Church worship was already structured around the New Covenant (the Eucharist) so the main parts were there. That can be seen from what archeologists found in the Roman Catacombs. Still there was bound to be some changes made as you said when the Gentiles did fully take fully over.
Who are they which are grafted into Israel?
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
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jeremiah1five
Well-known member
All the New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation were written by Jewish Christians to and for other Jewish Christians. With the Jews finding themselves in a new era of a New Covenant signed, sealed, and delivered by their Messiah named Jesus and applied by the Holy Spirit of Promise (a Promise given to Israel of twelve tribes), it took time for them to search the Hebrew Scriptures of Law, Psalms, and Prophets to make sense and understand exactly what was taking place in Israel among the Jews, and this they did come to understand with people like Saul, Apollos, Peter, James, John, and the rest of the Jews who wrote about the things whose lives were deeply impacted by the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Gentiles were the enemy of the Jews, and the Jews were the enemy of the Gentiles, whom they knew were unclean as taught by God. Gentiles knew nothing of the Jewish religion, and they couldn't care less. Everything that happened to the Jews was in accordance with the teachings in their Law, and in their Psalms, and in their prophets. It was a Jewish phenomenon that was taking place among Jewry, and for the next four decades as thousands and thousands of Jews were being touched in a more personal way by their God it was all written down in four gospels and letters among themselves, writings that centered around the Acts of the Holy Spirit of Promise.
God was moving among the Jews and everything taking place was theirs and theirs alone until a new era began with the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple. When this occurred God and His Christ halted the building of His Church, and a new religion began among Gentiles, a religion unmoored from its true, biblical, and Hebrew roots. And for the next 1900 years since then Gentiles have had their day in the sun but those days are quickly coming to a close. The Times of the Gentiles will end with the destruction of the nations, whether through global nuclear war or some unexpected cataclysmic event from space, the end will come, and judgment is coming upon the earth as God again turns His attention towards His Bride and Church, the covenant people of Israel, and soon all Israel, Solomon and David, and raising up kings and raising up judges to lead and guide His people the Hebrew nation through Moses and Samuel and the others, through the making of covenants and promises towards this people, that His first words in the New Covenant era are spoken to uncircumcised, idol-worshiping Gentiles? That would be the epitome of arrogance and pride. Gentiles contributed nothing towards God's covenant promises to Israel. They received not the Laws of God nor were there any prophets sent to them, they had no Scripture, no Lawgiver, no Messiah, no protection and provision from God, no covenant at all. And now Gentiles are going to take the writings of the Jews and turn around and say God wrote to them of this "so-great salvation"?
The evidence in Scripture is against such a high and lofty idea. It beggars' description to believe God has any respect towards Gentiles when the apple of His eye is Israel. As it said on His cross the accusation of this Jesus, the King of the Jews have any respect towards Gentiles? As the Scripture says:
17 All nations [Gentiles] before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.
and
24 And God heard their groaning, and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob.
25 And God looked upon the children of Israel, and God had respect unto them. Ex 2:23–25.
This is the Word of God to His Chosen people Israel.
Great. Thanks for sharing that again.
David Koberstein
Active member
The believing Gentiles are grafted in to the Olive Tree.
Shalom
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @David Koberstein,
That was true during the period covered by the book of the Acts of the Apostles, and the letters written during that time by Paul, but since the rejection both in the land and in the diaspora by Israel of The Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah and King (Acts 28:23-31), a new revelation was given to the Apostle Paul, in which the risen Christ revealed a new creation called, The Church which is The Body of Christ, in which believing Jew and Gentile come together as one body, with Christ as their Head, united and equal, in which Israel as a nation has no part. In AD 70 Israel was scattered among the nations, and the 'Olive tree', used by Paul as an illustration only, was no longer applicable.
The fellowship of the Church which is the Body of Christ is revealed in Ephesians (Eph.1:22-23), Philippians and Colossians, with 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon (Prison epistles), on the foundational truth of Romans 5:12 - 8:39.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Last edited:
Complete
Well-known member
Subject Heading:- Who are they which are grafted into Israel?
@jeremiah1five,
'But I say, Did not Israel know?
First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy
by them that are no people,
and by a foolish nation I will anger you.'
(Rom.10:19)
'I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall?
God forbid:
but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles,
for to provoke them to jealousy.'
(Rom.11:11)
* These verses tells you both 'Who?' and 'Why?'.
@jeremiah1five,
'But I say, Did not Israel know?
First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy
by them that are no people,
and by a foolish nation I will anger you.'
(Rom.10:19)
'I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall?
God forbid:
but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles,
for to provoke them to jealousy.'
(Rom.11:11)
* These verses tells you both 'Who?' and 'Why?'.
David Koberstein
Active member
I whole heartily disagree. The Olive Tree is still applicable today. Just as all the Old Testament Covenants are still enforce.
Shalom
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @David Koberstein,
Thank you for your response.
Israel will once again take up their God given role, when The Church which is The Body of Christ has fulfilled it's purpose in the will and purpose of God and been taken up. at the appearing of their Saviour, Lord and Head in glory. Israel will come to repentance, and become Priests unto God among the nations of the earth at that time.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Chris
David Koberstein
Active member
What is this Church that you are referring to? Is it the Messianic Churches in the B'rit Hadashah that Paul wrote letters to?
The Jewish
Didache is the early Church manual to the Gentiles written by the 12 Messianic Apostles. In the early Messianic Churches there were few Gentile believers. Today the Gentile believers greatly out number the Messianic believers. But to that end the Jewishness of the Gospel was gradually stripped away over time by the Gentiles to fit their narrative. So called Christianity was born out of Judaism . Shalom
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
God scattered His covenant people and exiled a great many Hebrews first the ten northern kingdom tribes were carried away by Assyria in 722 BC.
Then in 586 BC the kingdom of Judah (two tribes) was carried away by Babylon after they conquered Assyria and took many of the ten northern kingdom tribes back to Babylon as well.
In 522 BC Cyrus allowed Nehemiah to return to Israel to rebuild the wall of the city, etc., and only a remnant (about 10% of all living Hebrews) went with him. This left about 90% of all remaining Hebrews remaining in and around the places God scattered them including many remaining in Babylon and every Gentile land in between. From 522 BC to when Jesus was born is about 15-20 generations of Hebrews who grew up in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture. They were called Hellenized Jews. There was no Temple and not everyone remained faithful to their Hebrew culture - especially after being conquered by Assyria and Babylon.
The offspring of Assyrians and Babylonians with Hebrews lived in and around Samaria which was the capital of the northern kingdom. They were called Samaritans.
But where in the New Testament are the offspring of the two southern kingdom tribes (Judah and Benjamin) and Babylonians and other allies of Babylon mentioned in the NT? What are they called?
The Jews called those of mixed heritage Hebrews with the Assyrians "Samaritan" and did not call them "Jews."
But what did the two southern kingdom tribes mixed with Babylonians and Assyrians and other non-Hebrew Gentile allies of Babylon (don't forget Babylon conquered many peoples and were assimilated into Babylonian culture. But what were they called? What were the offspring of the mixed heritage Hebrews and Babylonians called? What did the Jews call these mixed heritage Hebrews and where in the NT is it mentioned?
David Koberstein
Active member
God scattered His covenant people and exiled a great many Hebrews first the ten northern kingdom tribes were carried away by Assyria in 722 BC.
Then in 586 BC the kingdom of Judah (two tribes) was carried away by Babylon after they conquered Assyria and took many of the ten northern kingdom tribes back to Babylon as well.
In 522 BC Cyrus allowed Nehemiah to return to Israel to rebuild the wall of the city, etc., and only a remnant (about 10% of all living Hebrews) went with him. This left about 90% of all remaining Hebrews remaining in and around the places God scattered them including many remaining in Babylon and every Gentile land in between. From 522 BC to when Jesus was born is about 15-20 generations of Hebrews who grew up in Gentile lands heavily influenced by Greek culture. They were called Hellenized Jews. There was no Temple and not everyone remained faithful to their Hebrew culture - especially after being conquered by Assyria and Babylon.
The offspring of Assyrians and Babylonians with Hebrews lived in and around Samaria which was the capital of the northern kingdom. They were called Samaritans.
But where in the New Testament are the offspring of the two southern kingdom tribes (Judah and Benjamin) and Babylonians and other allies of Babylon mentioned in the NT? What are they called?
The Jews called those of mixed heritage Hebrews with the Assyrians "Samaritan" and did not call them "Jews."
But what did the two southern kingdom tribes mixed with Babylonians and Assyrians and other non-Hebrew Gentile allies of Babylon (don't forget Babylon conquered many peoples and were assimilated into Babylonian culture. But what were they called? What were the offspring of the mixed heritage Hebrews and Babylonians called? What did the Jews call these mixed heritage Hebrews and where in the NT is it mentioned?
