What is the Gospel
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There is no doubt what your adopted religious teaches have taught you this, and you believe them. And truly, the mainstream preachers of Jesus time didn't believe Moses and the Prophets, or the Word of God either. But when a person reads the Holy Scriptures for themselves, in Faith (belief in God), we find a different Biblical reality.
Gen. 22: 7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb "for a burnt offering": so they went both of them together.
Clearly Abraham say His Day.
And the Lord's Feast of Passover was for the very purpose of foreshadowing for the Faithful, what their Savior would do for them, and the Faithful understood.
Luke 2: 25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. 26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. 27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, 28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. 33 And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him. 34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; 35 (Yea, "a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also",) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
Clearly Simeon and Zacharias believed Moses and the Prophets, and obeyed God and as Peter teaches, they received the Holy Spirit who God gives to Everyone who obeys Him.
IS. 53: 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
1 Peter 1: 10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the "Spirit of Christ which was in them" did signify, when it testified beforehand "the sufferings of Christ", and "the glory that should follow". 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
It's wasn't that they didn't know what was coming, they just didn't know what time it would come.
So yes, the promoters of the mainstream religions of the world in Jesus Time, didn't know the Gospel of Christ, and neither did they possess the Holy Spirit of God. But as David pointed out, Christ's Gospel was believed on by men long before Jesus was murdered, and raised from the dead. The Faithful have always known, and God has always gifted His Spirit for those who follow him fully as it is written:, "But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land"
civic
Active Member
Presuppositions
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
The key . they beleived a savoir was coming who would save Israel . A king of the lineage of david .
Jesus would indeed reveal things and later the SPIRIT would reveal all truth unto those who do beleive .
Look this is HE to whom moses spoke about . OF course JESUS would reveal more in His day
and later Sent the comforter unto all who do believe guiding them into all truth .
Into all that HE had said .
The LORD is our hope and our salvation . Let us never once heed men
that try and downplay the dire importance of having had to beleive on Him .
Cause as you know , we got many that are now trying to do that as they give a pass to false relig oins
and behave as t hough they somehow too are fine and okay . now that IS ANTI GOSPEL
thus its Anti GOD and ANTI CHRIST .
JESUS said , as later did the apostels a word that many no longer desire is necessary .
HE SAID YE MUST BELEIVE . But many no longer desire to beleive ONE MUST BELEIVE .
And that my friend will be their second death .
The mainstream preachers of Zacharias and Simeon's time didn't believe them or the Prophets either.
Yes, I "presuppose" that Abraham, Isaiah, Zacharias, Simeon and David knew the Gospel of Christ through the Holy Spirit that was in them, "when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow", is true. While the religious philosophy of this world that you have adopted and are now promoting to others, which contradicts the Spirit of Christ, is not true.
I would invite you to be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and turn away from the course of this world, "according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience". And remember, For unto us was the gospel preached, "as well as unto them": but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
"Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall "after the same example of unbelief".
civic
Active Member
How ironic you quoted a verse which proves The Sons pre existence before He became a man.
Gotta love it !!!
Another proof text for the Deity of Christ.
Amen
I have always believed the Spirit of Christ that became flesh and blood was eternal. I gotta give it to you preacher. You are truly the master at misdirection and changing the subject. You have been taught well.
charismaticlady
Active Member
See below.
What do you two believe regarding the old sin nature. How does the gospel affect that sin? What is the good news regarding sin?
What is your definition of grace regarding sin?
I'm sorry that I wasn't able to read all the posts. I'm coming in late.
civic
Active Member
Back to the topic. If the Apostles who wrote the NT did not understand Jesus death and its relationship to the gospel then I guarantee no one else before them understood it either. Prophecy does not equal understanding.
Who Inspired the Apostles to write the Testimony of Christ? Was it not the Same Holy Spirit that Inspired the Prophets "who prophesied of the grace that should come"? Who searched "what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when "it testified beforehand" the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
What Apostle told Zacharias;
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
What Apostle taught Simeon:
28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, 29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: 30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, 31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; 32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
34 And Simeon blessed them, and said unto Mary his mother, Behold, this child is set for the fall and rising again of many in Israel; and for a sign which shall be spoken against; 35 (Yea, a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also,) that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
Sadly, as is the way of the course of this world, you can not answer. Not because you "Can't", but because your mission here is to defend, preserve and promote to others, "your" adopted religious opinion. And according to you, Simeon and Zacharias, and Anna, don't exist as written. They couldn't exist, because YOU SAID "I guarantee no one else before them (Apostles) understood it (Gospel of Christ) either."
And yet, they knew Him, recognized Him and had His Faith, even when HE was only at 8 days old. So here I am again, like for the umpteenth time, having to choose between the preaching of the promoter of a mainstream religion which existed in the world God placed me in, and what God's Word actually says.
But I am free to choose God's Word because I am not held captive by the Yoke of your religion. I can be renewed in the spirit of my mind through seeking God, because I'm not here to preserve, defend and promote an adopted religion. I am free to accept the simple truths of God, like there were Faithful servants of God who understood what the Passover foreshadowed. And there were men who understood the sacrificial "works of the law" and it lead them to Christ before HE even came in the Flesh.
I invite you to throw off the shackles of your adopted religion, like Abraham and Peter did, and Yield yourself to God and your body as instruments of Righteousness unto God, and answer the question, "What Apostle taught Zacharias, Simeon and Anna the Gospel of Christ?
Where does understanding come from? The Apostles or the Holy Spirit that was in them?
DavidTree
Active Member
All OT Saints who believed the WORD of God were Born-Again by the Spirit of God.
The Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a Special Baptism that could only occur after Christ Ascended back to the FATHER.
DavidTree
Active Member
civic
Active Member
Did they know God is Triune too ?
brightfame52
Active Member
Yeah, the baptism of the Holy Spirit isnt regeneration
civic
Active Member
No they did not understand the gospel it was a mystery revealed in the NT.
a mystery or secret doctrine
Original Word: μυστήριον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Definition: a mystery or secret doctrine
Usage: a mystery, secret, of which initiation is necessary; in the NT: the counsels of God, once hidden but now revealed in the Gospel or some fact thereof; the Christian revelation generally; particular truths or details of the Christian revelation.
3466 mystḗrion (the root of the English term, "mystery") – mystery. In the Bible, a "mystery" (3466/mystḗrion) is not something unknowable. Rather, it is what can only be known through revelation, i.e. because God reveals it.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mysteryof godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
Colossians 1:15-23
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. 22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.
Now I rejoice in what I am suffering for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. 25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people. 27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.28 He is the one we proclaim, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ. 29 To this end I strenuously contend with all the energy Christ so powerfully works in me.
Colossians 2:1-5
I want you to know how hard I am contending for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally. 2 My goal is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. 4 I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments. 5 For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how disciplined you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.
Colossians 2:9-10
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, 10 and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.
Ephesians 3:1-12
For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles—2 Surely you have heard about the administration of God’s grace that was given to me for you, 3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12 In him and through faith in him we may approach God with freedom and confidence..14 For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16 I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18 may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19 and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.20 Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21 to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.
A secret hidden doctrine in the O.T. revealed by His Spirit in the N.T. The great Mystery revealed in the N.T.- Christ
A “mystery” in the New Testament is something that had at one time been hidden but is now revealed to God’s people. Jesus spoke of “the mystery of the kingdom of God” (Mark 4:11, NAS) that He was at that point revealing to His disciples. The apostle Paul used the word mystery 21 times in his Epistles. In each case, the “mystery” involved a wonderful declaration of spiritual truth, revealed by God through divine inspiration. A mystery is that “which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets” (Ephesians 3:5).
The mystery of God’s will is that “which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ” (Ephesians 1:9–10; cf. 1 Corinthians 2:7; Revelation 10:7). The mystery of God is the consummation of God’s plan in bringing His kingdom in Christ to fulfillment. The kingdom had long been prophesied, but the how and the when and the by whom was not clear until the time of Christ. It is in Christ that God has been manifested to all of mankind. As Jesus said, “Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father” (John 14:9).
Paul said that he had been commissioned to preach “the word of God in its fullness—the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people” (Colossians 1:25–26). That is, it is through the apostles that we have been given the capstone of Scripture; their writings, all of which point to Christ—represent the final disclosure of God’s Word to mankind.
civic
Active Member
and there is more proof below from Paul in 1 Corinthians 2:1-10 below: the message Paul preached and was killed for persecuted for thrown in jai; for, beaten for was the GOSPEL- that message Paul says was hidden, a mystery revealed in the N.T. through him and the Apostles.
And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3;I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power. 6We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
10these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3;I came to you in weakness with great fear and trembling. 4My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, 5so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power. 6We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9However, as it is written:
“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”
the things God has prepared for those who love him—
10these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.
brightfame52
Active Member
Not all of it was a Mystery. They believed in the coming seed of the women Gen 3:15 who would work out their salvation. The Mystery part was mostly that they belonged to the Body of Christ that included Gentiles Eph 3:3-6
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:
civic
Active Member
you make that claim after the fact looking back- but to them they did not know God would become Incarnate and die for the sins of the world- that was a mystery kept hidded until it was revealed in the N.T. and that the gospel would be for the whole world, everyone, Jews and Gentiles alike. This message was hidden from everyone until Jesus made it known to His Apostles. They did not understand it until after His death and Resurrection. Jesus had to open their minds to understand the gospel.
We know that the disciples did not understand the gospel as it was hidden from them until after Pentecost. Jesus even said that He hid it from them.
Luke 9:43-45
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his disciples, 44 “Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son of Man is going to be delivered into the hands of men.” 45 But they did not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.
Luke 18:34
But the disciples did not understand any of these things. The meaning was hidden from them, and they did not comprehend what He was saying
Jesus passed on the gospel to His Disciples. Its the same Gospel but Christ had not suffered, died, risen yet. The disciples didn't understand the Passion until after His Resurrection, they were in denial.
Jesus replied, “You do not realize now what I am doing, but later you will understand…. I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.” — John 13:7, 19
After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken. — John 2:22
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. — Matthew 16:21
Now Jesus was going up to Jerusalem. On the way, he took the Twelve aside and said to them, “We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!” — Matthew 20:17-19
After His Resurrection
He said to them, “How foolish you are, and how slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken! Did not the Messiah have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?” And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. — Luke 24:25-27
He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.” Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. — Luke 24:44-45
brightfame52
Active Member
Abraham believed the Gospel Gal 3:8-9
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Also believing the Gospel isnt a condition for salvation, its a message to them who are already saved. As long as one belongs to the election of grace and Christ died for their sins, they are saved, they will find out about it by the Gospel.
