What does the lucifer chapter refer to?
Where did original sin come from ?
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Adam followed Eve...what does your theology provide for us by supposing Adam directed Eve? Why ignore the role of the serpent?
e v e
Well-known member
adam
e v e
Well-known member
it's that chapter supposedly about lucifer in isaiah... but adam is the subject there.
e v e
Well-known member
adam was the caretaker of paradise
and eve and he betrayed God
the good and evil tree
represents the nature of the satanic realm
eden was a bulwark against...
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Is totally unimportant.
Eve, and then Adam IN THEIR CREATED PERFECTION, Followed the "Temptation sequence" detailed in James1:14,15 perfectly, were "Enticed by satan, and allowed their LUST (to be like GOD) to conceive, and they did exactly what God had WARNED THEM NOT TO DO, and instantly died Spiritually as the result of their sin. Their HUMAN NATURE NEVER CHANGED, and they WERE NOT CURSED (as the earth, and the serpent were).
And all of US follow the SAME SEQUENCE, and SIN in whatever way OUR LUST, plus satan's enticement leads us.
The only thing that made Adam's SIN "Original" was that it was the FIRST (actually the second, since Eve ate first) time that humans had SINNED.
The ONLY THING that I inherited from Adam was the same human nature he was created with, and I took it from there right into James 1:14,15. and fell short of God's glory just as soon as I could, like we all did.
The REALLY UNFORTUNATE THING that Adam did, in siding with satan against God, was that Adam gave over his God-given dominion (Gen 1:26) over the creation into satan's hands, and satan STILL HAS IT, and will keep possession of it until all things are judged at the end of the age.
e v e
Well-known member
I challenge human nature not changing. Adam and Eve did not possess the innate knowledge between right and wrong until after they ate. And once they ate, their minds were opened up and they instantly knew the difference. In their created state, they were without the ability to know between right and wrong for themselves. Only after sinning did they acquire the knowledge of right and wrong and become like God knowing the differences thereof. And now we have a conscience that we innately know morally what is right and wrong.
"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons"
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever".
"For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them"
God Bless
e v e
Well-known member
not knowing (=experiencing evil realm) did not mean they were not smart
or were ignorant. Innocence and ignorance are not the same thing....
What eden possessed was incredibly better than and more lovely
than any 'knowledge' of the evil realm.
That would be as if, to be aware I needed to be able to understand a sociopath.
I do not...
but the evil realm was jealous of eden and with adam s cooperation
made the mess we are in...
adam and eve perfectly well knew what is wrong and evil from God's point of view..
simply they did not know the good and evil thinking of the type possessed by God's enemy
= they did not know the way of thinking of good and evil mindset from the satanic point of view.
nothing they needed to know either.
Because of that sin, of touching the evil realm ... was acquired the carnal mind = the satanic point of view!!!
the conscience in this fallen paradigm
is not a good thing anyway..it is the prison ankle bracelet = satan always whispering lies..
Last edited:
Bronson
Active member
yes "satan always whispering lies.." And it's not hard for him to find human beings to repeat them. Don't drink the Kool-Aid.
e v e
Well-known member
Last edited:
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
It is clear Adam and Eve did not possess the ability to distinguish right and wrong on their own. This means they did not know what was right or wrong except when God told them. Once they ate from the tree their minds were opened and instantly realized they were naked. From this we deduce a change to their human nature happened that gave them an innate knowledge of right and wrong for themselves. Becoming like God in this aspect; knowing for themselves right and wrong.
Eve was misled by Satan to believe she would not die if she ate from the tree, but instead that she would benefit from eating from it. Adam on the other hand said he listened to Eve and ate. God even confirms this by saying, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife and have eaten of the tree of which I commanded you, ‘You shall not eat of it,’.
The wiles of Satan have not changed. He misleads people into sin by his "whispering lies", and uses them to influence others to follow along.
God Bless
e v e
Well-known member
we still do not possess it as the carnal mind gives that now
where before God did
but eve and then adam didn't listen to Him
and instead adam went to the enemy realm.
of course. and now it's the evil realms morals (this world) that tells us.
bad trade.
by evil
yes so sad they got uncovered ...
where before God was their protection.
yes 'for themselves' by the carnal will. of course the 'for themselves' was a lie because now the prison had started.
they were already alike Him - in His image.
now was a different image started.
well horrible adam left her unprotected so that satan could approach her.
um. best not to listen to that monster. he betrayed God.
now satan ruled them whereas before God did.
please read.
Last edited:
Adam and Eve did not possess the innate ability to know for themselves what was right and wrong until they ate from the tree. This is indisputable from the account given. Once they ate their minds were opened and they knew they were naked. Things changed for man at that moment. God even said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil."
Before eating from the tree the only way they knew something was wrong is when God commanded them not to do something. When God told them, they knew it was wrong; but this knowledge not innately of themselves but from God.
It is only after eating from the tree they became like God, knowing right and wrong themselves.
God Bless
Rockson
Well-known member
I'd put it this way. Adam and Eve didn't know evil or death from an experience standpoint until after they ate the fruit. They only knew it prior by what God said about it.
Yes the glory they were crowned with left them. Their spirits degenerated and with LIFE having departed they were naked. Think of the Mt of Transfiguration. The glory of God manifested and Jesus garments lit up with an intense white light. Mk 9:2 That was glory or think of looking at lightning. So bright....so intense with power....whiter than any fuller to whiten them.
Good news too. When you're born again you now have this treasure in your earthen vessel.....the glory of God. 2 Cor 4 The Glory is veiled but you do have it in you for God's word is in your heart, or to put it another way stop thinking God is a million miles away from you. He's not! Christ is in you the hope of glory.
That is true and to add, once they ate the fruit their minds were opened to know right and wrong like God. An attribute that in their original created state they did not possess.
My statement, "Once they ate their minds were opened and they knew they were naked. Things changed for man at that moment".
Your response, "Yes the glory they were crowned with left them".
I ask if you have any scriptural support for your understanding? Because I am not finding it mentioned in the Genesis account of the fall.
We do know from the account that man aquired the attribute of knowing right and wrong after eating the fruit, and had become like God knowing right and wrong. "Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good and evil. (Gen 3:22)"
We do know from scripture man was created a natural being. He was not a spiritual being. The life man had was the life of the body, a natural life until the advent of Jesus Christ.
Now we still live a natural life that dies, but we also live a spiritual life that will never die and results in this natural body being resurrected into a spiritual body that will never die.
So, I do agree with you in sorts that we are glorified by the Lord's presence in us, but we ourselves are not yet glorified being in the very likeness of Jesus Christ.
God Bless
Last edited:
Rockson
Well-known member
As for me I wouldn't call it an attribute.....just rather what they experienced.
Sure. Psalm 8: 4,6 states,
"What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
When it states he crowned mankind with glory (I won't say I can prove this absolute) but I tend to believe the glory was upon them....think of Moses coming down from the mountain....the glory of God upon his face so intense they had to put a veil over his face Ex 34:35 ....or think of Jesus at the Mt of Transfiguration his face shone like the sun and garments lit up with glory.....whiter than an fuller could whiten them. Mk 9:2 Making this simple think of garments so white and intense like sheet lightning. See also Mt 28:2,4 about an angel appearing at the resurrection.
And behold, there was a great earthquake; for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, approached, rolled back the stone, and sat upon it. His appearance was like lightning and his clothing was white as snow. The guards were shaken with fear of him and became like dead men. Matt 28: 2,4
So the question. If God is clothed in garments of light Psalm 104:2 (his glory, his all Might and Power) and angels are too....Why should we think MAN didn't have the same? Yes they were naked but they were not ashamed. Then sin came....they degenerated. God's glory left. Now physically naked God made them physical clothes.
e v e
Well-known member
Similar threads
