5.

Agreed.

I don't believe Scripture speaks of a rapture and I don't hold to such fallacy. The men in white apparel said the way He's coming back is the way He went up.

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Acts 1:11.

He didn't rise/ascend, stay in the air for 3 1/2 years, and finally go to His Father.

Saul must've had some issues with pride. Still, he changed his name to be more acceptable to Gentiles. A missionary/evangelical gimmick.

Ah, you're talking about Peter's child. Good thing Peter was sent to fish for a coin from a fish's mouth to pay tax. No telling what he would have thought had he been there to hear Jesus say that about his kid. He might have made him/her an apostle like he did Matthias. Brash, impetuous, Peter. God love him. But he mellowed as an elder. And most importantly learned he has no authority to appoint apostles (or treasurers) and other things.

Saul, Saul! Simeon! Simeon!

Just a little something to help make things better....
And, good to note while studying the OT.

Jacob, and Israel?
Both the same person..
Israel was the new name.

Using "Jacob" was an indicator.
When the Lord called the Jews "Jacob" it indicated that Israel was doing something wrong.

When the Jews were pleasing to God?

He would refer to them as "Israel."



.........

 

[Complete]

Through the prophet Jeremiah God called Israel a green olive tree which has broken branches.​

16 The Lord called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken. Jeremiah 11:16.​

The broken branches represent unbelieving Israel.​

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, Rom. 11:20.​

The wild olive tree branches that are grafted into Israel are Gentile proselytes.​

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Rom. 11:17.​

Notice this does not say that members of the body of Christ are grafted into Israel.​

Saul was addressing Gentiles who are the wild olive tree, but he was not addressing members of the body of Christ in these passages because there are no Gentiles in the body of Christ. [?] The context of Romans 11 is the flesh, not the spirit. Writing to Jewish Christians and addressing the Gentiles Saul referenced his family, the Israelites, as “them which are my flesh.”​

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. Rom. 11:14.​

Jew and Gentile are terms of the flesh. They have to do with circumcision and uncircumcision in the flesh, and flesh is not spirit. The Church, the body of Christ in one new man which is spirit and is therefore not the subject matter of flesh.​

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13.​

In this body Saul says, as he takes away all attributes of the flesh:​

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Gal. 3:28.​

Of course, we are all living in bodies of flesh, and either a Jew or Gentile can believe Saul’s gospel, which is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and become a member of the body of Christ, however, circumcised Jew or uncircumcised Gentile is not in His spiritual body.​

18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Eph. 2:18.​

In the body of Christ we are not called “Jew” or “Gentile,” we are called “members.”​

.

27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular 1 Cor. 12:27.​

Saul stressed we know no man “after the flesh,” Jew or Gentile.​

16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: 2 Cor. 5:16a.​

In Christ, we lose the old fleshly titles of Jew and Gentile as they are then ‘passed away’ after salvation and we are then new creatures.​

17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 2 Cor. 5:17.​

We, the body of Christ have no relation to Israel which is a nation in the flesh analogous to an olive tree in Romans 11. The body of Christ is not analogous to a tree, nor does a body have branches. To state the obvious trees are rooted in the earth, and Israel was promised to inherit the earth and dwell in it forever, because Israel is a branch which God has planted in the earth which took root downward, and we can see this in some of the writings of the prophets.​

25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. Ezekiel 37:25.​

Do you notice terminology of plants or trees?​

6 He shall cause them that come of Jacob to take root:​

Israel shall blossom and bud,​

And fill the face of the world with fruit. Isaiah 27:6.​

So, Israel inherits the earth, but members of the body of Christ are promised new bodies that are eternal in the heavens.​

1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 Cor. 5:1.​

So, there is a big difference between Israel and the body of Christ. Israel inherits the earth eternally; the body of Christ are eternal in the heavens. Conversion did not make them Jews, but they were then to partake in the root and fatness of Israel’s tree and get their blessings.​

13 Those that be planted in the house of the Lord​

Shall flourish in the courts of our God.​

14 They shall still bring forth fruit in old age;​

They shall be fat and flourishing; Psalm 92:13–14.​

Before Saul was saved in Acts 9 (ca. A.D. 37) salvation was exclusively of the Jews, as Jesus said in John:​

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. John. 4:22.​

A Gentile had to convert to Judaism to be saved. Israel is likened to a natural olive tree planted in the earth, and Gentiles are likened to a wild olive tree which then can be grafted into them. Proselytes are the wild olive branches. Through faith, circumcision, religious works, they were grafted into Israel’s conditional salvific program which is a tree God prunes if it does not bear good fruit.​

Question: Who heard Peter preach Christ?​

Answer: Jews and proselytes.​

10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Acts 2:10.​

How many of them believed Peter and were Spirit (and water) baptized that day?​

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Acts 2:41.​

Which Church did the Ethiopian eunuch belong to after he believed Philip and was water baptized in Acts 8?​

27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,​

28 Was returning and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. Acts 8:27–28.​

The Ethiopian eunuch was on his way home from Jerusalem and it says he was there for worship because he was a proselyte. The Ethiopian eunuch wasn’t reading Saul, he was reading Isaiah. So, Philip certainly was not preaching the grace of God given exclusively to Saul for the building of the body of Christ. The Ethiopian proselyte joined the little flock of believing Israel Christ built upon Peter.​

​

And what about Cornelius, an Italian, who with his whole house heard Peter preach and received the Holy Ghost.​

1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,​

2 A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.​

Acts 10:1–2.​

This was a proselyte. Everyone outside of this was a heathen. Which Church are these Gentiles in? Certainly not the body of Christ. This is Peter preaching. They’re in a little flock of Israel. These are examples of proselytes. Gentiles believing in a future salvation through Israel. But membersof the body of Christ are already saved and not though Israel. They are saved by faith alone in Saul’s gospel (1 Cor. 15:1–4.)​

Proselytes are in Israel’s program. Members of the body of Christ have nothing to with Israel nor of Abraham, and there are no proselytes in the body of Christ. Read carefully to the doctrine, to these grafted wild olive branches.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Rom. 11:20–22.​

This is the very same conditional salvation God had warned Israel with since they came out of Egypt. There’s no peace with God in this doctrine. Only fear. This runs contradictory to how Saul addressed members of the body of Christ as being ‘sealed’ unto the day of redemption without the spirit of bondage to fear, but in the bond of peace.

For ye have NOT received the spirit of bondage again to FEAR; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Rom. 8:15.​

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,​

Eph. 1:12–13.​

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:​

Rom. 5:1.​

Body members are NOT grafted into Israel. Proselytes were in time past.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: Eph. 1:3.​

​

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk NOT AFTER THE FLESH [Jew and Gentile], but AFTER THE SPIRIT [Body of Christ].​

Rom. 8:1.​

The spiritual body of Christ is not grafted into the natural olive tree, which is Israel. Gentile proselytes are.

Hello @jeremiah1five,

I agree that the church which is the Body of Christ was not grafted into 'The Olive Tree of Israel': For it was not created as a company until the final rejection of Christ, by the nation of Israel, in the diaspora, at Acts 28, when Isaiah 6:9-10 was quoted, and salvation sent to the Gentiles (v.28). It was then in AD70 that the Olive Tree of Israel ceased to be: when Israel itself was destroyed.

The creation of the Body of Christ was designed to unify both believing Jew and Gentile into one joint body in Christ, which was both equal and unified. Neither having a prior position. A company which had Christ as it's Head, and in which the nation of Israel had no part.

This company is nourished by it's Head ( Christ Jesus the risen Lord ), Who also gives the increase. Though obviously consisting of separate members, they are identified as ONE, in Christ. Their blessings are all spiritual blessings, not comprising, 'basket and store', as Israel's blessings are, and will be enjoyed in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Their inheritance being in heavenly places, and not on the earth.

This company was not the subject of either the O.T. Prophets, or of the gospels, the Acts, the general epistles, the book of Revelation, or the early epistles of Paul, for it was not revealed to Paul, or made known to him until the end of the Acts period, after Acts 28, while in prison at Rome. For it was hidden in God since before the foundation of the world. Paul made it known in the epistles written to the Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1& 2 Timothy, Titus & Philemon. Doctrinally it is based on the foundation of Romans 5:12-8:39.

'And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery,
which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God,
Who created all things by Jesus Christ:
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places
might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
According to the eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
In Whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of Him.'
(Eph 3:9-12)

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

PS
Forgive my colouring in the verses in your OP, it made it easier for me to follow.
Scriptures given if requested (it is bedtime here in the UK )

 

[Johann]

The fact you keep calling Paul, "Saul" is what triggered me at first...
Like you are into some Jewish cultish mind set.

Even demons knew better to call him Paul, not Saul.

Acts 19:15​

​

And the evil spirit answered and said, “Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are you?”​

Why you chose that route makes no sense to me. No one called him by the old name God removed from him.
Made me think you have a strong bias that makes you bend the Word of God to fit your bias...

Just a suggestion. Drop the "Saul" and call him Paul, like everyone else did, including Paul himself.

When you do that? It makes you look like someone not to be believed.

grace and peace ..................

Think you have hit the nail right on the head.

 

[TomL]

deleted duplicate

 

[TomL]

Through the prophet Jeremiah God called Israel a green olive tree which has broken branches.

16 The Lord called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken. Jeremiah 11:16.

The broken branches represent unbelieving Israel.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, Rom. 11:20.

The wild olive tree branches that are grafted into Israel are Gentile proselytes.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Rom. 11:17.

Notice this does not say that members of the body of Christ are grafted into Israel.

Saul was addressing Gentiles who are the wild olive tree, but he was not addressing members of the body of Christ in these passages because there are no Gentiles in the body of Christ. The context of Romans 11 is the flesh, not the spirit. Writing to Jewish Christians and addressing the Gentiles Saul referenced his family, the Israelites, as “them which are my flesh.”

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. Rom. 11:14.

Jew and Gentile are terms of the flesh. They have to do with circumcision and uncircumcision in the flesh, and flesh is not spirit. The Church, the body of Christ in one new man which is spirit and is therefore not the subject matter of flesh.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Cor. 12:13.

Er all baptized en the spirit are in the body of Christ. This would include Cornelius and those of his house

Acts 11:12–18 (KJV 1900) — 12 And the spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man’s house: 13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Er all baptized en the spirit are in the body of Christ. This would include Cornelius and those of his house

Acts 11:12–18 (KJV 1900) — 12 And the spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man’s house: 13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Being in the body of Christ does not mean they are in covenant for the covenant is with Abram the Hebrew and his seed and Gentiles - circumcised proselytes or uncircumcised God-Fearers - are Gentile and NOT of his seed.
This is the requirement. One MUST be of Abraham's seed to be in covenant and inheritors of his promises of God.

 

[TomL]

Being in the body of Christ does not mean they are in covenant for the covenant is with Abram the Hebrew and his seed and Gentiles - circumcised proselytes or uncircumcised God-Fearers - are Gentile and NOT of his seed.
This is the requirement. One MUST be of Abraham's seed to be in covenant and inheritors of his promises of God.

Except

again

before

Ephesians 2:11–19 (ESV) — 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

after

13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

 

[jeremiah1five]

Except

again

before

Ephesians 2:11–19 (ESV) — 11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

They remained strangers to the covenants of promise. Saul does not have authority to draw up a covenant. There's already a covenant in place called the New Covenant in Jeremiah and that covenant as with all the other two covenants are with the House of Israel and Gentiles are not Hebrew and are definitely not the House of Israel. Saul does not say they are joined to the commonwealth of Israel (citizenship), and Saul does not say Gentiles are in the New Covenant for he would be lying as the covenants are with Abraham the Hebrew and his seed, the Mosaic Covenant is with the children of Israel, and the New Covenant is with the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes) and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes.) The only people that qualified as being citizens of the (political) commonwealth of Israel were circumcised proselytes and uncircumcised God-Fearers. And both groups were obedient to the Torah and even though were citizen were not considered 'Jew' nor were they considered included in any covenant for the Jews knew their LORD and they knew their Scripture and nowhere in their Scripture are Gentiles included in anything Hebrew/Jewish. Gentiles always go to this passage and try to bend it so that Gentiles are included in anything Jewry.

after

13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

Still not covenant but citizens of the political household of God. And Saul is talking about proselytes and God-Fearers. By the time of his Ephesian letter thousands and thousands of Jews became born-again and populated the Church and the Body of Christ.
Nice try.
God made no covenant with Gentiles. What bible are you reading? What heresy are you learning? Believe the Bible not your Constantinian Gentile heresy which seeks to replace Israel in the covenants or try to elbow their way into their covenants.
Stop the steal!

BELIEVE THE BIBLE! PAY ATTENTION!

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom
as concerning the flesh
Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom. 9:3–5.

Saul would never say Gentiles are in any covenant. There is nothing in the Hebrew Scripture of Torah/Law, Psalms, and Prophets of God making a covenant with Gentiles. All one need do is read Romans 9:3-5 to see this.

 

[TomL]

They remained strangers to the covenants of promise. Saul does not have authority to draw up a covenant. There's already a covenant in place called the New Covenant in Jeremiah and that covenant as with all the other two covenants are with the House of Israel and Gentiles are not Hebrew and are definitely not the House of Israel. Saul does not say they are joined to the commonwealth of Israel (citizenship), and Saul does not say Gentiles are in the New Covenant for he would be lying as the covenants are with Abraham the Hebrew and his seed, the Mosaic Covenant is with the children of Israel, and the New Covenant is with the House of Israel (ten northern kingdom tribes) and the House of Judah (two southern kingdom tribes.) The only people that qualified as being citizens of the (political) commonwealth of Israel were circumcised proselytes and uncircumcised God-Fearers. And both groups were obedient to the Torah and even though were citizen were not considered 'Jew' nor were they considered included in any covenant for the Jews knew their LORD and they knew their Scripture and nowhere in their Scripture are Gentiles included in anything Hebrew/Jewish. Gentiles always go to this passage and try to bend it so that Gentiles are included in anything Jewry.

Still not covenant but citizens of the political household of God. And Saul is talking about proselytes and God-Fearers. By the time of his Ephesian letter thousands and thousands of Jews became born-again and populated the Church and the Body of Christ.
Nice try.
God made no covenant with Gentiles. What bible are you reading? What heresy are you learning? Believe the Bible not your Constantinian Gentile heresy which seeks to replace Israel in the covenants or try to elbow their way into their covenants.
Stop the steal!

BELIEVE THE BIBLE! PAY ATTENTION!

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption,
and the glory,
and the covenants,
and the giving of the law,
and the service of God,
and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers,
and of whom
as concerning the flesh
Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom. 9:3–5.

Saul would never say Gentiles are in any covenant. There is nothing in the Hebrew Scripture of Torah/Law, Psalms, and Prophets of God making a covenant with Gentiles. All one need do is read Romans 9:3-5 to see this.

Sorry before they were

remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

after they were
r

. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

not strangers to the covenant

If youi want people to pay attention you need to stop denying the text

 

[jeremiah1five]

Sorry before they were

remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

after they were
r

. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,

not strangers to the covenant

If youi want people to pay attention you need to stop denying the text

Fellow citizens.
This doesn't mean "covenant."
But for your education this is what the LORD describes is a "covenant."
There is intent and there is language of covenant.

Noahic Covenant:
11 And I will establish my covenant with you; Gen. 9:11.

Abrahamic Covenant:
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:7.

New Covenant:
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD,
That I will make a new covenant
With the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer. 31:31.

And there are usually terms identified between the responsible contracting parties involved. These things are so that we can know what a covenant is and recognize without ambiguity that a covenant is being discussed and also entered into by contracting parties, and so that we are not led astray and see every discussion between individuals in Scripture as a "covenant" which is what mostly every Gentile who doesn't know God's Redemptive history try to pass off as a covenant.

Your hopeful understanding in Saul's Ephesian letter falls short of the biblical description of covenant. Another thing is that Ephesians is a personal letter from Saul to Jewish Christians at Ephesus and although Saul addresses his letter, as all his letters, to Jewish Christians he also discusses Gentile proselytes, Gentile God-Fearers, and uncircumcised, non-covenant Roman, Scythian, and Greek Gentiles (non-Jews) in his letters.
Genesis, on the other hand, is a historical document recording people, places, and events that transpired from the beginning of history in the Garden all the way to Joseph's death in Egypt. One would more likely find a covenant in the narrative of a historical document than a personal letter.
And still one more thing, there is type and shadow. Your use of Ephesians - although it falls short merely by being a personal letter - to try to prove a covenant would have to have precedence in the Old Testament and it doesn't because nowhere in the Hebrew Scripture of Torah/Law, Psalms, and Prophets is there any statement or narrative or prophecy of God making covenant with Gentiles. If there was something in the Old Testament (shadow) then we would find the substance or type of fulfillment in the New Covenant writings and there isn't any. If there's no Old Testament precedent, then there's no New Testament reality.

 

[mikesw]

I just read Romans chapter one from the perspective that Paul was speaking to the Jewish believers who were living amongst the Gentile believers.

With that in mind?

Now Romans one makes sense.

Thank you... I appreciate knowing that!

grace and peace ..............

I am sharing on the Book of Romans how Romans 1-2 makes better sense when speaking to a gentile-only audience. The stronger evidence does not come until the second half of Rom 3 and onwards though.

 

[synergy]

I am sharing on the Book of Romans how Romans 1-2 makes better sense when speaking to a gentile-only audience. The stronger evidence does not come until the second half of Rom 3 and onwards though.

That coincides very much with the fact that Jews were expelled from Rome from about 49 AD to 53 AD. So Paul's Roman Epistle was written mainly for Gentiles who made up the majority if not all of the Roman congregation. There is evidence of Jewish expulsion from Rome in Acts 18:2.

 

[mikesw]

That coincides very much with the fact that Jews were expelled from Rome from about 49 AD to 53 AD. So Paul's Roman Epistle was written mainly for Gentiles who made up the majority if not all of the Roman congregation. There is evidence of Jewish expulsion from Rome in Acts 18:2.

Right. The pieces seem to fit together to show only Jewish Christians were expelled with the idea that the synagogue leaders then could assure that this will make for peace among Jews left in Rome. The gentiles then were left outside of the synagogues and had to figure out their own way to worship.