When You See JERUSALEM Surrounded By Armies, Luke 21

[mikesw]

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zechariah 14:16-17


Jesus will literally dwell in Jerusalem and be King over the whole earth.


The nations will come to worship Him year after year.


Do the nations come to Jerusalem year after year to worship Jesus Christ?

Do you expect billions of people to fly to Jerusalem each year. How will that be managed? What size airport is needed for this?
Would it be possible first that this refers to people in Christ and that the nations that came against Jerusalem were those basically who were alive at the attack of Jerusalem around AD66-70 rather than some repeat of a giant attack on Jerusalem?
In a similar sense, you have to ask what nations could be represented as being able to attack Jerusalem. This does not say all nations attacked Jerusalem but rather speaks of a narrow set of nations who attacked Jerusalem.

 

[mikesw]

Zechariah 14 is certainly not about the events of 70 AD.


Roman soldiers destroyed the city and sanctuary.

The Roman army and General Titus returned to Rome with a hero’s welcome.


Zechariah 14 is about the Day of the Lord, when Jesus Christ returns and establishes His reign in Jerusalem.


Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Zechariah 14:1-4

Do you recognize apocalyptic language or is this only interpreted in a literal physical sense? What does this mean since Jerusalem of the OT was obliterated? Is that supposed to happen again just out of God liking to make the physical Jerusalem a repeated target?
Anyone who wants to hear an alternate meaning from that can listen to Steve Gregg

https://thenarrowpath.com/audio/verse-by-verse/zechariah/09_2015_Zechariah_14.1-5.mp3

Few people would want to hear that though.

Here is what happens to the many of the army that fought against Jerusalem.

And this shall be the plague with which the LORD will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem:
Their flesh shall dissolve while they stand on their feet,
Their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets,
And their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths.
Zechariah 14:12


This certainty didn’t happen in 70AD.

What did not ever happen? do you have insight into the interpretation that the original audience would give of this verse?

Yes Rome exists.

It’s now called the Vatican.


Did Rome exist after 7

And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zechariah 14:16-17


Jesus will literally dwell in Jerusalem and be King over the whole earth.


The nations will come to worship Him year after year.


Do the nations come to Jerusalem year after year to worship Jesus Christ?


This prophecy is yet to come.


This is what will happen at the Second Coming of Christ.






.

 

[JLB]

First of all, I think what pre-Mil people imagine as God's intervention at a tough time will actually be fulfilled by an alternative passage, namely Rev 20:7-10. So we still would see God's hand for our benefit, as the camp of the saints, at a critical moment.

Now for the issues raised ...

Do you recognize apocalyptic language or is this only interpreted in a literal physical sense? What does this mean since Jerusalem of the OT was obliterated? Is that supposed to happen again just out of God just liking to make the physical Jerusalem a repeated target?
Anyone who wants to hear an alternate meaning from that can listen to Steve Gregg

https://thenarrowpath.com/audio/verse-by-verse/zechariah/09_2015_Zechariah_14.1-5.mp3

Few people would want to hear that though.



What did not ever happen? do you have insight into the interpretation that the original audience would give of this verse?


Did Rome remain a dominant power for a lingering time afterwards in accord with Daniel? Yes. Can God be seen as the one to end Rome by his power? Yes. Does the scripture refer to some unusual splinter from Christianity being the Roman Empire? Not that I know of.


So I assume you think Jesus failed to be Christ.

I presume you have entered the Jerusalem above and are a worshiper of God (Gal 4:26 of Jerusalem above). I suppose if not, we can share the gospel with you.

Anyhow, you can be convinced by what you believe or see if it stands scrutiny.

None of this addresses my post or answers the question I asked.


And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zechariah 14:16-17


Jesus will literally dwell in Jerusalem and be King over the whole earth.


The nations will come to worship Him year after year.

Question:

Do the nations come to Jerusalem year after year to worship Jesus Christ today?

 

[JLB]

Do you expect billions of people to fly to Jerusalem each year. How will that be managed? What size airport is needed for this?

After the resurrection we will be like the angels.


But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36


If you have a body that can die, then it is still “this age”.

• But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore,

In the age to come, (that age) we will be equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

 

[mikesw]

None of this addresses my post or answers the question I asked.


And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. Zechariah 14:16-17


Jesus will literally dwell in Jerusalem and be King over the whole earth.


The nations will come to worship Him year after year.

Question:

Do the nations come to Jerusalem year after year to worship Jesus Christ today?

Again, do you think billions of people are going to travel each year to Jerusalem? How it that possible?

Maybe you can consider this is text giving imagery of people faithful to God which, for many Jews, would be going to the temple each year. This is symbolic or analogy.

 

[mikesw]

After the resurrection we will be like the angels.


But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36


If you have a body that can die, then it is still “this age”.

• But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore,

In the age to come, (that age) we will be equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

you kind of would have to die to ever be resurrected. Have you already died to check this out?

That age is of Christ's reign. The start of that reign is in the first century.

Have you met the dead? (I certainly hope not.) Like noted, this resurrection of Rev 20:4-6 is the first one, not our common physical resurrection. Consider that this one is not physical since they are like angels, not like physical beings.

 

[JLB]

Again, do you think billions of people are going to travel each year to Jerusalem? How it that possible?

Maybe you can consider this is text giving imagery of people faithful to God which, for many Jews, would be going to the temple each year. This is symbolic or analogy.

Answer my questions or don’t bother addressing me again, because all you do is deny God’s word because you have erred concerning the truth, and your doctrine is like a cancer that spreads among God’s people.

And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18


Yes. I believe people will travel to Jerusalem to worship Jesus Christ every year after He returns.

Jesus will literally dwell in Jerusalem and be King over the whole earth.


The nations will come to worship Him year after year.

Question:

Do the nations come to Jerusalem year after year to worship Jesus Christ today?



This will be after the resurrection.

After the resurrection we will be like the angels.


But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36

• If you have a body that can die, then it is still “this age”, and Jesus hasn’t returned.

• But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore,

In the age to come, (that age) we will be equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

 

[JLB]

That age is of Christ's reign. The start of that reign is in the first century.

Have you met the dead? (I certainly hope not.) Like noted, this resurrection of Rev 20:4-6 is the first one, not our common physical resurrection. Consider that this one is not physical since they are like angels, not like physical beings.

And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

You seem to have quite a few questions here.

Please have the courtesy to answer my one question?


I asked this question.

• Did Jesus fight for the city of Jerusalem in 70AD?

Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
Zechariah 14:1-3


Jesus is teaching from the prophet Zechariah in Luke 21, Matthew 24.

His coming and the day of the LORD, not about the events of 70 AD.

It’s about the end of the age.

Lets see , DID JESUS fight for the city of Jerusalem in seventy AD .
NO SIR . HE had warned them this was to come upon them for their rejection of HIM .
Many do mess things up my friend .
THEY Keep looking to the earthen when it should have been THE HEAVENLY .
THAT IS the JERSUALEM GOD will fight for as He lays down wrath against all
who had come against it . ALL beleivers in CHRIST , the beleiving jew and gentile
ARE OF THAT CITY . the earthen , those who walk after the flesh , ARE NOT .
Even james quoates AMOS when speaking of the heavenly . I WILL BUILD AGAIN the ruins of david
the tabernacle that has fallen . HE DID SO . ITS ALL HEAVENLY NOW
and can no evil enter therein to defile it . ONLY those in CHRIST are in This Great Jersualem
which is above and by the SPIRIT within the sheep . A major battle of all battles is brewing in this last hour .
One who has come in his own name to convince this people that HE is LOVE and GOD
is drawing many right into the lie of anti christ . It has made the road very broad , sin accepting
unbelief accepting . IT has promised them a great and mighty TOWER that reaches to heaven .
And many now build in this inclusive interfaith tower
believing it is the way to GOD , that it does and will reach to heaven .
BUT ITS ALL COMING DOWN on the day of the LORD . IT omitted the CORNER STONE
it omitted the dire need TO BELIEVE ON JESUS the CHRIST
and it accepted sins too .

 

[Red Baker]

Luke 21:20​

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”

The army here are NOT Romans, but Gog and Magog, the anti-christians kingdoms of this world! Jerusalem is NOT the literal city in the middle eat, but the beloved city of Zion, God's elect from every corner of the earth!

Revelation 20:8,9​

“And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

I'm marking this to come back later for discussion.

 

[armylngst]

There are some differences between Luke and Matthew. Luke has to explain the warning of judgment of Jerusalem in a fashion that gentiles could understand. The gentiles, especially in an evangelistic gospel message, would not be aware of the symbology and situation of Jerusalem as Jews would be in this first century context.

The differences are night and day. In Luke, the earthquakes, natural disasters, nation against nation, etc. comes AFTER the persecution of the church. In matthew, they come BEFORE the persecution of the church. And the difference is striking in that we have, presented in Luke, what the view of the persecution is. Stephen, Paul, Peter, and a lot of the martyrs had a chance, as Jesus said in Luke, to testify of God before dying. That isn't mentioned in Matthew, which points to it not being the same persecution. A different persecution. Book ends to the natural disasters, rumors of wars, nation against nation that comes after the persecution in Luke, but before the persecution in Matthew. The persecution Luke mentions doesn't end until the 4th century.

The Jews understood their own eschatology, so Matthew makes sense to them. The Gentiles have no clue about Jewish eschatology, so giving to them the future fulfillment would make no sense to them. Giving them AD 70 would make sense. The only bit of eschatology they get with that is that Jerusalem would be trampled by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled.

 

[mikesw]

And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18

If I understand you correctly, any time that anyone has recognized the fulfillment of scripture then you will call it an overthrowing of the faith despite the 2000 year interval since those verses were written. That is quite incredible that Paul's point is taken as applicable forever.
One thing to notice if discussing these verses seriously is that this first resurrection could possibly happen without Christians observing obvious signs of it. Otherwise, no one would have fallen for their claims. I then have to question your basis for applying this scripture without recognition of a specific context -- like time written and situation at hand.
Additionally, since their claim could have convinced people that it happened despite seeing empty graves, have you considered it may not be something visible for you to have noticed it?

 

[mikesw]

Luke 21:20​

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”

The army here are NOT Romans, but Gog and Magog, the anti-christians kingdoms of this world! Jerusalem is NOT the literal city in the middle eat, but the beloved city of Zion, God's elect from every corner of the earth!

Revelation 20:8,9​

“And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

I'm marking this to come back later for discussion.

Okay. I think you get Rev 20:8-9 right. However, Luke 21 is distinctly different since Jerusalem was devastated but the Christians in Rev 20:8-9 were protected from any harm since these enemies were destroyed without making their attack.

 

[mikesw]

Answer my questions or don’t bother addressing me again, because all you do is deny God’s word because you have erred concerning the truth, and your doctrine is like a cancer that spreads among God’s people.

And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort, who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some. 2 Timothy 2:17-18


Yes. I believe people will travel to Jerusalem to worship Jesus Christ every year after He returns.

Jesus will literally dwell in Jerusalem and be King over the whole earth.


The nations will come to worship Him year after year.

Question:

Do the nations come to Jerusalem year after year to worship Jesus Christ today?



This will be after the resurrection.

After the resurrection we will be like the angels.


But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36

• If you have a body that can die, then it is still “this age”, and Jesus hasn’t returned.

• But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore,

In the age to come, (that age) we will be equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

You neglect the poetic sense of Zephaniah. Really you should check out the link to Steve Gregg's sharing on Zephaniah since he started out from your perspective (as superficially discerned by me) and saw too many links to the gospels (or the gospels to Zephaniah) that make it unlikely to also apply Zephaniah to a yet-future meaning. He notes further that Zephaniah 14 is very difficult to understand. It is not conducive to a shallow reading.

As to the billions concept, I may concede something to you. There are not billions but maybe you can explain why Jerusalem would have to be attacked again and why only a small portion are survivors who attack Jerusalem. Are these local nations involved? And are you denying that prophecy can be challenging, especially when overly focused on a literal interpretation?

 

[mikesw]

The differences are night and day. In Luke, the earthquakes, natural disasters, nation against nation, etc. comes AFTER the persecution of the church. In matthew, they come BEFORE the persecution of the church. And the difference is striking in that we have, presented in Luke, what the view of the persecution is. Stephen, Paul, Peter, and a lot of the martyrs had a chance, as Jesus said in Luke, to testify of God before dying. That isn't mentioned in Matthew, which points to it not being the same persecution. A different persecution. Book ends to the natural disasters, rumors of wars, nation against nation that comes after the persecution in Luke, but before the persecution in Matthew. The persecution Luke mentions doesn't end until the 4th century.

The Jews understood their own eschatology, so Matthew makes sense to them. The Gentiles have no clue about Jewish eschatology, so giving to them the future fulfillment would make no sense to them. Giving them AD 70 would make sense. The only bit of eschatology they get with that is that Jerusalem would be trampled by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles is fulfilled.

So you are saying that despite Matthew and Luke having all the same elements in view that they cannot be the same event? Then you are saying that Jerusalem has to be destroyed again even though it was judged in finality by the loss of the Temple? That seems like too fine of a line to draw. You are asking for Jews to again be so misbehaved that they have to then build another temple and do this all over again. Christians again will have to flee Jerusalem (Matt 24:15-16). Within this destruction, a fresh crop of the elect will live on (Matt 24:22).

My big complaint against a futurist view of this is that the reason for the Matt 24/Luke 21 events was the judgment of the people of Israel for failing to turn away from their sins and to be restored to God, except a small minority (the elect) who were preserved. After that, the requirement has been to be reconciled through Jesus Christ and in that manner become joined to the Jerusalem above (Gal 4:26). This detail is only the mere surface of the testimony of scripture. You can even start in Deut 32 to see what the state of the people would be.

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

To the trenches one and to the trenches all .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Okay. I think you get Rev 20:8-9 right. However, Luke 21 is distinctly different since Jerusalem was devastated but the Christians in Rev 20:8-9 were protected from any harm since these enemies were destroyed without making their attack.

Indeed there is a difference . i seen you caught that . Good .
IF we also take note
the GOG and MAGOG so many think is coming against natural jerusalem , IT AINT .
Notice its after the thousand years ,
ITS THE CAMP OF THE SAINTS . and That army NEVER TOUCHES that city .
As you wrote . Many look to the earthen
but should be seeking the heavenly MOUNT ZION , THE JERSUSALEM OF GOD
WHEREIN the TEMPLE IS GOD AND THE LAMB and the wee tiny stones are the sheep who believed IN HIM .
Many are running to todays JERSUALEM and following men
that are leading them to the peace OF ANTI CHRIST under the guise of interfaith .
Not looking good at all right now within much of christendom my friend . NOT at all .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

IF one was honest
they would have said LETS FIND COMMON GROUND with satan and anti christ .
CAUSE THAT IS what this common ground interfaith junk is all about .
I am very worried , highly troubled , weep and am weeping for this people .
WHO have been led astray by a false love that cliamed it was of GOD
but was of the world and its papa is the DEVIL HIMSELF . STOP , this instant , IN TRUSTING IN MEN
both sides are fleecing them all .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

Luke 21:20​

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”

The army here are NOT Romans, but Gog and Magog, the anti-christians kingdoms of this world! Jerusalem is NOT the literal city in the middle eat, but the beloved city of Zion, God's elect from every corner of the earth!

Revelation 20:8,9​

“And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

I'm marking this to come back later for discussion.

Notice it says THE DESTRUCTION OF JERUSALEM is NIGH .
but when we read later in revelation
After the thousand years we hear of the GOG and magog
coming against the JERUSALEM OF GOD , WHICH NEVER GETS TOUCHED . GOD destroyes that entire army .
THE ROMAN army crushed jerusalem FLAT . the gog and magog , YEAH it never even fires a shot
GOD mows them all down . heavenly jersualem the true JERSUALEM OF GOD .
But reader do beware , because in this life , WE GONNA be persecuted and many even killed
for being loyal to CHRIST and not to anti christ . Oh its exactly where this intefaith finding common
ground is leading them all . RIGHT to THE LIE to merge as one and come against
the true saints . AND MANY saints will bleed my friend . Just as they have throughout all generations .

 

[Tothalordbeallglory]

be faithful unto to death and ye shall receive a crown of life . Tribulations are increasing and have been
AND the western socities WILL FACE IT TOO .
It peaks IN THIS HOUR . fear not man , fear not what he can do , fear not to lose all even your own life .