When You See JERUSALEM Surrounded By Armies, Luke 21

[Selah]

It is apparent that the Lord's prophecy in the book of Luke centers around Jerusalem.

Luke 21:5-7 5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 6 “These things which you see--the days will come in which not [one] stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.” 7 So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign [will there be] when these things are about to take place?”

In Luke 21:7, the disciples asked Jesus two questions: #1 When shall these things be? and #2 What sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

We find the answer to question 1 in verses 8-24, and the answer to question 2 in verses 25-28:

Luke 21:8-28 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am [He,]’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them. 9 “But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end [will] not [come] immediately.” 10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 “And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute [you,] delivering [you] up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 “But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 “Therefore settle [it] in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 “for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able tocontradict or resist. 16 “You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put [some] of you to death. 17 “And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 “But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 “By your patience possess your souls. 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 “men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 “Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.

And here it is in the books of Matthew and Mark:

Matthew 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Mark 13:14 So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Selah

 

[TomL]

It is apparent that the Lord's prophecy in the book of Luke centers around Jerusalem.

Luke 21:5-7 5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 6 “These things which you see--the days will come in which not [one] stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.” 7 So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign [will there be] when these things are about to take place?”

In Luke 21:7, the disciples asked Jesus two questions: #1 When shall these things be? and #2 What sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

We find the answer to question 1 in verses 8-24, and the answer to question 2 in verses 25-28:

Luke 21:8-28 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am [He,]’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them. 9 “But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end [will] not [come] immediately.” 10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 “And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute [you,] delivering [you] up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 “But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 “Therefore settle [it] in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 “for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able tocontradict or resist. 16 “You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put [some] of you to death. 17 “And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 “But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 “By your patience possess your souls. 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 “men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 “Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.

And here it is in the books of Matthew and Mark:

Matthew 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Mark 13:14 So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

View attachment 1647 Selah

The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

 

[Selah]

The destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

Are you a preterist then, Tom?

 

[Quintus5]

I dont think he has to be a full preterist to be convinced that this happened in 70 AD. The early Christians left before the Roman destruction believing what Christ told them. Here are some sources:
The idea that early Christians fled to Pella before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD is found in early church writings—not the Bible itself—but in historical sources from early Christian historians.


Here are primary sources:

“But the people of the church in Jerusalem had been commanded by a revelation, vouchsafed to approved men there before the war, to leave the city and to dwell in a certain town of Perea called Pella. And when those that believed in Christ had come thither from Jerusalem, then, as if the royal city of the Jews and the whole land of Judaea were entirely destitute of holy men, the judgment of God at last overtook those who had committed such outrages against Christ and his apostles, and totally destroyed that generation of impious men.”

Source: Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 3.5.3

Epiphanius of Salamis (c. 310–403 AD)​

He also mentions the flight to Pella.

“The Nazoraeans... acknowledged the resurrection of the dead and that all things were created by God, and they read the Law… Before the war, they left Jerusalem and went to live in Pella because they were warned to leave it, as it would be entirely destroyed.”

Epiphanius, Panarion29.7.7–8

Here is the timetable:

Christian Flight to Pella – Timetable​

66 AD — The First Jewish Revolt Begins

• Jewish rebels drive the Romans out of Jerusalem.
• The Roman procurator Florus is overthrown.
• Cestius Gallus marches to crush the revolt.

Late 66 AD — Roman Siege & Withdrawal

• Cestius Gallus surrounds Jerusalem.
• Christians recognize this as the sign Jesus spoke of:
  “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies...” (Luke 21:20).
• Gallus unexpectedly withdraws his troops.
• This brief lull allows Christians to flee the city.
• 
  
• 66–67 AD — Christians Flee to Pella
• Believers leave Jerusalem, crossing the Jordan River.
• They settle in Pella, a city in the Decapolis region.
• According to Eusebius and Epiphanius, they left by divine revelation.
• 70 AD — Destruction of Jerusalem
• Titus returns with Roman legions.
• Jerusalem is besieged and the Temple is destroyed.
• Jesus’ prophecy is fulfilled:
  “Not one stone will be left upon another.” (Matthew 24:2)
• Christians had already escaped, avoiding the slaughter.

​

---

---

 

[TomL]

Are you a preterist then, Tom?

Partial not full

 

[Selah]

Partial not full

oh, I see. thx, Tom.

 

[TomL]

oh, I see. thx, Tom.

Yes, There is a big difference between the two

 

[armylngst]

It is apparent that the Lord's prophecy in the book of Luke centers around Jerusalem.

Luke 21:5-7 5 Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 6 “These things which you see--the days will come in which not [one] stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down.” 7 So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign [will there be] when these things are about to take place?”

In Luke 21:7, the disciples asked Jesus two questions: #1 When shall these things be? and #2 What sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

We find the answer to question 1 in verses 8-24, and the answer to question 2 in verses 25-28:

Luke 21:8-28 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am [He,]’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore do not go after them. 9 “But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end [will] not [come] immediately.” 10 Then He said to them, “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 “And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 12 “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute [you,] delivering [you] up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name’s sake. 13 “But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 14 “Therefore settle [it] in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 15 “for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able tocontradict or resist. 16 “You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put [some] of you to death. 17 “And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. 18 “But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 19 “By your patience possess your souls. 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 “Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 24 “And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 25 “And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 26 “men’s hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 “Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 “Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.

And here it is in the books of Matthew and Mark:

Matthew 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Mark 13:14 So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

View attachment 1647 Selah

There are stark differences between Luke and Matthew, however. Notice how in Luke they are to look for the armies surrounding the city, and at that point they will know that the desolation of Jerusalem has come. That is the destruction Jesus has spoken of. In Matthew, it says when you see the desolation of abomination, flee because a great tribulation is coming. In Luke it talks about wars, rumors of wars, nation against nation, however it says that the persecution and tribulation of the church will come before this. In Matthew, it also speaks of wars, nation against nation, natural disasters, however it says that this comes before the persecution/tribulation of the church. It seems to be talking about two different events.

At the end of the tribulation of Jerusalem in Matthew, immediately after, Jesus returns and gathers up ALL the elect. In Luke, the event ends with the great diaspora, with all the Jews how survive being put to the sword, being scattered throughout the world. And then there is 1948, when the Jews start returning back to Israel which becomes a nation once again. Jesus also talks about Jerusalem being trampled upon by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. That is clearly seen throughout history, and the Gentiles still trample on Jerusalem today. Trump is one of the first world leaders to actually return a higher level of legitemacy to Jerusalem being the capital/heart of Israel by moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. The UN is constantly, along with others, attacking Israel and Jersualem. Things have changed A LOT in the past few decades, and Israel is finding it easier to get away with things now then in the past. (Such as having one of Aaron's descendants on the temple mount doing ceremonies.)

I am considering Luke 21 to be talking specifically about AD 70, while Matthew is speaking of a similar desolation, but at a later time. The questions are a little different in Luke and in Matthew, with the questions in Luke targeted more towards asking about AD 70.
“Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign [will there be] when these things are about to take place?”
When will what be? The destruction of Jersualem and the temple. What sign will there be for when the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple are about to take place.

In Matthew they ask: "3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

Since Jesus did not return in 70AD, what the disciples are asking is in relation to His coming. (Term of royalty, as in coming into the kingdom. [millennial kingdom?] In Luke they asked for signs of Jerusalem and the temple about to be destroyed. In Matthew, written for the Jews, it was much more steeped in Old Testament, Jewish eschatology. The great tribulation that Jesus mentions here may be related to the days of Jacobs trouble in the Old Testament, and to Zechariah.

 

[mikesw]

There are stark differences between Luke and Matthew, however. Notice how in Luke they are to look for the armies surrounding the city, and at that point they will know that the desolation of Jerusalem has come. That is the destruction Jesus has spoken of. In Matthew, it says when you see the desolation of abomination, flee because a great tribulation is coming. In Luke it talks about wars, rumors of wars, nation against nation, however it says that the persecution and tribulation of the church will come before this. In Matthew, it also speaks of wars, nation against nation, natural disasters, however it says that this comes before the persecution/tribulation of the church. It seems to be talking about two different events.

At the end of the tribulation of Jerusalem in Matthew, immediately after, Jesus returns and gathers up ALL the elect. In Luke, the event ends with the great diaspora, with all the Jews how survive being put to the sword, being scattered throughout the world. And then there is 1948, when the Jews start returning back to Israel which becomes a nation once again. Jesus also talks about Jerusalem being trampled upon by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. That is clearly seen throughout history, and the Gentiles still trample on Jerusalem today. Trump is one of the first world leaders to actually return a higher level of legitemacy to Jerusalem being the capital/heart of Israel by moving the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. The UN is constantly, along with others, attacking Israel and Jersualem. Things have changed A LOT in the past few decades, and Israel is finding it easier to get away with things now then in the past. (Such as having one of Aaron's descendants on the temple mount doing ceremonies.)

I am considering Luke 21 to be talking specifically about AD 70, while Matthew is speaking of a similar desolation, but at a later time. The questions are a little different in Luke and in Matthew, with the questions in Luke targeted more towards asking about AD 70.
“Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign [will there be] when these things are about to take place?”
When will what be? The destruction of Jersualem and the temple. What sign will there be for when the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple are about to take place.

In Matthew they ask: "3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

Since Jesus did not return in 70AD, what the disciples are asking is in relation to His coming. (Term of royalty, as in coming into the kingdom. [millennial kingdom?] In Luke they asked for signs of Jerusalem and the temple about to be destroyed. In Matthew, written for the Jews, it was much more steeped in Old Testament, Jewish eschatology. The great tribulation that Jesus mentions here may be related to the days of Jacobs trouble in the Old Testament, and to Zechariah.

There are some differences between Luke and Matthew. Luke has to explain the warning of judgment of Jerusalem in a fashion that gentiles could understand. The gentiles, especially in an evangelistic gospel message, would not be aware of the symbology and situation of Jerusalem as Jews would be in this first century context.

 

[JLB]

I dont think he has to be a full preterist to be convinced that this happened in 70 AD. The early Christians left before the Roman destruction believing what Christ told them. Here are some sources:
The idea that early Christians fled to Pella before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD is found in early church writings—not the Bible itself—but in historical sources from early Christian historians.


Here are primary sources:



Source: Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History 3.5.3

Epiphanius of Salamis (c. 310–403 AD)​

He also mentions the flight to Pella.


Here is the timetable:

Christian Flight to Pella – Timetable​

66 AD — The First Jewish Revolt Begins

• Jewish rebels drive the Romans out of Jerusalem.
• The Roman procurator Florus is overthrown.
• Cestius Gallus marches to crush the revolt.

Late 66 AD — Roman Siege & Withdrawal

• Cestius Gallus surrounds Jerusalem.
• Christians recognize this as the sign Jesus spoke of:
  “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies...” (Luke 21:20).
• Gallus unexpectedly withdraws his troops.
• This brief lull allows Christians to flee the city.
• 
  
• 66–67 AD — Christians Flee to Pella
• Believers leave Jerusalem, crossing the Jordan River.
• They settle in Pella, a city in the Decapolis region.
• According to Eusebius and Epiphanius, they left by divine revelation.
• 70 AD — Destruction of Jerusalem
• Titus returns with Roman legions.
• Jerusalem is besieged and the Temple is destroyed.
• Jesus’ prophecy is fulfilled:
  “Not one stone will be left upon another.” (Matthew 24:2)
• Christians had already escaped, avoiding the slaughter.

​

---

---

Jesus is teaching from the prophet Zechariah.

Luke 21, Matthew 24 is about His coming and the day of the LORD, not about the events of 70 AD.


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
Zechariah 14:1-3


Did Jesus fight for the city of Jerusalem in 70AD?

 

[TomL]

There are some differences between Luke and Matthew. Luke has to explain the warning of judgment of Jerusalem in a fashion that gentiles could understand. The gentiles, especially in an evangelistic gospel message, would not be aware of the symbology and situation of Jerusalem as Jews would be in this first century context.

Yep

Luke 21:20–24 (NASB95) — 20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. 21 “Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; 22 because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled. 23 “Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land and wrath to this people; 24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

 

[mikesw]

Jesus is teaching from the prophet Zechariah.

Luke 21, Matthew 24 is about His coming and the day of the LORD, not about the events of 70 AD.


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
Zechariah 14:1-3


Did Jesus fight for the city of Jerusalem in 70AD?

Did there fail to be remnant of Jerusalem who followed Christ without dying in Jerusalem? Another detail to consider is that Jewish Christians arrived to the Mount Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem

Hebrews 12:22 (ESV)
22But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,

Also, Jesus is identified as the prince in Daniel 7:13-14. The people who attack are the Roman armies, but actually of nations neighboring Jerusalem under Roman authority. We see in an 8:24-25 he destroys many and then is stopped -- but not by human hand. This fight then is after the Romans have destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. The Roman army is called "the people of the prince."

And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. (Dan 9:26 ESV)​

Recognition of this timing should not be an affront to the Christians. Neither should anyone expect that God would again destroy Jerusalem and a temple out of spite. Instead, we may have to recognize that Revelation is designed to inform and comfort those of the first century who were suffering great persecution. Nor should Christians feel they have lost their benefits in Christ, as if the benefits ceased in the first century. Instead, we see in Rev 20:5 that John's vision was of the first resurrection. It should be recognized that Rev 20:11-15 is not the next resurrection since those being judged were actually, in the terminology of Dan 12:2-3, being awakened. That means that the last resurrection still remains in the future.

The city that the remnant or followers of Christ from Jerusalem (or really all Christians of that era) became part of the heavenly continuation of Jerusalem -- the Jerusalem from above (Gal 4:26). It seems that the prophecy of Zech 14:1-3 (and similar passages) refer to the city in a physical sense that would give hope within human imagery but was ultimately being fulfilled in a heavenly rendition -- see Heb 11:10 (with v13)

For he was looking forward to the city that has foundations, whose designer and builder is God

Is not the concern of preterism actually a concern of a loss of hope and future for Christians? But this understanding of Revelation is not of a future eschatology but represents the turmoil of transitioning from the era of the Mosaic law into the era of Christ. That involves a great upheaval, which is what we find in Matt 24 and history itself.

 

[JLB]

Did there fail to be remnant of Jerusalem who followed Christ without dying in Jerusalem? Another detail to consider is that Jewish Christians arrived to the Mount Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem

Also, Jesus is identified as the prince in Daniel 7:13-14. The people who attack are the Roman armies, but actually of nations neighboring Jerusalem under Roman authority. We see in an 8:24-25 he destroys many and then is stopped -- but not by human hand. This fight then is after the Romans have destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. The Roman army is called "the people of the prince."



Recognition of this timing should not be an affront to the Christians. Neither should anyone expect that God would again destroy Jerusalem and a temple out of spite. Instead, we may have to recognize that Revelation is designed to inform and comfort those of the first century who were suffering great persecution. Nor should Christians feel they have lost their benefits in Christ, as if the benefits ceased in the first century. Instead, we see in Rev 20:5 that John's vision was of the first resurrection. It should be recognized that Rev 20:11-15 is not the next resurrection since those being judged were actually, in the terminology of Dan 12:2-3, being awakened. That means that the last resurrection still remains in the future.

The city that the remnant or followers of Christ from Jerusalem (or really all Christians of that era) became part of the heavenly continuation of Jerusalem -- the Jerusalem from above (Gal 4:26). It seems that the prophecy of Zech 14:1-3 (and similar passages) refer to the city in a physical sense that would give hope within human imagery but was ultimately being fulfilled in a heavenly rendition -- see Heb 11:10 (with v13)


Is not the concern of preterism actually a concern of a loss of hope and future for Christians? But this understanding of Revelation is not of a future eschatology but represents the turmoil of transitioning from the era of the Mosaic law into the era of Christ. That involves a great upheaval, which is what we find in Matt 24 and history itself.

You seem to have quite a few questions here.

Please have the courtesy to answer my one question?


I asked this question.

• Did Jesus fight for the city of Jerusalem in 70AD?

Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
Zechariah 14:1-3


Jesus is teaching from the prophet Zechariah in Luke 21, Matthew 24.

His coming and the day of the LORD, not about the events of 70 AD.

It’s about the end of the age.

 

[mikesw]

You seem to have quite a few questions here.

Please have the courtesy to answer my one question?


I asked this question.

• Did Jesus fight for the city of Jerusalem in 70AD?

Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
Zechariah 14:1-3


Jesus is teaching from the prophet Zechariah in Luke 21, Matthew 24.

His coming and the day of the LORD, not about the events of 70 AD.

It’s about the end of the age.

Yes. Maybe you heard of him as the Messiah that subdues the Roman army. Sorry if it was not clear that the Roman armies and Rome itself were destroyed and that that was by the hand of Christ. The end of the Roman Empire as a super power is pretty well recognized historically.

I know this is quite a shift from common perspectives but this manner of reading prophecy seems to be the only way that prophecies like Zech 14:1-3 could make sense. Of course it can be hard to re-evaluate scripture in this fashion. I think it requires an evaluation of the focus on Israel in OT prophecy that has essentially be overlooked.

 

[JLB]

Sorry if it was not clear that the Roman armies and Rome itself were destroyed and that that was by the hand of Christ.

Can you provide scripture that says the Lord Jesus Christ destroyed the Roman armies in 70 AD?

Titus the Roman General returned to Rome as a conquering hero, and was eventually made Ceaser.

 

[JLB]

I know this is quite a shift from common perspectives but this manner of reading prophecy seems to be the only way that prophecies like Zech 14:1-3 could make sense. Of course it can be hard to re-evaluate scripture in this fashion. I think it requires an evaluation of the focus on Israel in OT prophecy that has essentially be overlooked.

Zechariah 14 is certainly not about the events of 70 AD.


Roman soldiers destroyed the city and sanctuary.

The Roman army and General Titus returned to Rome with a hero’s welcome.


Zechariah 14 is about the Day of the Lord, when Jesus Christ returns and establishes His reign in Jerusalem.


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Zechariah 14:1-4


The Mount of Olives is still there, as it hasn’t been slit into making a large valley.


Here is what happens to the many of the army that fought against Jerusalem.

And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Zechariah 14:12


This certainty didn’t happen in 70AD.



And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zechariah 14:16-17


Jesus will literally dwell in Jerusalem and be King over the whole earth.


The nations will come to worship Him year after year.


Do the nations come to Jerusalem year after year to worship Jesus Christ?


This prophecy is yet to come.


This is what will happen at the Second Coming of Christ.






.

 

[mikesw]

Can you provide scripture that says the Lord Jesus Christ destroyed the Roman armies in 70 AD?

Titus the Roman General returned to Rome as a conquering hero, and was eventually made Ceaser.

Does Rome still exist or has the opportunity to overcome Israel's oppression under Rome remained unavenged? Will that happen despite the lack of a Roman Empire existing anymore?

 

[JLB]

Does Rome still exist or has the opportunity to overcome Israel's oppression under Rome remained unavenged? Will that happen despite the lack of a Roman Empire existing anymore?

Yes Rome exists.

It’s now called the Vatican.


Did Rome exist after 70 AD.

Yes. For over 400 years.

 

[JLB]

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zechariah 14:16-17


Jesus will literally dwell in Jerusalem and be King over the whole earth.


The nations will come to worship Him year after year.


Do the nations come to Jerusalem year after year to worship Jesus Christ?

 

[mikesw]

Zechariah 14 is certainly not about the events of 70 AD.


Roman soldiers destroyed the city and sanctuary.

The Roman army and General Titus returned to Rome with a hero’s welcome.


Zechariah 14 is about the Day of the Lord, when Jesus Christ returns and establishes His reign in Jerusalem.


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Zechariah 14:1-4

First of all, I think what pre-Mil people imagine as God's intervention at a tough time will actually be fulfilled by an alternative passage, namely Rev 20:7-10. So we still would see God's hand for our benefit, as the camp of the saints, at a critical moment.

Now for the issues raised ...

Do you recognize apocalyptic language or is this only interpreted in a literal physical sense? What does this mean since Jerusalem of the OT was obliterated? Is that supposed to happen again just out of God just liking to make the physical Jerusalem a repeated target?
Anyone who wants to hear an alternate meaning from that can listen to Steve Gregg

https://thenarrowpath.com/audio/verse-by-verse/zechariah/09_2015_Zechariah_14.1-5.mp3

Few people would want to hear that though.

Here is what happens to the many of the army that fought against Jerusalem.

And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Zechariah 14:12


This certainty didn’t happen in 70AD.

What did not ever happen? do you have insight into the interpretation that the original audience would give of this verse?

Yes Rome exists.

It’s now called the Vatican.


Did Rome exist after 70AD

Did Rome remain a dominant power for a lingering time afterwards in accord with Daniel? Yes. Can God be seen as the one to end Rome by his power? Yes. Does the scripture refer to some unusual splinter from Christianity being the Roman Empire? Not that I know of.

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zechariah 14:16-17


Jesus will literally dwell in Jerusalem and be King over the whole earth.

So I assume you think Jesus failed to be Christ.

The nations will come to worship Him year after year.


Do the nations come to Jerusalem year after year to worship Jesus Christ?

I presume you have entered the Jerusalem above and are a worshiper of God (Gal 4:26 of Jerusalem above). I suppose if not, we can share the gospel with you.

Anyhow, you can be convinced by what you believe or see if it stands scrutiny.