What is Evolution ?

[civic]

There is nothing about God's establishing the Sabbath on the seventh day of the earthly week after having created the universe that demands the word "day" in the Genesis creation account to be a 24-hour day.

Sure there is in both Genesis and Exodus which I quoted

 

[e v e]

Was not Christ BORN? ...... and was not that body flesh and bone ... with blood? yes, but upon his death and resurrection changed? scripture, Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

101G.

He changed back to His Nature and Deity, and out of this substandard flesh caused by Adam / Satan / evil realm.
It was a huge step down for Him to be born into this Flesh monstrosity! Regardless of how pretty this body is,
the only reason it seems that way is due to the stolen Eden souls in them. We are prisoners here in the Death Realm.
God explicitly warned adam of Death. Here we are.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC,

He changed back to His Nature and Deity, and out of this substandard flesh caused by Adam / Satan / evil realm.
It was a huge step down for Him to be born into this Flesh monstrosity! Regardless of how pretty this body is,
the only reason it seems that way is due to the stolen Eden souls in them. We are prisoners here in the Death Realm.
God explicitly warned adam of Death. Here we are.

CHANGED BACK? is not God "Spirit?", let;s see, John 4:24 "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." and do not the Lord Jesus have flesh and bone after the resurrection? let's check the record. Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

PICJAG, 101G

 

[civic]

There is nothing about God's establishing the Sabbath on the seventh day of the earthly week after having created the universe that demands the word "day" in the Genesis creation account to be a 24-hour day.

Sure there is in both passages in Genesis and Exodus- 6 literal creation 24 hour days and a 7th day of rest called the Sabbath Day. Its plain as day from Moses below.

Here we see the work week God designed for man to reflect His own work in Creation and the Sabbath Day of resting from that work

Exodus 20:9-11
Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

color coded for easy reading and associating the days and their purpose. God mentions the 7th Day the Sabbath 5 times in 3 verses and mentions 6 days twice

Conclusion: the parallels and comparison is obvious
6 days = the days of creation and man working 6 days.
7th day= the day of rest from working in creation and the work week which is the Sabbath Day.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Jim]

@civic, I will just refer you back to my Reply #166 and leave it at that.

 

[civic]

Let me say a couple of things here. What one chooses to believe concerning the history of the universe is quite up to him. And whether it is a belief in a literal meaning attached to Genesis or not does not determine his salvation. I do not care one way or the other. What I do care about is the attempt by some to think that any literal meaning attached to the Genesis account of creation is any basis for any scientific study. And it certainly should not be presented as having any relation to science or presented as such. It can rightfully be presented and taught as a religious belief or a philosophical approach, but not science.

The problem is once Genesis creation is questioned/ doubted as an accurate and actual historical account that is up for debate within Christianity then what else has God said that becomes questionable and is explained away. I see the same thing done with many of the miracles recorded in the Bible and Noah’s worldwide flood that created all the fossil records in the strata. It never ends and Gods word is no longer Gods word.

 

[Jim]

The problem is once Genesis creation is questioned/ doubted as an accurate and actual historical account that is up for debate within Christianity then what else has God said that becomes questionable and is explained away. I see the same thing done with many of the miracles recorded in the Bible and Noah’s worldwide flood that created all the fossil records in the strata. It never ends and Gods word is no longer Gods word.

Are you telling me that since I disagree with your interpretation of the words "day" and "earth" that I must not believe that God's word is no longer God's word? I certainly hope not. I would be very disappointed in you if that were the case.

Just allow me to state that I find the accomplishments of the various fields of science concerning the natural history of the universe, including the earth, far more compelling than the accomplishments of the YEC in the fields of translation/interpretation of the Hebrew language generally and God's word particularly concerning that same history.

God's word says, "For the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament showeth his handiwork" (Psa 19:1}. I think the YEC make a mockery of that verse.

I think there have been more people driven away from God's word by the YEC position on such things than have ever been drawn into God's word. Maybe that is just me, but I don't think so. I once had a young man say to me, "Do I have to believe that stuff about the universe being only 6000 years old in order to be good Christian?" I suspect you know what my answer was to that young man.

Finally, counter to what you stated there, I do not question/doubt in the least that the Genesis creation account is an accurate and actual historical account, when properly translated/interpreted. In fact, I truly believe that much of what science has discovered about the natural history of the universe within the last 100 years or so was accurately stated some 3500 years ago by God through Moses, when properly translated/interpreted.

 

[FreeInChrist]

thats an oxymoron be definition. both cannot be true.

NINE REASONS WHY THE “DAYS” IN GENESIS 1 MUST BE UNDERSTOOD AS NORMAL (24-HOUR) DAYS​

I will respectfully disagree with you on this but lets assume it may be correct. "that God created heaven and earth in six solar days, that man was created in the sixth day,"

Where is it written that this had to be 144 consecutive hours.....

Just an off the cuff example of what I am hinting at....

Lets say that once we read The First Day... can you prove that the second day did not happen a week or a month later. It still would be the second day only space apart from the first.... or can you prove the third day did not happen decades after the second, etc.etc.etc.

Where do you read the 6, 24 hour days are back to back... and please do not wander past creation week because
after the fall I believe things changed and all bets were off and a sensible calendar of sorts came into being
that was not needed until Adam got the boot.

In fact, how do you know when Gen 2 was written, in a seemingly different way then Gen 1 and we learn of the 7th day of rest andthen they did a recap of the creation week... NOT in the same order if you pay close attention.... it is almost like the Adam story came into being
after the 7th day of rest because here we got the Garden planted by God for him to live in and he got a woman from his side (rib) and they were to live in an extra nice paradise but the man and woman from Gen 1 was told to go take care of the world.... they were made at the same time....

I could go on but wont.....

I just want to know how you know it was 144 consecutive hours, then a 24 hour period of rest, then the creation had to be briefly recapped and was that because no one would remember what happened just a week before...

Sorry... This is a thing with me.

1. The Hebrew word yom, translated “day,” is used more than 2,000 times in the Old Testament. In 95% of these cases, the word clearly means a 24-hour day, or the daylight portion of a 24-hour day. Since this is the way the word is most often used in the Old Testament, it should be understood in this way in Genesis 1 unless there are compelling reasons to prefer some other meaning.
2. God defines what he means by “day” in Genesis 1: “God called the light ‘day’ and the darkness he called ‘night’ ” (Genesis 1:5).
3. The terms “evening” and “morning” make it clear that normal days are being referred to in Genesis 1. These terms are used in Genesis 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31.
4. The numerical qualifier (e.g., “second day,” “third day”) demands a 24-hour day. This usage is found in Genesis 1:5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31, 2:2, 3. The word “day” appears with a number over 200 times in the Old Testament, and in every case the reference is to a literal day.
5. God established the sun and moon “to separate the day from the night,” “to mark seasons and days and years,” and “to govern the day and the night” (Genesis 1:14-18). These passages clearly refer to normal days.
6. The Ten Commandments given to Israel were spoken by God himself, and were also written directly by God in stone (Exodus 20:1, 31:18, 32:16). Within these Ten Commandments, God described his work of creating the universe: “For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy” (Exodus 20:11). Since the Sabbath command is linked in this way to the creation week, the “days” of the creation week must be of the same kind as the “day” Israel was expected to rest.
7. The primary reason some people want to lengthen the “days” of Genesis 1 is to make room for the evolutionary scenario, which requires billions of years. But evolution is simply incompatible with Genesis 1, and stretching the meaning of the word “day” will not accomplish the reconciliation of the creation and evolution worldviews. They are just too different. Consider the following admission by Pattle P. Pun, professor of biology at Wheaton College. (Note: Dr. Pun writes as a theistic evolutionist.)

It is apparent that the most straightforward understanding of the Genesis record, without regard to all the hermeneutical considerations suggested by [evolutionary] science, is that God created heaven and earth in six solar days, that man was created in the sixth day, that death and chaos entered the world after the Fall of Adam and Eve, that all of the fossils were the result of the catastrophic universal deluge which spared only Noah’s family and the animals therewith. (Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation, March 1987, p. 14)

1. In the New American Standard Bible, Genesis 2:4 says: “This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.” Here is an instance where the word “day” does not refer to a 24-hour day. The phrase “in the day that” is a Hebrew idiom meaning “at the time that” or simply “when” (as the phrase is rendered in the New International Version). But this usage does not invalidate our understanding of “day” meaning a 24-hour day (or the light portion thereof) in Genesis 1. In fact, a similar occurrence of this idiom appears in Numbers 7:84 (see NASB margin), which follows twelve literal days of offerings (Numbers 7:12-83).
2. II Peter 3:8 says, “With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.” But this is a simile (a literary device used for comparison) given to help us understand the Lord’s patience, not a hint as to how we should interpret Genesis 1. The word “like” is not the same as an equal sign! Also: the word “day” is unlikely to carry a figurative meaning in Genesis 1 since it appears for the very first time there. Words are used figuratively only after their literal meaning is well established. Richard Niessen

A careful examination of the Hebrew word for “day” and the context in which it appears in Genesis will lead to the conclusion that “day” means a literal, 24-hour period of time. The Hebrew word yom translated into the English “day” can mean more than one thing. It can refer to the 24-hour period of time that it takes for the earth to rotate on its axis (e.g., “there are 24 hours in a day”). It can refer to the period of daylight between dawn and dusk (e.g., “it gets pretty hot during the day but it cools down a bit at night”). And it can refer to an unspecified period of time (e.g., “back in my grandfather's day...”). It is used to refer to a 24-hour period in Genesis 7:11. It is used to refer to the period of daylight between dawn and dusk in Genesis 1:16. And it is used to refer to an unspecified period of time in Genesis 2:4. So, what does it mean in Genesis 1:5-2:2 when it's used in conjunction with ordinal numbers (i.e., the first day, the second day, the third day, the fourth day, the fifth day, the sixth day, and the seventh day)? Are these 24-hour periods or something else? Could yom as it is used here mean an unspecified period of time?

We can determine how yom should be interpreted in Genesis 1:5-2:2 simply by examining the context in which we find the word and then comparing its context with how we see its usage elsewhere in Scripture. By doing this we let Scripture interpret itself. The Hebrew word yom is used 2301 times in the Old Testament. Outside of Genesis 1, yom plus a number (used 410 times) always indicates an ordinary day, i.e., a 24-hour period. The words “evening” and “morning” together (38 times) always indicate an ordinary day. Yom + “evening” or “morning” (23 times) always indicates an ordinary day. Yom + “night” (52 times) always indicates an ordinary day.

The context in which the word yom is used in Genesis 1:5-2:2, describing each day as “the evening and the morning,” makes it quite clear that the author of Genesis meant 24-hour periods. The references to “evening” and “morning” make no sense unless they refer to a literal 24-hour day. This was the standard interpretation of the days of Genesis 1:5-2:2 until the 1800s when a paradigm shift occurred within the scientific community, and the earth's sedimentary strata layers were reinterpreted. Whereas previously the rock layers were interpreted as evidence of Noah's flood, the flood was thrown out by the scientific community and the rock layers were reinterpreted as evidence for an excessively old earth. Some well-meaning but terribly mistaken Christians then sought to reconcile this new anti-flood, anti-biblical interpretation with the Genesis account by reinterpreting yom to mean vast, unspecified periods of time.

The truth is that many of the old-earth interpretations are known to rely upon faulty assumptions. But we must not let the stubborn close-mindedness of scientists influence how we read the Bible. According to Exodus 20:9-11, God used six literal days to create the world in order to serve as a model for man's workweek: work six days, rest one. Certainly God could have created everything in an instant if He wanted to. But apparently He had us in mind even before He made us (on the sixth day) and wanted to provide an example for us to follow.got?

conclusion: evolution and old earth theory are both false. the earth is very young 6,000 years and some change.


hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

I will respectfully disagree with you on this but lets assume it may be correct. "that God created heaven and earth in six solar days, that man was created in the sixth day,"

Where is it written that this had to be 144 consecutive hours.....

Just an off the cuff example of what I am hinting at....

Lets say that once we read The First Day... can you prove that the second day did not happen a week or a month later. It still would be the second day only space apart from the first.... or can you prove the third day did not happen decades after the second, etc.etc.etc.

Where do you read the 6, 24 hour days are back to back... and please do not wander past creation week because
after the fall I believe things changed and all bets were off and a sensible calendar of sorts came into being
that was not needed until Adam got the boot.

In fact, how do you know when Gen 2 was written, in a seemingly different way then Gen 1 and we learn of the 7th day of rest andthen they did a recap of the creation week... NOT in the same order if you pay close attention.... it is almost like the Adam story came into being
after the 7th day of rest because here we got the Garden planted by God for him to live in and he got a woman from his side (rib) and they were to live in an extra nice paradise but the man and woman from Gen 1 was told to go take care of the world.... they were made at the same time....

I could go on but wont.....

I just want to know how you know it was 144 consecutive hours, then a 24 hour period of rest, then the creation had to be briefly recapped and was that because no one would remember what happened just a week before...

Sorry... This is a thing with me.

Sure there is in both passages in Genesis and Exodus- 6 literal creation 24 hour days and a 7th day of rest called the Sabbath Day. Its plain as day from Moses below.

Here we see the work week God designed for man to reflect His own work in Creation and the Sabbath Day of resting from that work.

Below we see it plainly for us to understand what Moses wrote in the law and commandments.

Exodus 20:9-11
Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

color coded for easy reading and associating the days and their purpose. God mentions the 7th Day the Sabbath 5 times in 3 verses and mentions 6 days twice

Conclusion: the parallels and comparison is obvious

6 days = the days of creation and man working 6 days.
7th day= the day of rest from working in creation and the work week which is the Sabbath Day.

hope this helps !!!

 

[FreeInChrist]

Sure there is in both passages in Genesis and Exodus- 6 literal creation 24 hour days and a 7th day of rest called the Sabbath Day. Its plain as day from Moses below.

Here we see the work week God designed for man to reflect His own work in Creation and the Sabbath Day of resting from that work.

Below we see it plainly for us to understand what Moses wrote in the law and commandments.

Exodus 20:9-11
Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns.
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

color coded for easy reading and associating the days and their purpose. God mentions the 7th Day the Sabbath 5 times in 3 verses and mentions 6 days twice

Conclusion: the parallels and comparison is obvious

6 days = the days of creation and man working 6 days.
7th day= the day of rest from working in creation and the work week which is the Sabbath Day.

hope this helps !!!

No help this time.

I do not dispute the Lord made the heavens and earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th... 6, 24 hour days plus i day of rest.

What I see the possibility of is day 1 happened... then some time or a lot of time happened before day two happened.

I am not looking for what occurred down the road in Exodus... I am strictly in Genesis 1 and 2 when things were just beginning.

As I said I do believe it was 6, 24 hour days... but not necessarily 144 straight hours.

That Gen 1... the layout, forming and creating creation could have taken even 6000 years with one day in each of the 1000 year time span.

We were never told we just were told it was 6, 24 hour periods.

Maybe I can explain it with an analogy of sorts.

We have just finished the "regular" season for pro football. The regular season starts on the weekend following the first Monday of September and ends in early January,

That is 4 months about with an average of 30 days each means at least the NFL 120 days long.

But they do not have a scheduled game every day... the 18 game ( including the Bye week) is spaced over these
approx. 120 days.

Meaning Creation week of 6 days could have been spaced over 120 days, or 120 years or 120,000 years.

 

[civic]

No help this time.

I do not dispute the Lord made the heavens and earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th... 6, 24 hour days plus i day of rest.

What I see the possibility of is day 1 happened... then some time or a lot of time happened before day two happened.

I am not looking for what occurred down the road in Exodus... I am strictly in Genesis 1 and 2 when things were just beginning.

As I said I do believe it was 6, 24 hour days... but not necessarily 144 straight hours.

That Gen 1... the layout, forming and creating creation could have taken even 6000 years with one day in each of the 1000 year time span.

We were never told we just were told it was 6, 24 hour periods.

Maybe I can explain it with an analogy of sorts.

We have just finished the "regular" season for pro football. The regular season starts on the weekend following the first Monday of September and ends in early January,

That is 4 months about with an average of 30 days each means at least the NFL 120 days long.

But they do not have a scheduled game every day... the 18 game ( including the Bye week) is spaced over these
approx. 120 days.

Meaning Creation week of 6 days could have been spaced over 120 days, or 120 years or 120,000 years.

Moses said different in the law which I quoted.

Six days
1-God set a literal, rhythmic pattern for human life: “For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them” (Exodus 20:11).

2-The weekly cycle is not arbitrary; it mirrors creation itself (Genesis 2:1-3).

3-Israel practiced this timetable even before Sinai: manna was gathered for six days, none fell on the seventh (Exodus 16:22-30).

4-The same six-day structure undergirds later commands: “For six days you may work, but on the seventh day you must rest” (Exodus 23:12; Deuteronomy 5:13).

5-Exodus 20:9 literally anchors our week: six successive days are ordained for diligent, comprehensive labor, echoing God’s own creative rhythm. Work undertaken during those six days is to be purposeful, wholehearted, and God-honoring, so that a full cessation on the seventh can spotlight the Creator and refresh His people.

6- but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God
The concept of the Sabbath originates in Genesis 2:2-3, where God rested on the seventh day after creation. This day is set apart as holy, emphasizing rest and worship. The Sabbath is a covenant sign between God and Israel (Exodus 31:16-17), symbolizing God's creation and redemption.

7- For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that is in them
This phrase emphasizes the belief in a literal six-day creation period, reflecting the order and power of God as the Creator. It connects to Genesis 1, where the creation account is detailed, underscoring the intentional and structured nature of God's work. The mention of "heavens and the earth" signifies the totality of creation, encompassing everything from the celestial bodies to the terrestrial realm. The inclusion of "the sea and all that is in them" highlights the comprehensive scope of God's creative act, affirming His sovereignty over all life forms and natural elements. This phrase also serves as a foundation for understanding the biblical worldview of creation, contrasting with other ancient Near Eastern creation myths by attributing creation solely to the LORD. but on the seventh day He rested -This phrase introduces the concept of divine rest, which is not due to fatigue but signifies completion and satisfaction with creation. It establishes a pattern for human rest and worship, as seen in Genesis 2:2-3, where God sanctifies the seventh day. The rest here is a cessation from creative work, setting a precedent for the Sabbath.



hope this helps !!!

 

[FreeInChrist]

Moses said different in the law which I quoted.

Six days
1-God set a literal, rhythmic pattern for human life: “For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them” (Exodus 20:11).

2-The weekly cycle is not arbitrary; it mirrors creation itself (Genesis 2:1-3).

3-Israel practiced this timetable even before Sinai: manna was gathered for six days, none fell on the seventh (Exodus 16:22-30).

4-The same six-day structure undergirds later commands: “For six days you may work, but on the seventh day you must rest” (Exodus 23:12; Deuteronomy 5:13).

5-Exodus 20:9 literally anchors our week: six successive days are ordained for diligent, comprehensive labor, echoing God’s own creative rhythm. Work undertaken during those six days is to be purposeful, wholehearted, and God-honoring, so that a full cessation on the seventh can spotlight the Creator and refresh His people.

6- but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God
The concept of the Sabbath originates in Genesis 2:2-3, where God rested on the seventh day after creation. This day is set apart as holy, emphasizing rest and worship. The Sabbath is a covenant sign between God and Israel (Exodus 31:16-17), symbolizing God's creation and redemption.

7- For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth and the sea and all that is in them
This phrase emphasizes the belief in a literal six-day creation period, reflecting the order and power of God as the Creator. It connects to Genesis 1, where the creation account is detailed, underscoring the intentional and structured nature of God's work. The mention of "heavens and the earth" signifies the totality of creation, encompassing everything from the celestial bodies to the terrestrial realm. The inclusion of "the sea and all that is in them" highlights the comprehensive scope of God's creative act, affirming His sovereignty over all life forms and natural elements. This phrase also serves as a foundation for understanding the biblical worldview of creation, contrasting with other ancient Near Eastern creation myths by attributing creation solely to the LORD. but on the seventh day He rested -This phrase introduces the concept of divine rest, which is not due to fatigue but signifies completion and satisfaction with creation. It establishes a pattern for human rest and worship, as seen in Genesis 2:2-3, where God sanctifies the seventh day. The rest here is a cessation from creative work, setting a precedent for the Sabbath.



hope this helps !!!

Sorry @civic.

I see it differently. We will just have to disagree.

 

[civic]

Sorry @civic.

I see it differently. We will just have to disagree.

No worries I take God literally with what He said in the 10 commandments and the Genesis creation account. In both cases thet are saying the exact same thing about the 6 days and the Sabbath Day- the 7th Day.

Gods word say not one jot or tittle will pass away. In Matthew 5:18, where Jesus states, "For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is fulfilled," emphasizing that even the smallest elements of God's law are essential and permanent until its complete fulfillment. "Jot" (Greek: iota) refers to the smallest letter, and "tittle" (Greek: keraia) to a tiny stroke or flourish, highlighting meticulous detail.

hope this helps !!!