You should be sure. Especially if you believe one error disqualifies something as prophecy. You're on record stating, "
I don't believe that this prophecy is a prophecy." I agree. It is not a prophecy. If you and I, and others who agree with our appraisal have integrity then we will post in a manner consistent with our stated position. Yes?
I don't think it is a prophecy, because I don't think it is speaking to a specific event. That does not mean it isn't a message from God. That is, God showing someone things that are going to happen, non-specifically, to warn the church. As a prophecy, it is being put forth to speak of Jesus second coming. As a warning from God, telling the church what is to come, not as prophecy. Why? Because it is just an extension of what the Bible already says.
Assuming you agree, comments like, "A lot of people warned these countries not to take them in. Those countries are paying for it now," risk self-contradiction. How? If it is not a prophecy then don't treat it as if anything in it has any merit!
It came true. Now again, it is in line with scripture, which is why it does not have to be prophecy. If God has already said it, and one is expanding on it through scripture, it isn't prophecy.
If it is not a prophecy, then there are only two other alternatives. It can only be either a work of the flesh or an influence of the adversary. It did not come from God.
No there are more than two alternatives. This is fallatious in presentation. You see, you have clearly stated only one option. Works of the flesh are influences of the advesary. What you have done is shut out God, which means that if it is God, you just called God evil. It is best to avoid arguments that say there are only two choices, when you are basing those choices solely on your beliefs, and not on rational thought. Rational thought would realize that it is a bad idea to shut out God. If it turns out to be God, then, because you said there are only two choices and here they are, the choice chosen from those two choices now define God. Please, don't do that.
Sadly, I could not say that in some forums because it would upset some and likely get reported, and then edited out. It would be a fruitless waste of words to post in those forums. Just today I was falsely accused of being a cessationist willfully trying to force a "
cessationist style debate"
(whatever that may be 
) in another forum where I asked a few questions and observed a scripture was being misused. The accusation is absurdly false but that's what those who cannot tolerate well-manner and respectful disagreement do. Despite our eschatological differences, I
want you to have integrity.
If this "prophecy" isn't a prophecy - and that can be objectively demonstrated due to the existence of an error within - then don't give it
any credence.
If you aren't cessationist, that is already a problem. To define cessationism, it is believed that the so called apostolic gifts had the same goals as the miracles Jesus performed. Jesus miracles did not save anyone. Salvation did not result from His miracles, but from His message. The miracles served to certify that what Jesus gave as a message came straight from the Father. For if Jesus did not speak from the Father, as is rationally understood, there is no way the Father would put His stamp of approval on Jesus by allowing Him to perform miracles. The Father would oppose it. The apostolic gifts that have ceased were used to validate the message of the church as being of/from God. Once the church was established in this truth, the gifts were no longer needed.
Where some people get stuck is that a gift is not the direct work of God. A gift is exercised by the person to whom God granted it, by the power of the Holy Spirit. It is not praying to God asking for healing, and then it happens. It is Paul raising that kid from the dead, after he fell asleep during Paul's sermon. It is the man asking for alms and getting more than he asked for. What did the tell this person with the lame hand? Silver and gold have we none, but they gave him what they did have and could do, which was they (not God) healed him by the power of the Holy Spirit. That is what differentiates a gift from an act of God. The gift is exercised by the person it is given by the power of the Holy Spirit. An act of God is God healing, saving, etc. So, there is no gift of tongues today, however, God could still cause someone to speak in tongues, it just wouldn't be a gift. It would be an act of God.
1 Thessalonians 5:19-22
Do not quench the Spirit; do not despise prophetic utterances. But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil.
Prophetic utterances here is preaching, like a preacher would do. This preaching would be unveiling sin in the congregation, and revealing truth through the Holy Spirit, or through scripture. (The revealed truth from the Holy Spirit will ALWAYS be harmonious with scripture.) Do not despise what they say, but examine it. If it is good, hold to it, if it is evil, abstain from it. So, if this so called valres prophecy has truth in it (it does... quite a bit actually) then hold to it. This is where we differ I think. When I say hold to it, I am saying to take it into consideration. It speaks to the direction the world is going in, which is actually in line with Romans 1. That is why I said that this whole "prophecy" could have been the result of the old lady meditating on scriptures that speak of the decline and corruption coming upon the world towards the end. (The end is coming, it isn't something that needs prophecy.)
We don't hold prophecies, or claims thereof, in contempt. We test them. If and when they do not withstand testing then we hold them in contempt. Yes?
Due to cessationism, it isn't necessary to test prophecy. Part of the reason is most of these people who claim prophecy have already been wrong. God has already said that if they are wrong DON'T LISTEN TO THEM. And, he also says to take them out behind the wood shed and disappear them. We don't do that, so the least we can do is not listen to them, and don't give them money when they ask for it.
This is especially critical for modern futurists. This problem poses a potentially greater problem for modern futurists/Dispensational Premillennialists because they are the ones expecting and looking forward to an increase in false prophets!!! That is what the theology teaches but few make much effort to do a scripturally just examination. It's a prophecy! Yay! It's a prophecy about the end times! It's a prophecy about the end times! Yay! Yay!
I don't listen to anyone who says Jesus is coming at such and such a date, or two weeks until the rapture. Peter already said not to listen to them. Could this be about the end times? I think it is, HOWEVER, I believe it speaks more to the environment then to any specific time or event. Hence, not a prophecy. Why? The Bible already speaks of these things, though not as specifically, or in such terms.
Is it?
Maybe it's one of those false prophecies your theology tells you will increase in the latter days
. So you,
@armylngst can be held to a different standard than everyone else in Christendom simply because you're a modern futurist and if you lack the integrity to live up to the structures of your own theology then you provide people like me a reason to make note of the inconsistency.
My theology does not contain "modern day" prophecies. Only those in scripture. However, some people elucidate on these prophecies without changing them. As the end draws near, prophecies define themselves. That is, events will occur that one can clearly link to prophecy. Prophecy isn't really clear until it happens. Especially if it isn't interpreted. I believe that is a pro for literal interpretation. People just can't see that prophecies are becoming literally fulfillable. For instance the two witnesses. How can everyone in the world see them in Jerusalem. Easy. It's in the palm of their hand, it's on the TV in their house through youtube, instagram, tiktok, etc. Technology has made it possible for these prophecies to be literally fulfilled. Is there any longer a reason to believe that God wasn't being literal?
It is not personal. I am simply exploiting your honesty so that your peers might learn. The modern futurists here are divided. You're on the correct side of the matter. All those who aren't modern futurists are not divided. Furthermore, any futurist who dissents from this "prophecy" runs the risk of criticism from their fellow futurists. You're being unfaithful. You're being inconsistent.
Um, those who aren't modern futurist are divided, or you are proving they are false teaching. Don't worry, they are divided. You have preterists and partial preterists. You have amillennialism with preterism and without preterism. (Historical amillennialims, which existed over a millennia before that Jesuit hatched preterism in an attempt to lure protestants back into the Catholic church). Preterism is the ONLY eschatological belief that has ZERO historical tradition. That is, the beliefs and understandings of preterism did not exist in the church until that Jesuit invented preterism during the protestant reformation.
You are damned if you do and damned if you do not.
So, consider yourself hugged. You're on the correct side of this thread. This so called "Valdez prophecy" is making the rounds in some forums and the ensuing discussions are a mess. Few respondents recognize that is evidence against the prophecy, not for it.
Remember, Paul said if it is good, keep to it. This "prophecy" is good, however, part of discernment is understanding how it should be taken. It's a warning sign for rough roads ahead. I feel the pastor is shoe horning it into a prophecy of the end times. Don't throw it out, but take the warning to heart. That part of a great falling out in the church is not only true, it's happening now and it is accelerating. The Bible speaks of it, so it isn't prophecy. It's the great deception. We are so far from our roots, and those who remained close to the roots are a dying breed. (RC Sproul, John MacArthur Jr, etc.) The Bible is not the go to for the church anymore, except for those who are true believers. And even then, the temptation of the world is greater than ever. We are attacked on all sides, and if you believe the truth, you aren't just a minority in the world, you are the minority in what everyone calls the church. Church has been redefined to mean anyone who says, sure I believe in God. Hitler would have been considered a part of the church today if he said, sure I beleive in God. That is all it takes now. The Bible is clear that that is not true. Only a true believer is part of the church.
1 Corinthians 14:4
The one who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but the one who prophesies edifies the church.
There is absolutely no precedent in scripture for an actual prophecy not to be held as prophetic. The Jews may not have liked a prophecy, but they never denied is divine nature. That changed in the NT era because false teachers, false prophets, and false Messiahs increased. The NT writers provided metrics we can apply today and one of them is error and another is edification. All anyone has to do is read through the Valdez prophecy and identify its edification. Does it do that? NO! It openly states the Church (the body of the Lord Jesus the Christ) will decrease. That is the exact opposite of edification (which means "builds up").
The issue is the definition of prophecy. If there is no "Thus saith the Lord" it isn't a prophecy. Prophecy is not just telling the future. In fact, that isn't the goal of prophecy at all. In the Old Testament, prophecy was generally about judgment. God revealing the sin of people, and then proclaiming/preaching/prophesying judgment. Prophecy also revealed truth of God. So, prophecy is too broad a term for the above. That covers a small portion of what prophecy is. It openly states that there will be a falling away. The body of Jesus Christ
is not decreasing. I thought you were a calvinist. Eternal security and all. Those falling away were NEVER SAVED TO BEGIN WITH. John said, they left us to show that they were never part of us, for if they were part of us, they wouldn't leave.
So, I hope you will forgive my exploiting your posts for the sake of exhorting others to examine the "prophecy"
and themselves. This Valdez thing is bait. It has no place in the body of Christ, not even among modern futurists
. You're spot on: this is not prophecy.
It is bait, however, it is also true. So since it is true, read this carefully, take it to heart. Forewarned means one can be prepared. Seal and guard your heart that you endure through the great deception that is not only coming, it may already be here. I'm not sure it is, but one can certainly see the build up. People are now becoming openly, violently against God. Some people get beat up, not just yelled at, for simply saying, let me tell you about Jesus. Or thrown in prison if you are in Europe or Canada.
