sethproton
Active member
Saved from the water.
What kind of Faith did Noah have?
- Thread starter Titus
- Start date
civic
Well-known member
And he is the line in which the Messiah would come. The Savior of the world.
Titus
Member
Peter said Noah was saved by or through water.
So to say Noah was saved from the water not by water contradicts Peter.
God used water to destroy the world.
God used a boat and water to lift Noah up out of the world that was destroyed.
1Peter 3:20-21,
- Which sometimes were disobedient when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared wherein few that is eight souls were saved by water
- The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh but the answer of a good conscience toward God by the ressurection of Jesus Christ
Eight souls saved through water not from water.
Ephesians 2:8-9,
- by Grace we have been saved through faith.... correct
- by Grace we have been saved from faith... incorrect
Friend the Greek word dia is used in both verses, 1Peter 3:20 and Ephesians 2:8.
dia translated in English is through or by.
This word means because of.
1Peter 3:20,
...eight souls were saved dia(because of) water
Ephesians 2:8,
- by Grace you have been saved dia(because of) faith
God used the ark and water to save Noah.
God used that same water to destroy the world.
sethproton
Active member
My old Testament has a story about all the people being destroyed by water, except Noah and his family who escaped from the water in a boat.
When undertstanding both Testaments I compare what it has to say in both. In Genesis it is clear that the water killed but the boat saved.
The New Testament is using this story to make a point about faith, but it doesn't change the story facts, I see that in the New Testament water symbolizes death in this specific story. Baptism copies death and resurrection by going under water (death) and coming back up. new life.
Titus
Member
You don't accept Peter's teaching.
1Peter 3:20-21,
- wherein eight souls were saved because of water.
If water did not save Noah then baptism does not save today.
You familiar with Typology?
Peter uses typology in his book
Typology:
Type:
Anti-type":
Typology: typology in Christian theology and biblical exegesis is a doctrine concerning the relationships between the OLD TESTAMENT to the NEW TESTAMENT.
Events ,persons or statements in the old testament are seen as types pre-figuring or superseded by anti-types.
For example Jonah may be seen as the type of Christ in that he emerged from the fish's belly and thus appeared to rise from the dead.
In the fullest version of typology the whole purpose of the old testament is viewed as merely the provision of types for Christ, the anti-type or fulfillment in the new testament of those stories of the old testament like Johah.
Types are representation.
1Peter 3:20-21,
- who formerly were disobedient when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah while the ark was being prepared in which a few that is eight souls were saved because of water,
- There is also an anti-type which now saves us baptism....
1Peter 3:20-21
Verse 20 is old testament, water is the type
Verse 21 is new testament water baptism is the anti-type
Titus
Member
Quote: "I see that in the new testament water symbolizes death in this specific story"
No, water baptism brings about salvation, it saves according to Peter,
-wherein eight souls were saved because of water
- baptism now saves us
If water symbolizes death in 1Peter 3:20-21 then,
- eight souls were destroyed by water
- baptism doth also now destroy us
sethproton
Active member
Are you re-reading the passge for what it actually says, or leaning on doctrine you learned from someone?
My 1 Peter 3:20 says they were brought safely through the water. The idea being that a flood kills everyone, but the boat was their salvation from it.
sethproton
Active member
As far as accepting Peter's teaching. I do. It is your interpretation I am arguing against.
My 1 Peter 3:20 says they were brought safely through the water in a boat. The idea being that a flood kills everyone, but the boat is their salvation from it.
In other passages, water means other things like life, or an army and probably much more, but here water is death before new life. Old man dies, new man comes alive (up out of the water) In the Old Testament story, where is the life? In the flood or in the ark? In the Old Testament story, where is the life? In the flood or in the ark?
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sethproton
Active member
duplicate
Titus
Member
I quoted Peter word for word. I dont have my interpretation.
I'm leaning on Peter's doctrine in 1Peter 3:20-21.
Look apparently you wont accept what Peter says that baptism now saves us.
It's very simple about Noah.
Noah was saved by a boat because God sent water.
Think about this.
The boat alone did not save Noah.
The boat needed water to lift Noah out of the destruction of the world.
Say God destroyed the world with hail fire like Sodom.
So Noah gets in the ark and God sends the hail-fire to burn up the wicked.
Would the ark that is made of wood saved Noah?
You know the answer.
Noah would have been IN the world.
But the Ark required the water to lift Noah up out of the world, out of the destruction of the world.
You would have no problem accepting what Peter said if you didn't refuse baptism now saves us.
Titus
Member
According to you, The water represents death in 1Peter 3:20-21,
1Peter 3:20-21,
- there is an anti-type which now SAVES US water baptism
sethproton
Active member
Not sure what you are referencing when you say during the flood, God sent fire to destroy the world. Where does the Old Testmant have that ?
Please quote the Old Testament verses that teach there was a fire during the flood. Or explain what I am getting wrong about your text intention. Thanks
Titus
Member
No fire I used fire to teach you the Ark could not lift Noah out of the destruction of the world without water.
The ark alone did not save Noah
sethproton
Active member
No fire? Ok. I misread your post.
But your post is still confusing. You are talking about water being used to get out of the destruction, but the water was the destruction.
How do you identify and separate the destruction from the water?
Titus
Member
Easy, the world was destroyed by God. God lifted up Noah out if the destruction how?
Answer with water and a boat. They both were required to lift Noah out of the world.
In the Old as well as the New the ark represents Jesus.
You must be IN, INTO Christ.
The water represents new testament baptism. You get into Christ in water baptism.
The ark represents Jesus. We must get into Jesus to be saved.
Galatians 3:26-27,
- for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus
- for(Greek word gar, it means for the reason being)
- for the reason being) as many of you have been baptized INTO Christ have put on Christ.
You are not IN Christ until you are baptized into Christ.
sethproton
Active member
thanks. we are not communicating so I will let this go. God bless you.
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Titus
Member
My teaching is not difficult to understand.
Ark represents Jesus.
Water from the flood represents new testament baptism.
Noah had to be IN the ark to be saved likewise we must be IN Jesus to be saved.
Noah need water and the Ark to be saved from the destruction of the world.
Likewise folks today need water baptism to get IN Christ where all the spiritual blessings are.
Ephesians 1:3,
- blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places IN CHRIST
All spiritual blessings are IN Christ.
Paul teaches we get IN Christ by water baptism,
Galatians 3:26-27,
- for ye are all children of God by faith in Christ,
- for the reason being as many of you have been baptized INTO Christ have put on Christ
Noah was saved IN the ark.
Water baptism today puts us IN Christ.
Therefore Noah needed to be IN the Ark and water to be saved.
Today we need water baptism to get IN Jesus.
Ark(Jesus) and water saved Noah.
Water baptism and Jesus save us.
1Peter 3:20-21,
- the like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...
If the type was the ark and not the water.
Then 1Peter 3:20-21 would read,
- which sometime were disobedient when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah while the ark was a preparing wherein few that is eight souls were saved because of water
- the like figure whereunto even the ark doth also now save us...
You understand the water must be the type so that water baptism will be the anti-type?
If only the ark saved Noah then,
The type would be the ark,
Then the anti-type would be the ark.
Better start building a boat if you want to be saved,
sethproton
Active member
Yes, I thought I understood your words. I disagree with some of your interpretaton. But God bles you in your studies.
Titus
Member
Do you disagree that Peter preached faith, repentance and baptism for the forgiveness of sins?
Acts 2:38,
- then Peter said unto them, repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit
Peter did not preach believe alone for the forgiveness of sins.
sethproton
Active member
Yes. Acts 2:38 says that. I accept and believe it. But your interpretation is where my issue is. SInce you seem interested in simply repeating your understanding, but no real interest in looking at ideas handed you, it does not progress. So again, your interpretation is where my issue is,1 Peter 3:21 Baptism is the appeal for a good conscience.
And yes, we have the words "Baptism does now save you." But it is clarified by the next words that it washes the flesh which does not bring salvation.
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