Where in the Bible does God decree everything ?
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civic
Well-known member
Or better yet its called by another name fatalism.
Theological determinism can also be seen as a form of causal determinism, in which the antecedent conditions are the nature and will of God.[5] Some have asserted that Augustine of Hippo introduced theological determinism into Christianity in 412 CE, whereas all prior Christian authors supported free will against Stoic and Gnostic determinism.[25] However, there are many Biblical passages that seem to support the idea of some kind of theological determinism.
hope this helps !!!
Fatalism
Fatalism is normally distinguished from determinism,[17] as a form of teleological determinism. Fatalism is the idea that everything is fated to happen, resulting in humans having no control over their future. Fate has arbitrary power, and does not necessarily follow any causal or deterministic laws.[6] Types of fatalism include hard theological determinism and the idea of predestination, where there is a God who determines all that humans will do. This may be accomplished through either foreknowledge of their actions, achieved through omniscience[18] or by predetermining their actions.[19]Theological determinism can also be seen as a form of causal determinism, in which the antecedent conditions are the nature and will of God.[5] Some have asserted that Augustine of Hippo introduced theological determinism into Christianity in 412 CE, whereas all prior Christian authors supported free will against Stoic and Gnostic determinism.[25] However, there are many Biblical passages that seem to support the idea of some kind of theological determinism.
hope this helps !!!
A predetermined life to enable us to fulfill our self chosen goals or fate after which choice we then went astray into sin is not a bad thing; it is indeed a most laudable thing. It enables those lost in their sins to be brought to redemption and full sanctification the best, easiest and quickest way possible with the last suffering in our harsh discipline as we are trained in righteousness, Heb 12:5-11.
A life completely and exactly predetermined as a perfect response to our self willed sinful hearts so our eyes can be opened to our sinfulness and our need for a saviour is of immense value and is completely a horse of a different feather from the idea that predetermination causes our sinfulness rather than healing it for those who can be healed.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
It doesn't.
It is no wonder that when a Calvinist claims it does.... It is a scenario that only benefits them?
civic
Well-known member
You will notice a few examples that are used by calvinists which are the exception not the rule as we see with Joseph ( a type of Christ ) pharoah and Jesus. 3 unique circumstances in scripture and 2/3 were prophetic in nature used to fulfill Gods specific promises.
atpollard
Well-known member
What does the WCF say?
That sounds like something that they probably covered and included scripture references to support.
(Then we don’t need to waste time arguing with you over it … you can argue BOTH SIDES all by yourself.
)
atpollard
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
Like I said it doesn’t
eisegesis
atpollard
Well-known member
“Water at 4 degrees C is at its highest density, which means that at that precise point it will expand whether it is heated or cooled. Must that causal relationship necessarily hold true under identical circumstances? Or, could God have determined that water continue to become increasingly dense as it is cooled below 4 degrees C? Hopefully we recognize that God was not constrained to provide fish a safe haven in winter. God could have determined that the density of water continue to increase upon cooling it below 4 degrees C, in which case ice would not rise to the top.”
Determinism and Reformed Theology
Determinism and Reformed Theology
atpollard
Well-known member
Really?Like I said it doesn’t
[Psalm 33:11 NKJV] 11 The counsel of the LORD stands forever, The plans of His heart to all generations.
- So “the council of the LORD” does not stand forever, it changes over time in response to the Will of Men and other external forces?
- The “plans of His heart” are not to all generation, they are also capricious?
[Ephesians 1:11 NKJV] 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
- Then God DOESN’T work “ALL THINGS ACCORDING TO THE PURPOSE OF HIS WILL”?
- Whose Will does govern “all things” if God is not in control (as He said He was)?
[Hebrews 6:17 NKJV] 17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath,
- So God’s ”council” may be “immutable” (unchanging), but it is really more God offering suggestions that a CREATOR-KING commanding anything, right?
- Doesn’t sound very “OMNI-anything”, does it?
I have to seriously question who is guilty of the eisegesis.
Your Free Willie Bible must be a strange translation.
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Really?
[Psalm 33:11 NKJV] 11 The counsel of the LORD stands forever, The plans of His heart to all generations.
- So “the council of the LORD” does not stand forever, it changes over time in response to the Will of Men and other external forces?
- The “plans of His heart” are not to all generation, they are also capricious?
[Ephesians 1:11 NKJV] 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will,
- Then God DOESN’T work “ALL THINGS ACCORDING TO THE PURPOSE OF HIS WILL”?
- Whose Will does govern “all things” if God is not in control (as He said He was)?
[Hebrews 6:17 NKJV] 17 Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath,
- So God’s ”council” may be “immutable” (unchanging), but it is really more God offering suggestions that a CREATOR-KING commanding anything, right?
- Doesn’t sound very “OMNI-anything”, does it?
I have to seriously question who is guilty of the eisegesis.
Your Free Willie Bible must be a strange translation.
I just decided to change to my blue shirt. I have thwarted the counsel of the LORD with my free will, since I have it on good authority that I was supposed to wear my red shirt tonight. It was a direct revelation from God, with scriptural proof. See Shertz:20:15 (TBV). I will give a no-prize to anyone who is familiar with the TBV.
atpollard
Well-known member
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
Nobody here is familiar with the Totally Bogus Version (TBV)? Seems like some of you use it on a regular basis.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Yep. Imagination. You can do anything with your imagination. That doesn't have an basis in fact.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
Yes. Really.
Sure. God has plans. Why should they include you? That is the argument you're making. God has a plan. It is exactly what I said it is......
There is nothing in Psalm 33:11 that establishes your narrative. Nothing at all. Your argument is similar to a man telling his wife that he is always right. Everyone knows that it is not going to go well for that arrogant little man. The person in control will do as He pleases.
God can overpower anyone and anything at anytime. Power. Overwhelming power. It does matter if you freely sin. All it means is death for you. You can enjoy your sin. You pretend it doesn't matter. God will change your mind one day. Stop blaming God for you foolishness.
Who can change God? Man is certainly mutable. That is the issue here. YOU are mutable. The problem is YOU.
You're insisting your problems are God's problems.
I have to seriously question who is guilty of the eisegesis.
Your Free Willie Bible must be a strange translation.
All you did was make statements without evidence to establish your claims. There is nothing in any of these verses that makes God who you say He is.
In fact, you have an idol of your imaginations. I can tell because you idol doesn't have any power. You're calling out to it and it isn't answering.
civic
Well-known member
It’s more accurate than the JCV that you use 24/7. The the John Calvin Version
god decreed I say this at 5:45 AM PST.
hope this helps !!!
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civic
Well-known member
Bingo . I normally avoid the unbiblical rhetorical questions. It’s just a game for some that I’m not interested in playing
A rhetorical question fallacy is when the writer is trying to persuade the reader into believing his/her argument by only providing data that supports his/her stance while ignoring all evidence that conflicts with it. The fallacy relies upon context for its effect: the fact that a question presupposes something does not in itself make the question fallacious. Only when some of these presuppositions are not necessarily agreed to by the person who is asked the question does the argument containing them become fallacious
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atpollard
Well-known member
THIS was the question ...
@praise_yeshua answered it!
Go educate your buddy about his folly concerning @civic denying that God is in control. He refused to listen to me.
@praise_yeshua answered it!
(I agree, GOD is in control ... it was @civic that demanded PROOF from Scripture).
(I agree, GOD is all powerful and "does as He pleases" - to quote Corrie Ten Boom ... it was @civic that demanded PROOF from Scripture).
(I agree, NOBODY can change God ... it was @civic that demanded PROOF from Scripture and rejected those posted verses as proof).
Go educate your buddy about his folly concerning @civic denying that God is in control. He refused to listen to me.
civic
Well-known member
PY and I see eye to eye on this lol. Nice try though.THIS was the question ...
@praise_yeshua answered it!
(I agree, GOD is in control ... it was @civic that demanded PROOF from Scripture).
(I agree, GOD is all powerful and "does as He pleases" - to quote Corrie Ten Boom ... it was @civic that demanded PROOF from Scripture).
(I agree, NOBODY can change God ... it was @civic that demanded PROOF from Scripture and rejected those posted verses as proof).
Go educate your buddy about his folly concerning @civic denying that God is in control. He refused to listen to me.
God can do anything but restrains His Sovereignty.
He does not micro-manage every though, action and deed of mankind, thats just another false presupposition in Calvinism.
civic
Well-known member
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