Whats the purpose of Gods Judgment ?

civic

civic

Well-known member
If calvinism is true there would be no judgment before God since the Lord predestined the elect to be saved and the rest to be condemned. Both the saved and lost have no choice to be saved or condemned. Man is only doing what God created them to do and to be a lost or saved sinner by His design. The clay was molded and shaped exactly as they were designed according to the calvinists doctrines of election, predestination and tulip.
 
the non elect have an excuse since they were not chosen to be saved and blocked from salvation by God. God made them for destruction and are only doing what God had designed them to do. They cannot do otherwise, choose otherwise but acting out how God has created them.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
To make a final disposition of Satan's rebellion - which includes those who are his followers - both human and otherwise.
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yes I agree but in calvinism the unsaved never had any choice or ability to be saved since they were never chosen/predestined by God to be saved. So why if calvinism is true would God be just in condemning them for the very way He designed and created them to be ?
 
civic said:
If calvinism is true there would be no judgment before God since the Lord predestined the elect to be saved and the rest to be condemned. Both the saved and lost have no choice to be saved or condemned. Man is only doing what God created them to do and to be a lost or saved sinner by His design. The clay was molded and shaped exactly as they were designed according to the calvinists doctrines of election, predestination and tulip.
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Yeah good question raised. If Calvinism were true what would judgement be for and how could it even be just to have such?
What IS judgement for? Punishment's for actions and decisions that God didn't want. If he didn't want them then why did he make them to happen by ordaining them for that's what Calvinists teach.....anything that is or transpires God wanted it that way.
 
Rockson said:
Yeah good question raised. If Calvinism were true what would judgement be for and how could it even be just to have such?
What IS judgement for? Punishment's for actions and decisions that God didn't want. If he didn't want them then why did he make them to happen by ordaining them for that's what Calvinists teach.....anything that is or transpires God wanted it that way.
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Amen and any reasonable person with a God given conscience can see that is true. Anyone with a moral sense of right and wrong can see the problem.
 
civic said:
If calvinism is true there would be no judgment before God since the Lord predestined the elect to be saved and the rest to be condemned. Both the saved and lost have no choice to be saved or condemned. Man is only doing what God created them to do and to be a lost or saved sinner by His design. The clay was molded and shaped exactly as they were designed according to the calvinists doctrines of election, predestination and tulip.
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It seems to me that if Calvinism is correct, the Bible would have a celebration for the conclusion of God’s preordained plan to save the few and condemn the majority.

There is judgement portrayed because we alone are the determinants of our eternal outcome.

Doug
 
TibiasDad said:
It seems to me that if Calvinism is correct, the Bible would have a celebration for the conclusion of God’s preordained plan to save the few and condemn the majority.

There is judgement portrayed because we alone are the determinants of our eternal outcome.

Doug
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I could say tge same Doug. Why does your god proclaim his love for the whole world, his desire to save the whole world, yet He does not. He could if He so desired no?
 
Presby02 said:
I could say tge same Doug. Why does your god proclaim his love for the whole world, his desire to save the whole world, yet He does not. He could if He so desired no?
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simple God gives man free will and doesn't force man to love Him.

next
 
Presby02 said:
I could say tge same Doug. Why does your god proclaim his love for the whole world, his desire to save the whole world, yet He does not. He could if He so desired no?
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All sin is atoned for through Christ’s death; whether we believe it or not is another matter. God has done all that he was supposed to do; salvation is provided to all who believe. If everyone would believe, everyone would be saved!

Relationships are a two way street; both parties must bring their own investments to the table. All God requires of us is our trust in his promise to do what he says he will do! He has done and will do what he has promised!

This is the protocol God has established in scripture: whoever believes will not perish, but will receive eternal life! God is willing for all men to come to repentance!


Doug
 
TibiasDad said:
All sin is atoned for through Christ’s death; whether we believe it or not is another matter. God has done all that he was supposed to do; salvation is provided to all who believe. If everyone would believe, everyone would be saved!

Relationships are a two way street; both parties must bring their own investments to the table. All God requires of us is our trust in his promise to do what he says he will do! He has done and will do what he has promised!

This is the protocol God has established in scripture: whoever believes will not perish, but will receive eternal life! God is willing for all men to come to repentance!


Doug
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It doesn't seem like very many calviniss online believe God at His core Being is relational. And as you pointed out relationships are a two way street and expecially when we are talkng about a loving relationship based upon God is love. Its like they carry that static idea about God into their ideas about salvation rather than a dynamic view of God.
 
civic said:
It doesn't seem like very many calviniss online believe God at His core Being is relational. And as you pointed out relationships are a two way street and expecially when we are talkng about a loving relationship based upon God is love. Its like they carry that static idea about God into their ideas about salvation rather than a dynamic view of God.
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You know well what the Calvinist position is, having been one yourself! What they term as God being Sovereign, is really God being dictatorial and predetermining every minute detail of creation, as if he couldn’t do it any other way.

It is not possible to have a real relationship between two willful parties in their system of thought.


Doug
 
TibiasDad said:
You know well what the Calvinist position is, having been one yourself! What they term as God being Sovereign, is really God being dictatorial and predetermining every minute detail of creation, as if he couldn’t do it any other way.

It is not possible to have a real relationship between two willful parties in their system of thought.


Doug
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You are correct. I don't think they believe God is willful or willing. They deny all the passages teaching God is both willing and unwilling with certain things in scripture.
 
TibiasDad said:
All sin is atoned for through Christ’s death; whether we believe it or not is another matter. God has done all that he was supposed to do; salvation is provided to all who believe. If everyone would believe, everyone would be saved!

Relationships are a two way street; both parties must bring their own investments to the table. All God requires of us is our trust in his promise to do what he says he will do! He has done and will do what he has promised!

This is the protocol God has established in scripture: whoever believes will not perish, but will receive eternal life! God is willing for all men to come to repentance!


Doug
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I agree. All sin is atoned for those it's intended for.

It's this simple Doug. Would you put conditions on saving your child from a burning building? Would implore them to tell you they love or you will not save them?
 
Presby02 said:
I agree. All sin is atoned for those it's intended for.

It's this simple Doug. Would you put conditions on saving your child from a burning building? Would implore them to tell you they love or you will not save them?
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God’s ways are not my ways! We are responsible and volitional beings. Why would God not let his child use the capacities that he gave them. We were created in his image, and that included the right to choose what we want.


Doug
 
TibiasDad said:
God’s ways are not my ways! We are responsible and volitional beings. Why would God not let his child use the capacities that he gave them. We were created in his image, and that included the right to choose what we want.


Doug
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Amen !
 

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