What is Oneness Theology ?

[Truther]

Error, you believe the Lord Jesus, right and that he cannot Lie correct? let's hear it from the Lord Jesus Mouth that it's only ONE person at Genesis 1:26.

LISTEN and Learn. Matthew 19:3 "The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?" Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female," God is a HE at Genesis, yes God is a HE, according to the Lord Jesus, for our brother Mark confirms this in his Gospel that God is the He that the Lord Jesus spoke of. Mark 10:5 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept." Mark 10:6 "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female."

so the He who made Man Male and Female in the beginning is God. else the Gospels are not Lying, (God forbid). God is a HE. and the Lord Jesus said it is written,,,, WHERE? Genesis 1:27 right after 1:26. Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." B.A.M. BAM, BAM

so, how did God go from a US and OUR a plurality, to a HIS, and a He, a singularly in just one verse?

now, if the Lord Jesus sais God is a HE a single person, who are you to argue with the Lord Jesus, who cannot LIE.

well 101G KNOWS.... (smile)..... but do YOU?

so please explain, "How God went from a US and a OUR to a HIS, and a HE in one verse...... let the floor be open from discussion.

PICJAG, 101G.

There is 2(God and His human son).

That's it.

God is a Holy Spirit and His son is an overcoming human spirit.

God enters into His human spirit son, bodily.

The 2 are unified as God.

 

[Truther]

The literal Hebrew translation of the word 'Elohim' is Gods. Elohim is used of both the true God and also the many false gods. In Gen 1:26 it is used of the true God and in verses such as Exodus 20:3 and Deuteronomy 13:2 of false gods. Even one of the commandments say, "Thou shalt not have any other gods (Elohim) before Me." Point being, the Hebrew word for 'God' is a plural noun. Elohim has the Hebrew masculine plural ending. Whenever it is used of the true God, it is always translated in the singular. But, conversely, when used of the false gods, it is always translated into the plural. The fact that the Hebrew word is plural when speaking of the only one true God opens the door to the concept of plurality.

Normally, when Elohim is used of the one true God, the verb with it is singular. This goes contrary to normal Hebrew grammar because in Hebrew grammar the verb must agree with the noun in gender and number. Normally, one would expect that with Elohim, a plural noun, the plural verb would be used, which is true when it is used of false gods. Most of the time whenever the word Elohim is used of the true God, the verb used with it is in the singular number to prove that there is only one true God. But there are exceptions and these exceptions again open the door for the possibility of plurality in the Godhead.

For example, Genesis 20:13a reads:

Genesis 20:13 And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander ...

The Hebrew word that is translated "caused me to wander" is plural. Literally it reads, "And it came to pass, when They (in reference to God) caused me to wander..."

Another example is Genesis 35:7:

Genesis 35:7 And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him...

Here again, "appeared unto him" in Hebrew is a plural form which literally reads, "for there God appeared Themselves."

A third example being 2 Samuel 7:23:

2 Samuel 7:23 ... whom God went ...

Again, the Hebrew word for 'went' is plural, and literally reads, "...whom God They went..."

A fourth example is Psalms 58:11:

Psalms 58:11b "... verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth."

Again, the term "that judgeth" is a plural verb in Hebrew and literally it reads, "he is a God They judge."

Joshua 24:19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.

A jealous God - In the Hebrew, He is the holy Gods, holy Father, holy Son, holy Spirit. He will not endure a partner in his worship; you can not serve him and idols together. (Wesley)

"In the English translations, plural adjectives appear as nouns, but in the Hebrew text, these words are Hebrew adjectives. The adjective "holy" is a plural form which literally reads in the Hebrew "holy Gods""

Psalms 149:2 Let Israel rejoice in (his maker): let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.

"The adjective that is translated as "maker" is in Hebrew a plural so literally reads, "Let Israel rejoice in his Makers"

Ecclesiastes 12:1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth, while the evil days come not, nor the years draw nigh, when thou shalt say, I have no pleasure in them;

"Again, the word "Creator" in Hebrew is a plural adjective and literally reads, "Remember now thy Creators..."

Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

"(This verse) has two examples. In English the verse reads, "thy Maker, thine husband". But both the term "Maker" and "husband" are in the Hebrew text plurals and literally read, "For thy Makers, thy Husbands" in reference to God.

This too emphasizes the concept of a plurality (within God)"

**The majority of the information above comes from 'Ariel Ministries', Manuscript # 50 entitled "The Trinity" by Dr. Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum, Messianic Jewish Hebrew scholar, - see http://www.ariel.org/amds.htm to read more of his works

Who defined the "literal Hebrew" translation?

 

[101G]

@civic
Understand this definition. Clearly
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

Now, who is H433?
H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410

understand, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is of, of, of, H433, not "FROM" H433 but "OF" H433, meaning the same one Person in the ECHAD, or EQUAL SHARE. the same as the term "WTH" vs "TO" as in being EQUAL. With indicate the same one Person, to, indicate a different person.

101G might not be a theological expert, but he do the difference between "with", and "to", in being EQUAL in the Godhead.

may God bless

PICJAG, 101G

 

[101G]

There is 2(God and His human son).

same person,

God is a Holy Spirit and His son is an overcoming human spirit.

no, there is only the Holy Spirit who is JESUS in the ECHAD, equally Shared as Ordinal First, and Ordinal Last in "TIME", "PLACE", "ORDER", or "RANK"...... (smile), B.A.M. BAM, BAM ..... checkmate.

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[101G]

Think on these things and 101G will be back in a minute or two.... ect.

101G.

 

[Truther]

@civic
Understand this definition. Clearly
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

Now, who is H433?
H433 אֱלוֹהַּ 'elowahh (el-o'-ah) n-m.
אֱלֹהַּ 'eloahh (el-o'-ah) [shortened (rarely)]
1. one with supreme strength and ability.
2. the Supreme Being, God the Creator, Yahweh by name.
3. a supreme entity, a god-like creature (that is, one of God's supreme creations, or one of man's inventions).
[probably prolonged (emphat.) from H410]
KJV: God, god.
Root(s): H410

understand, H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') is of, of, of, H433, not "FROM" H433 but "OF" H433, meaning the same one Person in the ECHAD, or EQUAL SHARE. the same as the term "WTH" vs "TO" as in being EQUAL. With indicate the same one Person, to, indicate a different person.

101G might not be a theological expert, but he do the difference between "with", and "to", in being EQUAL in the Godhead.

may God bless

PICJAG, 101G

Who defines all of these Hebrew words for you?

 

[Truther]

same person,

no, there is only the Holy Spirit who is JESUS in the ECHAD, equally Shared as Ordinal First, and Ordinal Last in "TIME", "PLACE", "ORDER", or "RANK"...... (smile), B.A.M. BAM, BAM ..... checkmate.

PICJAG, 101G.

21 Jesus saith unto her, ....

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

C'mon, man.

 

[101G]

Who defines all of these Hebrew words for you?

101G use several dictionaries, for the term God here he used the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments.

101G.

 

[Truther]

101G use several dictionaries, for the term God here he used the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments.

101G.

So, that modern feller redefines your Bible for you?

Have you had coffee with him to pick his omniscient brain lately?

 

[101G]

21 Jesus saith unto her, ....

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

C'mon, man.

yes, and he is that Spirit in the ECHAD of First, and Last, listen, 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." was he not Jesus in the OT? let's check the record. 1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:" 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

WHERE WERE THE "SPIRIT?" ..... IN, IN, IN, THEM. THEM WHO? THE PROPHETS. it that not the Holy Spirit? let's check the record. the same apostle, 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." is not the Holy Spirit God, (John 4:24a).... Lol, lol, lol, B.A.M. BAM, BAM.

Oh this is too easy.

101G.

 

[101G]

So, that modern feller redefines your Bible for you?

Have you had coffee with him to pick his omniscient brain lately?

did you not say, "24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." is not the Lord Jesus the TRUTH? or do you have two TRUTHS? B.A.M. BAM, BAM.

the TRUTH it's so close in his face until he cannot even see it. Oh dear.

PICJAG, 101G.

 

[101G]

@Truther, let 101G take you by the Hand

Step #1. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" is not the Lord Jesus in Flesh the Helper, (see Luke 2:25)

Step #2. John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
Even the Spirit of truth? STOP THE PRESS. now think who is the TRUTH? ..... think, it's not that hard to do.

Step #3. John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you."
I, I, I, I, will not leave you comfortless. he just told you he is the COMFORTER, the Spirit of TRUTH, and he is the TRUTH. a blind man can see this.

PICJAG, 101G

 

[Wrangler]

Oneness doctrine is a rejection of the Trinity

Any basis to reject invalid doctrine such as the trinity is understandable.

I've learned that when something is wrong, there are often more than one way of identifying why it is wrong. Having that said, it does not necessarily mean the Oneness doctrine is correct either. Still, I must say your trinitarian-centric world view, discussing another world view as it relates to your concentricity.

 

[Wrangler]

Although the words Oneness and Unitarianwould seem to mean the same thing, there is a significant difference theologically. Those who hold to Oneness doctrine believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all God.

With all due respect, you are a poor teacher of doctrines you do not embrace.

An advocate for the Oneness doctrine told me it extends beyond the inherently contradictory doctrine of the trinity; that we are all God; that everything God created is a manifestation of God and is, therefore, God. Not a Pantheon of gods, all existence is one.

 

[civic]

With all due respect, you are a poor teacher of doctrines you do not embrace.

An advocate for the Oneness doctrine told me it extends beyond the inherently contradictory doctrine of the trinity; that we are all God; that everything God created is a manifestation of God and is, therefore, God. Not a Pantheon of gods, all existence is one.

That is your opinion and I would say the same about your misrepresentation of the Trinity.

 

[Wrangler]

That is your opinion and I would say the same about your misrepresentation of the Trinity.

Not sure what you are claiming is my opinion. Seems the Oneness doctrine is a matter of fact not opinion. It is you who are misrepresenting doctrines you do not adhere to. This is at least the 3rd thread where you've done this.

And I am representing the inherently contradictory doctrine of the trinity accurately.

 

[civic]

Not sure what you are claiming is my opinion. Seems the Oneness doctrine is a matter of fact not opinion. It is you who are misrepresenting doctrines you do not adhere to. This is at least the 3rd thread where you've done this.

And I am representing the inherently contradictory doctrine of the trinity accurately.

Do you think the Trinity is 3 gods ? yes or no

 

[Wrangler]

Do you think the Trinity is 3 gods ? yes or no

Like feminism is for equality - except for when it's not. The trinity is 3 gods except for when it is not. It's like a Dr Seuss book. 1 can be 1. 2 can be 1. 3 can be 1. Any number can be 1 but most especially 3.

Many trinitarians do not seem to recognize the blatant contradiction that the trinity MUST be wrong if Jesus is God. In other words, you want short hand of your flawed doctrine to be accepted.

• If the trinity is God then Jesus is, at best, PART of God.
• If Jesus is God, then the trinity is false.

We know you want non-trinitarians to "know what you mean" when you say Jesus is God. Trouble is, trinitarians do not even know what the trinity means and many have come out and admitted it.

In a sermon at a friend's church the intellectual pastor came right out and quoted another who said
The trinity is something no one can understand.
But believing the trinity may be necessary to save you.

I found it remarkably unconvincing and took him to task for it. If you do not understand something, you have no business advocating it as something that is true.

 

[civic]

Like feminism is for equality - except for when it's not. The trinity is 3 gods except for when it is not. It's like a Dr Seuss book. 1 can be 1. 2 can be 1. 3 can be 1. Any number can be 1 but most especially 3.

Many trinitarians do not seem to recognize the blatant contradiction that the trinity MUST be wrong if Jesus is God. In other words, you want short hand of your flawed doctrine to be accepted.

• If the trinity is God then Jesus is, at best, PART of God.
• If Jesus is God, then the trinity is false.

We know you want non-trinitarians to "know what you mean" when you say Jesus is God. Trouble is, trinitarians do not even know what the trinity means and many have come out and admitted it.

In a sermon at a friend's church the intellectual pastor came right out and quoted another who said
The trinity is something no one can understand.
But believing the trinity may be necessary to save you.

I found it remarkably unconvincing and took him to task for it. If you do not understand something, you have no business advocating it as something that is true.

You just proved my point by misrepresenting what we believe . Every reliable source classifies Christianity ( Trinity ) as one of the 3 major monotheistic world religions that affirm One God.

hope this helps !!!

 

[101G]

Any basis to reject invalid doctrine such as the trinity is understandable.

I've learned that when something is wrong, there are often more than one way of identifying why it is wrong. Having that said, it does not necessarily mean the Oneness doctrine is correct either. Still, I must say your trinitarian-centric world view, discussing another world view as it relates to your concentricity.

well at least you acknowledge that the ONENESS Doctrine, as the UPC teaches, is not correct either. so if the trinity, and the Oneness that the UPC teaches, what do you believe?

101G.