brightfame52
Active Member
Did He die for them who never believe in Him ?
What is the Gospel
- Thread starter civic
- Start date
Darby
Active Member
John 3:16
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
Luke 19:10
For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”A person can choose to believe or not, but Jesus still hung on the cross for them. He died for the ungodly.
civic
Active Member
Yep all the world means just what it says all the world- no exceptions, no exclusions. EVERYONE, ALL, EVERY PERSON- man, woman, child. Jew and Gentile alike.
next fallacy.......
brightfame52
Active Member
Okay then you dont believe Christs death and resurrection in and of itself saved anyone, but their act of believing does that. Thats giving man the credit in salvation and not the work of Christ, mans believing made the difference between saved and lost.
brightfame52
Active Member
Thats unscriptural
Darby
Active Member
No, I believe Christs death and resurrection is what saves us. Hearing the Gospel and believing it.
The New Testament consistently teaches that salvation comes exclusively through Jesus Christ and that faith is inseparable from hearing His Word. This post provides a comprehensive guide to passages where Jesus and the apostles link hearing, believing, and eternal life.
Do you think faith in Jesus is a work also?
John 3:16–18 – “Whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life… whoever does not believe is condemned already.”
John 8:24 – “Unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”
John 12:48 – “The one who rejects me and does not receive (believe) my words has a judge; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day.”
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
If a man asked you , but sir what must i Do to be saved . What would your response be to such a one .
Now as for paul , silas , peter and the others as well as the sheep today
We gonna answer with , BELIEVE YE IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
For the sheep now know and that by grace , WE beleive IN the Savior who did save .
IN His death and ressurection , that it was by HE that we are saved .
By the grace of GOD , kept by FAITH in HE whom GOD did send .
Its pretty simple really .
civic
Active Member
Well of course no one is saved because Jesus died - that only happens when a person hears the gospel, believes the gospel, receives the gospel. N.T. Salvation 101. Jesus death/resurrection provides salvation for all the world- it guarantees it when one believes/receives the gospel and confesses Jesus is Lord. See Romans 10:9-13.
hope this helps !!!
brightfame52
Active Member
Okay, so therefore everyone He was delivered up for their and rose again for their Justification they are saved correct ? Here is the scripture Rom 4:25
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
brightfame52
Active Member
The same as the Apostles Believe on the Lord Jesus and thou shalt be saved.
brightfame52
Active Member
Then you as well believe in the actions of the person to save them, not just Christs work alone on their behalf. See hearing believing, and receiving are all actions done by the sinner
brightfame52
Active Member
Are you going to explain to the inquirer who Jesus Christ is ? Are you going to explain from scripture what Jesus Christ did ? Who He did it for, and was it successful, what did it accomplish ? Or you just tell them, Believe on Jesus Christ and let it go after that with no further Gospel Truths or details
Darby
Active Member
What does Romans 4:25 mean?
Paul has described the amazing faith of Abraham, who believed God would keep His promises as the years made it seem more and more unlikely in human terms. Abraham always remained fully convinced God was able to keep His promise.The same can happen for us, Paul has written. Our faith in God can be credited to us as righteousness. God will justify us and welcome us into His family for believing Him, as well. What, though, does God ask us to believe?
In the previous verse, Paul showed that God welcomes those who believe in Him as the one who raised Jesus from the dead. Now Paul continues that Jesus was "delivered up" or handed over by God as the sacrifice to pay for our trespasses or sins. In other words, Jesus' suffered and died on the cross in our place, to receive the penalty of God's wrathful judgment on our sin.
After that, God raised Jesus from the dead for our justification. The fact that Jesus was raised after He died showed that God's justice had been satisfied. Jesus had paid the full price for our sin and had been released from death. His resurrection also makes it possible for Christ's righteousness to be credited to our account, as well. It is only through Christ that we can be justified, made right with God.
It is our faith in the God who provided for our forgiveness and justification through Christ that allows us to be "counted as righteous" before God, just as the faith of Abraham was the path through which God called Him righteous, as well.
What does Romans 4:25 mean? | BibleRef.com
He who was delivered over because of our wrongdoings, and was raised because of our justification. - What is the meaning of Romans 4:25?
www.bibleref.com
brightfame52
Active Member
We can discuss that later. You made a statement here
@Darby
So here is a scripture that speaks of His death and resurrection for sinners Rom 4:25 are all of them saved by His death and resurrection as you stated ? Yes or no
civic
Active Member
salvation has always been by faith in both testaments.
God doesn't save anyone who refuses to believe Him.
next.............
brightfame52
Active Member
Its never been by the actions of men, not in either testament. Its always been by Grace. Remember Tulip Truths explain the Gospel of Grace
civic
Active Member
its always been by faith try reading Hebrews chapter 11 sometime then get back to me.
Darby
Active Member
I believe that salvation is conditional. The condition is we must believe the truth and accept Christ as our Savior.
Some go off the rails by teaching that God does the electing or choosing and that it is totally unconditional on man’s part.
But the Bible teaches that election or choosing is conditional. Man must choose God’s way of salvation by believing the truth and trusting Christ as Savior.
According to the Holy Scriptures, the Gospel of the Christ "of the Bible" is "Repent:" for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Jesus confirmed His Same Gospel before HE ascended.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and "remission of sins" should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
This was the same Gospel offered to Abraham. "Deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow Christ". Abraham knew who would provide for the remission of his sins. I posted his own words showing this, but you don't believe.
The 12 Disciples didn't have the Faith of Shadrack, Meshack, David, Daniel, Abraham. They all scattered, Judas betrayed Him, Peter denied Him. Even after 3 years walking and listening to Him they still didn't believe Him until after HE was raised from the dead.
Matt. 26: 40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they "that have not seen", and yet have believed.
God didn't hide from them the ability to "deny themselves, pick up their cross and follow Him" in belief. But HE does hide from them the mystery of His will, until they "Yield themselves" unto Him. Clearly the Disciples had not yet yielded themselves to God.
But Zacharias believed the Word of God without seeing Him, and Simeon believed the Word of God without seeing Him, Abraham believed the Word of God without seeing Him.
John 7: 37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which "they that believe on him should receive": for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
But Jesus was Glorified in Zacharias, Simeon and Anna even before He was born. They Glorified Him before HE was murdered and was raised from the dead. But Peter denied Him, Judas betrayed Him. It's right there in your own Bible, it's just that your religion will not allow you to believe. Jesus even tells you about a future where "Many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, will refuse to Glorify Him. It is the Life of Jesus that pleased God. Not His Murder.
For those who might be reading along. What was the significance of Israel creating an image of God after the likeness of the sacrifice?
Seek to know God and His Righteousness Civic, not just seeking justification for an adopted religion. That is the "course of this world".
Actually, here is what Paul said.
Rom. 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
Secret from who? Certainly from Paul when he was persecuting the church of God who gathered on Pentecost.
Certainly from the Disciples who had not "Yielded themselves" to God, but abandoned Jesus in His trial of Faith.
Certainly from Joseph and Mary, Luke 2: 33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him.
But not from Simeon, "For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel."
Certainly Not Abraham.
Gen. 22: 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
John 8: 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. 57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. 59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.
Will you cast stones at Him as well, for exposing a fallacy, or just adopt a Jesus whose day Abraham, Zacharias and Simeon didn't see.
26 But "now" is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
What Spirit made manifest this same Christ to Simeon? Of course you are not allowed to answer.
Yes, Jesus trumps me. He trumps you as well. All I'm advocating is to "be diligent that we may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless", But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder "of them" "that diligently seek him".
We see a body of believers after the Resurrection of Jesus, diligently seeking Him, just as Zacharias, Simeon and Anna had strived to do.
Because they didn't believe Him until after HE Rose from the dead. But afterwards, after they were ashamed, and repented, they did believe, and they did "Yield themselves" to God in obedience, as Jesus instructed. And THEN God gave them His Holy Spirit that Peter teaches God Gives to all that obey Him. The same Spirit Zacharias and Simeon and Anna were given, for the same reason. In the Kingdom of God there is only ONE Spirit, and ONE faith.
Zacharias, Simeon, Abraham, Caleb, these few, this Remnant received this One Spirit because of their belief/Faith. Nothing Jesus, Paul, or any Scriptures say, make these Truths untrue.
brightfame52
Active Member
Its never been by the actions of men, not in either testament. Its always been by Grace. Remember Tulip Truths explain the Gospel of Grace
