What's Wrong with Calvinism?

[Presby02]

Newsflash: Unborn beings/unbelievers are not in Christ.


2 Corinthians 5:17 (LEB) — 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things have passed away; behold, new things have come.

How can one unborn be a new creation or born again

Romans 6:3–4 (LEB) — 3 Or do you not know that as many as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with him through baptism into death, in order that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so also we may live a new way of life.

being in Christ is a new way of life

Philippians 3:9 (LEB) — 9 and may be found in him, not having my righteousness which is from the law, but which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God on the basis of faith,

One in Christ has righteousness and faith

certainly not describing the unborn

Your failure to understand that the passage is addressing those in Christ and what God would do with such leads you reject much scripture.

"Even as He chose US IN HIM from the foundation of the world". There is some news for you. Your failure to properly address the passage is telling. Especially when you attempt to place words in the text that are not there. You could say you reject what it says as you accuse others of doing. They have a word for that.

 

[Presby02]

You fail to see the passage is addressing those who are in Christ

The verse states God chose that they would be holy and blameless before him in love and predestined us to adoption

They (we) and the US would be those in Christ

That is the choice of God.

You just cannot ignore multiple verses that show faith precedes regeneration and life

Really? Ephesians 1:4 addressing those already in Christ? So when does the text say they were chosen and by whom?? You know, the text we are actually discussing? The one you quickly abandoned.

 

[TomL]

Really? Ephesians 1:4 addressing those already in Christ? So when does the text say they were chosen and by whom?? You know, the text we are actually discussing? The one you quickly abandoned.

Nonsense, I have abandoned nothing. You cannot handle scripture by reading your assumptions into a select verse and ignoring multiple passages which state when man is forgiven, born again, saved, etc.

In this I have extolled many verses.

However

Those spoken of in Eph 1:4 were chosen in Christ that they should be holy and blameless.

Ephesians 1:1–14 (LEB) — 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, to the saints who are in Ephesus and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption through Jesus Christ to himself according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 to the praise of the glory of his grace that he bestowed on us in the beloved, 7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace, 8 that he caused to abound to us in all wisdom and insight, 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure that he purposed in him, 10 for the administration of the fullness of times, to bring together all things in Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth, in him 11 in whom also we were chosen, having been predestined according to the purpose of the One who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 that we who hoped beforehand in Christ should be for the praise of his glory, 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

Every blessing is a result of being in Christ

Before the foundation of the world, this is what God determined concerning those who would be in Christ.

 

[TomL]

"Even as He chose US IN HIM from the foundation of the world". There is some news for you. Your failure to properly address the passage is telling. Especially when you attempt to place words in the text that are not there. You could say you reject what it says as you accuse others of doing. They have a word for that.

Nonsense as this is addressed right here.

T

Post in thread 'What's Wrong with Calvinism?'

Today at 2:44 AM

Really? Ephesians 1:4 addressing those already in Christ? So when does the text say they were chosen and by whom?? You know, the text we are actually discussing? The one you quickly abandoned.

Nonsense, I have abandoned nothing. You cannot handle scripture by reading your assumptions into a select verse and ignoring multiple passages which state when man is forgiven, born again, saved, etc.

In this I have extolled many verses.

However

Those spoken of in Eph 1:4 were chosen in Christ that they should be holy and blameless.

Ephesians...

• TomL

BTW you cut the verse short

God chose that the in Christ would be holy and blameless before him in love. Further, they (the in Christ) would be predestined to adoption.

 

[Presby02]

Nonsense as this is addressed right here.

T

Post in thread 'What's Wrong with Calvinism?'

Today at 2:44 AM

Really? Ephesians 1:4 addressing those already in Christ? So when does the text say they were chosen and by whom?? You know, the text we are actually discussing? The one you quickly abandoned.

Nonsense, I have abandoned nothing. You cannot handle scripture by reading your assumptions into a select verse and ignoring multiple passages which state when man is forgiven, born again, saved, etc.

In this I have extolled many verses.

However

Those spoken of in Eph 1:4 were chosen in Christ that they should be holy and blameless.

Ephesians...

• TomL

BTW you cut the verse short

God chose that the in Christ would be holy and blameless before him in love. Further, they (the in Christ) would be predestined to adoption.

So I cut it short. Who made the choice, when and why, is quite clear. The result of that choice or the benefits of said choice are irrelevant. Your simply trying to create a rabbit trail.

 

[Presby02]

Nonsense, I have abandoned nothing. You cannot handle scripture by reading your assumptions into a select verse and ignoring multiple passages which state when man is forgiven, born again, saved, etc.

In this I have extolled many verses.

However

Those spoken of in Eph 1:4 were chosen in Christ that they should be holy and blameless.

Ephesians 1:1–14 (LEB) — 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, to the saints who are in Ephesus and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption through Jesus Christ to himself according to the good pleasure of his will, 6 to the praise of the glory of his grace that he bestowed on us in the beloved, 7 in whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace, 8 that he caused to abound to us in all wisdom and insight, 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure that he purposed in him, 10 for the administration of the fullness of times, to bring together all things in Christ, the things in the heavens and the things on the earth, in him 11 in whom also we were chosen, having been predestined according to the purpose of the One who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 that we who hoped beforehand in Christ should be for the praise of his glory, 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

Every blessing is a result of being in Christ

Before the foundation of the world, this is what God determined concerning those who would be in Christ.

Reading my assumptions into the text mister those "who woukd be in Christ". A phrase never uttered in scripture.

 

[TomL]

Reading my assumptions into the text mister those "who woukd be in Christ". A phrase never uttered in scripture.

Can you claim that men may be in Christ before the foundation of the world?