Revelation says-Souls are under the alter= symbolism for in Gods memory.
What is death? Is it the absence of life?
- Thread starter Complete
- Start date
Sin is judged already=The wages sin pays is death= paid in full.
e v e
Well-known member
all the 144 died to this world and this body... (not physically but in the sense of rejecting it)
jacob did not which is why he goes to trib. which tells you something about the tongues, gifts and prosperity gospelers - they did not die.
being saved = out of here and meeting Christ upon the clouds...
in the common sense it is simply being promised to Him... there is no 'i am saved' of the protestants.
they , all here, are still in the fallen original sin = this body. it dies, gets ill.
If they were saved which is to be made whole they would be in paradise with God as His actual sons and daughters and not in this creature/ape body.
all here are in the sin situation = this body... which is only undone at the change/rapture.
protestantism is but a created branch of catholicism/vatican theology.
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e v e
Well-known member
the protestant gospel as-is is pure sorcery kjv, 80%, probably more, corrupt. the protestant reformation? utter failure!
but none want to give it up... why?
tradition, family, society, sentimental notions, education by esaus in esaus theology (=kjv), etc..
same which got the ishralites cursed.
notice how God in the sacrifice of isaac touches on this theme... we are to listen to God. not tradition, society, etc.
but none want to give it up... why?
tradition, family, society, sentimental notions, education by esaus in esaus theology (=kjv), etc..
same which got the ishralites cursed.
notice how God in the sacrifice of isaac touches on this theme... we are to listen to God. not tradition, society, etc.
e v e
Well-known member
thats a pretty place to be - in Gods memory = in God
Yes no protestant religion corrected much because they use altered translation. Altered by Catholicism in the 4th century. The JW,s fixed it by Gods will, and corrected translating.
e v e
Well-known member
actually the 'original texts' are all corrupt including septuagint and kjv. Way before 4th C...
Selah
Active member
Hi there, Chris. There are actually two deaths, and in Matthew 10:28, Christ gives us the priority of the two deaths very clear to us:
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Notice in Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 the four expressions, all of which mean "when you die.”
Ecclesiastes 12:6-7 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
When we die, our flesh body dies and our spiritual body returns to God who created it. We need to understand, though, that only Christians will inherit eternal life (the first resurrection to eternal life). If, by the time of the Great White Throne Judgment, you have not accepted Christ, it’s going to be too late. This is referred to as the second death:
Revelation 20:11-15 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
Selah 
Complete
Well-known member
'And fear not them which kill the body,
but are not able to kill the soul:
but rather fear Him
which is able to destroy both soul and body
in hell.' (Gehenna)
(Mat 10:28)
Hello @Selah,
Thank you for responding.
The Bible does tell us of a second death, which takes place in the fire of judgment ('Gehenna' - translated Hell in Matthew 10:28) at the end of the age, as you have indicated. Man can cause loss of life, but only God can destroy it utterly.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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David Koberstein
Active member
Thank you for that response.
Shalom
Jerome had originals=NT they were not corrupt. He told the Catholic leader that Gods name belongs in the NT, but instead that leader told him to remove Gods name from NT and OT. I think they left it in 8 spots of OT. God put his name in over 7000 spots. The Hebrews did not alter Gods written word.
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death?
Shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.
Psalms 89:48.
Clearly the body is placed in a grave. But upon death existence of the soul does not remain in the body and remains in the grave as well. One forgets that God is eternal and exists inside time and also above and separated from its limitations. In death we bury the body. The soul is not buried with it but translates from time to eternity. This consideration is ignored in your interpretations.
Complete
Well-known member
'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.'
(Gen 2:7)
Hello @jeremiah1five,
A person is a living soul, For the soul is the body in which 'the breath of life' or 'spirit' is present. At death when the spirit or breath of life goes back to God Who gave it, the person is dead, and a dead soul. Only the resurrection power of God can quicken that dead soul into life again, and raise him from the dead.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
jeremiah1five
Well-known member
Anything or anyone 'living' comes from God. So, if man became a 'living' soul when before he was only dust of the ground, then the soul comes from God. So, how does something from God - in this case a soul - become eternally separated from Him?
Well, first we must define what the soul is and according to Scripture in many places that one can discern it from a lifeless body - it is mind, intellect, senses, emotions, conscience, and will. And being animated by God because it comes from Him and is added to the body, we can now determine how a soul can be [eternally] separated from God.
Right now, the soul IS separated from God. Let's just say that the Heavenly Tabernacle of which the earthly Tabernacle was fashioned from was buzzing with activity just as the earthly Tabernacle was with a high priest, blood and flesh and incense offering, etc. There are not many references but there is enough to draw out the activity taken place in the Heavenly Tabernacle before God created (first and second) heaven, earth, and man and the bible says so.
The first thing to understand and accept is that God shows Himself saving through covenant. All three salvation covenants in the Hebrew Scripture does show these covenants were made by God and included a Hebrew man and extended in time to his biological seed.
6 And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Gen. 17:6–7.
Now, before I go on, I want to first make sure you understand and accept that this is a covenant between God, Abram the Hebrew, and his Hebrew seed (Sarah was Abraham's niece and wife meaning she was Hebrew also and both from the family of Eber. Abraham's father and Sarai's father were brothers) and accept that there are no non-Hebrews or later, a people identified as non-Hebrew Gentiles in this covenant. Do you see any non-Hebrews or non-Hebrew Gentiles in this covenant?
Yes or No?
e v e
Well-known member
saying it kindly... that i dont follow church fathers. The OT was corrupted long before jerome. not to blame him for his mistakes about that, if he did not know...
Soul= a breathing being. Once not breathing one is no longer a soul. Genesis says he became a living soul, not was given a living soul.
From the writings i read, they say the scribes were super careful to put every single word exact in their versions.
e v e
Well-known member
in hebrew npsh = a living being - body And soul. that was before the fall.
psuche is not npsh as npsh , as things came to be after the fall, only includes the tiny bit of you in this body .. the invisible soul, not including flesh... and the soul here and now is not the body meant by npsh, and not the soul meant by npsh, since the very nature of body and soul was one undivided imperishable soul in eden ...gad we listened to Him and not cooperated with the evil realm...
the soul in eden was the living being... whereas now this body has a different nature and different needs and wants as does the soul. it is the flesh which wars with God... and the flesh whose law is sin and death.
this flesh dies and is the dead body of haggai... and cannot enter eden paradise (being part of death), just as God warned Adam.
at our rapture souls will be restored to the original glorified body made for us in eden - which is not a creature and has no animal nature as this body does have.
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